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Regardless of whether you think Melanie's response was harsh or not, consider that only an owner who sees the total dispair in their dogs' eyes when there should be a twinkle can truly understand the benefit of meds such as prozac or other. Then decide if it's really worth it to inject humor into a very serious subject. Had the post been about parvo or cancer, I seriously doubt anyone would have thought to crack a joke. That's why it upsets people who do have dogs on prozac....and heck...even husbands. :rolleyes:

 

Maria

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then it is beyond me why you would assume insult and ridicule from me

 

You said, "it sounded like a setup for a joke." It is disingenuous to suggest that Jack & Co. is just reading too much into your post, and bizarre to argue that no one is allowed to be offended by you unless he or she has been previously offended before in a similar fashion.

 

The fact is that dogs can have serious behavior problems that have biological causes -- as can humans. I don't think any of these are "funny." Clinical depression in humans is not funny, nor is obsessive-compulsive disorder, nor is autism. Dogs who try to bite kids, or who live in a constant state of terror, or who destroy property and themselves, due to pathological anxiety, are not funny. Medications like fluoxetine, or amitryptyline are not funny, any more than thyroid medication is funny, or insulin is funny, or chemotherapy is funny. These medications are tools designed to treat medical conditions. And, unlike many other medications (such as painkillers), they are not particularly open to abuse because if an individual does not have a deficiency that they can address, they don't work.

 

In the past, the only choice most owners had for dogs with anxiety problems was euthanasia. Today we have tools that help allow people who want to treat their dogs and keep them in their homes to do so. This is a good thing for owners who love their dogs, and for dogs.

 

If you understand the action of these medications, and the types of conditions that they are appropriate for, all I can ask is, what's funny about that? Honestly?

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You said, "it sounded like a setup for a joke." It is disingenuous to suggest that Jack & Co. is just reading too much into your post, and bizarre to argue that no one is allowed to be offended by you unless he or she has been previously offended before in a similar fashion.

 

The fact is that dogs can have serious behavior problems that have biological causes -- as can humans. I don't think any of these are "funny." Clinical depression in humans is not funny, nor is obsessive-compulsive disorder, nor is autism.

 

If you understand the action of these medications, and the types of conditions that they are appropriate for, all I can ask is, what's funny about that? Honestly?

 

The only, ONLY people suggesting that anyone might find these things funny is you and Jack & Co.

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I have seriously considered giving Tempe prozac or some other drug to help with her manic behavior. She can be neurotic, fearful, timid and manic. At any given time we don't know what will set off the episodes. We have met with some behaviorists and even tried some holistic drug relief. It did not help so now I am considering a more "drastic" solution. We have been told her issues are most likely genetic so drug therapy may not even work but I will most likely give it a try.

 

The only problem I have right now is the fact I was laid off from work and with the economy as it is, who knows when I will find another job so seeing about drugs for Tempe will have to wait for a short time. I am hoping that one of our vets - regular vets or one of the holistic type vets will be willing to help without having to see them and pay for another visit otherwise yes Tempe's issues will have to wait.

 

Luckily, at home she is pretty normal most days. Being in public is a whole other story.

 

If you think prozac or some other drug will help then do it.

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The only, ONLY people suggesting that anyone might find these things funny is you and Jack & Co.

 

Melanie and Jack & Co. were making a comparison, an analogy, to help you understand why making jokes about dogs who may require SSRIs or TCAs to live more normal lives is inappropriate and downright offensive to many of us here. It is not that Melanie and Jack & Co. lack a sense of humor (best defense is a good offense, I suppose, though this isn't particularly a good offense). It is that they are comparing dogs who may require prozac with people who may require chemotherapy (or SSRIs to treat clinical depression, etc.) as these are treatments for miserable, potentially lethal medical conditions. So neither is appropriate to joke about with strangers. You wouldn't joke about chemotherapy with someone who fears she may have cancer, would you? This is not any different to the people who require these drugs for their dogs' medical conditions.

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Melanie and Jack & Co. were making a comparison, an analogy, to help you understand why making jokes about dogs who may require SSRIs or TCAs to live more normal lives is inappropriate and downright offensive to many of us here. It is not that Melanie and Jack & Co. lack a sense of humor (best defense is a good offense, I suppose, though this isn't particularly a good offense.) It is that they are comparing dogs who may require prozac with people who may require chemotherapy (or SSRIs to treat clinical depression, etc.) as these are treatments for miserable, potential lethal medical conditions. So neither is appropriate to joke about with strangers. You wouldn't joke about chemotherapy with someone who fears she may have cancer, would you? This is not any different to the people who require these drugs for their dogs' medical conditions.

