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I have a border collie that has had anxiety and aggression issues since four months old. I have taken her to local obeidence classes that didnt work issues with dogs in class.Now i am seeing a behaivoral specialist comes to my house and she has been working with her.I have issues with her being dog aggressive, now she has decided to be aggressive with kids.She also had food aggression I have fixed that pretty much so its better.

 

Its is like she has a split personality on her,she can be sittong in the living room then she will start staring at my dogs then turn on them I try to break it up she growls at me.Then five minutes later shes fine and friends again with my dogs.

 

Now she does not like me to hug or hold her? Small growls and grumbling when hold her

 

Went and did blood test and urine test everything was fine. He thinks prozac might help with anxiety and aggression.

 

Has anyone used anixety pills for their dogs

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I have given one of my Border Collies Prozac when she had a lick granuloma and it stopped her from licking that spot. I don't remember if it changed her overall personality. I will say she had no negative effects from taking the Prozac.

 

I have wanted to try it on my 3 year old Border Collie who for no reason at will jump on my other dogs. Let us know if it works for your dog.

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I have a border collie that has had anxiety and aggression issues since four months old. I have taken her to local obeidence classes that didnt work issues with dogs in class.Now i am seeing a behaivoral specialist comes to my house and she has been working with her.I have issues with her being dog aggressive, now she has decided to be aggressive with kids.She also had food aggression I have fixed that pretty much so its better.

 

Its is like she has a split personality on her,she can be sittong in the living room then she will start staring at my dogs then turn on them I try to break it up she growls at me.Then five minutes later shes fine and friends again with my dogs.

 

Now she does not like me to hug or hold her? Small growls and grumbling when hold her

 

Went and did blood test and urine test everything was fine. He thinks prozac might help with anxiety and aggression.

 

Has anyone used anixety pills for their dogs

I have never used Prozac but I have used Xanax with really good results. I had a couple of dogs with severe thunderphobia and that stuff was like a miracle. Didn't put them to sleep - they just didn't care any more. But you have to be careful because of those drugs - like valium and ace - will make an agressive dog even more agressive.

 

Honestly, if I had a dog with problems that were that severe i think I would give the prozac a chance.

 

My last four border collies were all rescues with emotional problems due to all kinds of things. That is miserable to try and deal with. And it was my experience that those problems didn't improve much over time.

 

Gosh, good luck.

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Has anyone used anixety pills for their dogs

 

Not on any of my personal dogs, but I did use anxiety meds on a foster dog with lots of issues (mental and physical). We never used Prozac, but he was on Zoloft for a while. It seemed to work for the first couple of weeks and I was really hopeful. But, then it seemed to lose it's effectiveness. That was pretty much the story with every drug we tried on this dog. Upping dosages didn't work either. He just became more and more "drunk" but was still neurotic. He had a lot of issues, though, and I believe that his physical and mental issues were tightly related. He had uncontrolled epilepsy. I suspected that he may be having subclinical seizures throughout the day and night, which led to his anxiety and really wierd behavior. Eventually, he would start having clinical, tonic-clonic seizures and we would usually have to take him to the E-vet. So, my experience with anti-anxiety meds is probably not typical.

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If I were you I'd book an appointment with a vet that specializes in behavioral meds, most are "veterinary behaviorists". There are so many developments in the field that you really should be working with someone who knows all the ins and outs of what's available to ensure you find the right fit for your dog. Prozac seems to be the go to choice for a lot of vets since they just came out with a version specifically for dogs, but it's not a cure all, and it's not the only drug available.

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I use clomiprimine for Shoshone. It made a noticeable difference in her anxiety levels, especilly around people, but with our other dogs as well. I tried to lower her dosage a couple months ago, thinking I could save a few bucks. Nope, nada, no way. Back up she went.

 

Our vet has the generic, the trademark name is Clomicalm and it's more expensive that way.

 

I second Erin's advice - a veterinary behaviorist is what you need now. Any trainer can call themselves a behaviorist, but when you're talking about medication, you want an expert, someone with the medical background to make such decisions.

 

Good luck with your girl,

 

Ruth

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Reminds me of an old Saturday Night Live sketch for your dogs.

 

Your dog too lazy? Can't seem to get him to get up and go? Try new Puppy Uppers. And for when your dog won't slow down try Doggie Downers.

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My aussie who I found abandoned in the national forest has been on amytriptiline, under the guidance of a vet/behaviorist while we worked on a program to help him cope with some of his issues. I didn't see any side effects and it did raise the threshold of his reactivity so I was able to use other behavior modification techniques to help him. If you do a search here for "psychotropic meds" you'll probably find a wealth of info and experiences.

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Hi desertranger,

 

Thanks so much for that totally unhelpful contribution to the discussion. Do you have something meaningful to contribute, or is your point solely to passively-aggressively imply that everyone here is an irresponsible, lazy dog owner but you? You've never had a dog with real issues -- have you? Yeah, I didn't think so. Or lemme guess: you are sure that you have, but you are also sure that you fixed that dog purely out of your enormous personal talent and dog-handling capabilities? And that therefore medical therapy could not possibly be relevant to anyone else's situation or beneficial for anyone else's dogs? So original. I've NEVER heard that one before.

 

Anyway.

 

The brain is an organ like any other, and abnormalities in brain chemistry that may contribute to behavioral problems often lend themselves to drug treatment that helps restore normal function. I think of it as analogous to insulin treatment for diabetes. Tri-cyclic antidepressants (TCAs, like amitryptyline -- generic for Elavil) and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs, which is what fluoxetine is -- generic for Prozac) are not uppers and they are not downers. Their purpose is to normalize brain neurotransmitter levels by basically either supplementing what is lacking, or preventing the brain from using up what it has.

 

I have noticed that people are totally OK with treating some biologically based behavioral problems, like hypothyroidism, with drugs while at the same time being totally against treating others if they call for drugs like TCAs or SSRIs. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. The brain is just an organ, and unless you truly believe that none of a dog's behavior is innate and that training fixes everything it is patently ridiculous to take the position that certain behavioral pathologies should not be treated with appropriate and available medications. Unless, of course, you are a sadist who likes watching dogs suffer. Yep. I did just say that.

 

Behavioral meds should be prescribed, whenever possible, by board certified veterinary behaviorists. If there isn't one available, some will consult long distance and devise treatment regimens in conjunction with your primary care vet. Treatment with fluoxetine or any other SSRI isn't going to magically fix behavioral problems, and whatever issues your dog has now, he'll probably still have on the meds. And whatever his "normal" is, how he is when he feels comfortable and secure and non-reactive, probably won't change, or at least it didn't for my dog. The difference is that, if the medication he's taking is appropriate (in other words, if it actually addresses the problem that your dog has) he'll be able to keep his shit together in more contexts -- in other words, his thresholds will be higher so he can pretend to be normal more of the time. This gives you a foot in the door to implement behavior mod (i.e., training