 

It is innappropriate to make jokes about severe medical conditions to those who have to deal with it, and I understand that completely. But is it any more appropriate to insult and ridicule someone who didn't understand that?

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Who didn't understand it? The OP asked about prozac for her dog's anxiety and aggression issues. What's the mystery?

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Who didn't understand it? The OP asked about prozac for her dog's anxiety and aggression issues. What's the mystery?

 

Go back and read desertrangers comment and SoloRiver's reply. There's no mystery, SoloRiver insults DR repeatedly.

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I've read both. I saw desertranger's derision thinly veiled as humor, and I applaud Melanie for calling him on it.

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I've read both. I saw desertranger's derision thinly veiled as humor, and I applaud Melanie for calling him on it.

 

You're entitled to think that her sarcasm and scorn for desertranger is somehow helpful to anybody, and you may applaud her if you like. But it offends me.

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That's fine. Your own scorn ("somehow helpful to anybody") offends me. It's completely irrelevant, but whatever.

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My Girl:

 

Well after reading the posts so far I have to say I'm sorry that some people feel it is necessary to chime in with useless information and that as adults we can't all seem to recognize a serious issue when we read one. There are times for jokes and times when it is inappropriate, this isn't 6th grade people!! If you don't have something intelligent or useful to say, don't post. If you want to post a joke do it in another forum, Coffee Break for instance. There is such a difference in someone who is sick making a joke about themselves as opposed to a total stranger making a joke about something serious when someone has the guts to ask for advice on a topic that, yes, is still very taboo in many circles, animal and human.

 

I agree with everything Melanie has said. My dog has thunderstorm phobia, she was fine the first year and a half, storms and noise didn't bother her. Then it came out of the blue one Sept. day. Thanks to Melanie and everything I read about her and her dog Solo I contacted Dr. Overall who recommended a vet who was board certified in behavior and located in my state. My dog was put on medication with a behavior protocol. You really do need both to be as effective as you can. The reason is you can try behavior modification or training all you want, but if your dog is in the middle of a panic attack, which is what they are experiencing, nothing is going to get through to them. The medication allows for the panic not to reach the higher levels so that the dog has the ability to experience and process the behavior modification plan and start to have a different experience during the triggering event. Melanie can probably explain this much better than I can if this didn't make any sense.

 

Remember though that like in humans these medications for the brain whether it is for mental illness, anxiety or depression all work differently for each person and in this case each dog. So you may try one and need to adjust the dosage and possibly even try a different one to find what works for your dog. It can take time and it can get frustrating. But I think Melanie and Solo are great testaments to what is possible when you find the dose and med that works.

 

People tell me things like "ignore her during storms", "don't baby her she'll get over it on her own". Oh yeah really, gee thanks. Is that before or after she goes through a plate glass window? Remember the people that make these comments don't have to live with your dog and see her react the way you do. You will most likely run into comments like those for your situation. You obviously care very much about your dog and want to help in any way you can. I hope you find something that will help your dog. If you have questions I hope you do ask, as you have seen from some of the posters here there are many of us that have been where you are and understand that there is not an easy fix to an issue like this and it is a very serious one.

SJ

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While I think DR is a little out there, by the same token I think Malanie has 'jumped the couch' as they say. While DR's comment was a little flippant, I don't think it should have garnered the attack that has ensued. While I appreciate the special needs of some dogs, and am not opposed to alternative meds./therapy, at the end of the day they are dogs. Melanie, Solo is a dog, not Jackson Pollock.

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At any given time we don't know what will set off the episodes.

Hmm...kind of like posting a reply here sometimes. You never know when you're going to say something wrong and start a huge battle, complete with name calling and taking sides. That's really sad.

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That is the question of the day, isn't it. And if you've never had anyone offer any criticism, and never had anyone laugh at you for your care of your dog, then it is beyond me why you would assume insult and ridicule from me, when I've offered nothing of the sort.

Amelia,

 

Thank you for your reply,I have taken my Border Collie to the vet and had a complete blood panel run to rule out anything. I thought she might have a low tyroid and her test came back fine.

 

I hope i didnt start something on this site, it is very useful to me. I have had these issues for so long and I can see the anxiety building in my dog . So when the vet told me this is a good option for her I thought I would see if anyone else has gone this route.

 

I do love my dog but I dont want to live on pins and needles either when she will attack one of my other dogs or someone else.

 

Again she can be the sweetest dog,then someting clicks and personality changes

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We just had blood taken to get all the tests done on Friday. Kya has changed into a dog I don't know in the past 8 weeks. She is only 2.

 

She goes off in a heartbeat and is loving the next. She attacks the other dogs and then can't play enough. It breaks my heart to see her going through this and that is why we will be doing what we can to help her. The vet has suggested Alprazolam (Xanax) and if that is what she has to take to cope so be it.

 

 

I have friends who disagree with our decision to give her drugs but I don't care. I didn't bring her into our family to give up on her either. It is my responsibility as a pet owner to care for her and that I will.

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I just want to add my .02 to the treatments available for challenged dogs in this day and age.

I have such a challenged dog and without meds, he would not be here today.

Through rescue we have helped many dogs through the Tufts behaviorists and medications and behavior modification. It is amazing how positive the results have been for these dogs who would have no quality of life or a life without them. For those without a nearby behaviorist, Tufts offers a petfax program with lots of good follow-up through e-mail. The doctors there have been extremely helpful.

 

I adore Jean Donaldson and have been to a few of her seminars over the past few years. One of the best things she says and I apologize if I am misquoting, is said in jest yet not far from the truth - "drugs should be in the water!"

 

I think especially for the border collies - their sound sensitivities and noise phobias are so real. There is no behavior modification alone that can help that. There is a part of them that we can't reach until they get some real physical changes happening in their little brains/bodies. Until you can see a dog go from wanting to launch through a window to being able to quietly be by your side during a storm/garbage truck/back-up-beepy noise you may not be able to fully understand how wonderful and helpful they can be.

 

Our boy was extremely aggressive to other people/other dogs. We had no place to start desensitizing as the distance he began reacting at was great. He had absolutely no "thinking" part of his brain at seeing a speck of a person/dog a parking lot away. He needed a beta-blocker to dull his fight/flight response. A dose a couple of hours before our desensitizing sessions made all the difference in the world to him. Without that simple drug we were lost.

 

I'm not a scientist/medical person by any stretch, yet I've seen the benefit and heard of the benefit so many times it cannot be ignored as a very real treatment to a very real problem.

 

And the dogs don't become walking zombies - far from that - they are able to settle, listen, watch, and learn - sometimes for the first time in their lives. Their frantic antics that get them "nowhere good" meld away and you can see the "normal" dog within! It is miraculous to say the least. There is nothing more heartwrenching than seeing a dog all in a frenzy over something that is beyond his/her inner control or your external assistance.

 

I am very grateful that there are some wonderful things out there that are now available for our best friends. I wish everyone the best as they work through their issues - it will only get better with the right help - bless you and thank you!

 

Please keep us posted on your progress. I think we can all learn lots more here together and it can only help.

 

 

Kathy

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Has anyone used anixety pills for their dogs

 

I give Dean clomipramine for his noise phobia/general anxiety/separation anxiety.

 

While it has not "fixed" everything, it has helped him a lot. The general anxiety and separation anxiety did disappear and the noise phobia is much, much, much better. I can do training with him now that his thresholds are lower.

 

If the vet thinks medication is a good idea, it's worth a try.

 

I was really, really nervous about side effects, but he did just fine. I do have concerns about long term effects (as I do with any medication that I, or my dogs take), but his quality of life would suffer too much if I were to choose not to give it to him.

 

I hope you find something that will help.

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Kathy Chittenden--very well put. We all wish my girl nothing but success and hope to see encouraging updates posted soon. No dog should have to suffer from such debilitating and potentially life threatening anxiety.

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Sometimes it's helpful to just ignore things that you find out of place. Otherwise we end up with 3 pages of snarking back and forth, and that's REALLY not productive for the person asking the question. Personally, I have three dogs with issues of different kinds - dog aggression, fear aggression, and aggression when handled (what would you call that?), and, hey, I laughed. Sometimes humor HELPS during serious situations. Sometimes you just have to laugh to keep from crying (nice cliche there, huh?)

 

For the OP, my boy with dog aggression is similiar to your dog's reaction with other dogs, though it's a LITTLE easier to predict. He's 99% fine with three of my boys, but is having serious problems with the newest addition. He can also sometimes be reactive with dogs that are not members of his pack. He also will redirect frustration into aggression towards a "low-man" dog if they're nearby.

 

He's been on meds for about a year, and we've walked up the ladder of medications. We started with Clomicalm/clomipramine, and it really didn't help at all. Prozac worked for a little while, but after about a month or so, it stopped helping. He's been on Xanax since about June of '08. It worked really well for the first couple of months, and then we needed to bump up his dosage a bit. Is he "fixed"? No. Is he much better and much more predictable? Absolutely. Until he started having problems with Tweed, he was hardly ever reacting. Now it's still mainly only happening with Tweed and isn't affecting his interaction with the other dogs, my own, fosters, or others he meets.

 

I haven't seen any lethargy or dopiness on any of the three medications. Honestly, he's really been free of side effects entirely, at least so far.

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I put my 4 1/2 yr old on prozac about 6 weeks ago. While she has come a long way with training (and being spoiled rotten), I came to believe that the quality of her life would be better if she experienced less anxiety on a day to day basis. It was the right decision. It certainly hasn't been a cure-all, but there's less "edge"--she less reactive in general AND therefore easier to focus on me when I want her to come or wait or sit or whatever.

 

There have been few side effects apart from some stomach upset the first couple of weeks (gas and a little loose stool). I used a little pepcid, but what really helped was breaking the pill in half and giving 1/2 in the morning about 10 min after her food and the same in the evening.

 

Good luck with your dog--

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We just had blood taken to get all the tests done on Friday. Kya has changed into a dog I don't know in the past 8 weeks. She is only 2.

 

She goes off in a heartbeat and is loving the next. She attacks the other dogs and then can't play enough. It breaks my heart to see her going through this and that is why we will be doing what we can to help her. The vet has suggested Alprazolam (Xanax) and if that is what she has to take to cope so be it.

I have friends who disagree with our decision to give her drugs but I don't care. I didn't bring her into our family to give up on her either. It is my responsibility as a pet owner to care for her and that I will.

 

 

Hi! Sorry I don't see your name on your post. Unfortunately, it is pretty common for behavioral problems to surface at "social maturity" which can be anywhere from 15 months to 24 months of age so it is not surprising that you are seeing these issues at two. My own dog developed the most serious of her behavorial issues at about 20 months.

 

I would suggest to you the Control Unleashed Book, you can purchase that at dogwise.com. The book uses positive reinforcement to develop valuable tools for your dog to use to deal with the world. These techniques have helped my dog immensely. There is also a Control Unleashed support group on Yahoo Groups that you can join.

 

Unfortunately after three years of training and behavioral work I am now at the point with my own dog issues where I am considering medication. My vet is a registered Homeopath and we are going to try homepathic support first before resorting to conventional medications. I will not hesitate to try conventional medication in the future though if a homeopathic approach is unsuccessful. I have strictly used training to attempt to modify the behavior before now. My dog's behavioral problem is genetic and prevalent in her lines and I have been unable to completely alter her behavior through training.

 

I commend you for sticking by your dog and doing whatever you can to help her. I would strongly suggest joining the Control Unleashed group and purchasing the book. You will find a lot of support and people dealing with similar problems on the group.

 

Best of luck with your girl.

 

Jen Shipley

Flute, Enna and Fever

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We just had blood taken to get all the tests done on Friday. Kya has changed into a dog I don't know in the past 8 weeks. She is only 2.

 

She goes off in a heartbeat and is loving the next. She attacks the other dogs and then can't play enough. It breaks my heart to see her going through this and that is why we will be doing what we can to help her. The vet has suggested Alprazolam (Xanax) and if that is what she has to take to cope so be it.

I have friends who disagree with our decision to give her drugs but I don't care. I didn't bring her into our family to give up on her either. It is my responsibility as a pet owner to care for her and that I will.

Hi! Sorry I don't see your name on your post. Unfortunately, it is pretty common for behavioral problems to surface at "social maturity" which can be anywhere from 15 months to 24 months of age so it is not surprising that you are seeing these issues at two. My own dog developed the most serious of her behavorial issues at about 20 months.

 

I would suggest to you the Control Unleashed Book, you can purchase that at dogwise.com. The book uses positive reinforcement to develop valuable tools for your dog to use to deal with the world. These techniques have helped my dog immensely. There is also a Control Unleashed support group on Yahoo Groups that you can join.

 

Unfortunately after three years of training and behavioral work I am now at the point with my own dog issues where I am considering medication. My vet is a registered Homeopath and we are going to try homepathic support first before resorting to conventional medications. I will not hesitate to try conventional medication in the future though if a homeopathic approach is unsuccessful. I have strictly used training to attempt to modify the behavior before now. My dog's behavioral problem is genetic and prevalent in her lines and I have been unable to completely alter her behavior through training.

 

I commend you for sticking by your dog and doing whatever you can to help her. I would strongly suggest joining the Control Unleashed group and purchasing the book. You will find a lot of support and people dealing with similar problems on the group.

 

Best of luck with your girl.

 

Jen Shipley

Flute, Enna and Fever

My dog has been on the Prozac now for about four days and I cant believe the improvement in her. She is happy and relaxed and seems alot more happy and less stressed. I have not been able to feed my dogs together since I got her as a puppy now they all able to eat together and she even lays down to eat her food!!!!

 

She plays alot more with my other dogs playing ball and tug of war etc. She always did heavy breathing all night when she slept at night that has stopped to. So that must have been because of anxiety? Everyone in our house is commenting how good she is!!!

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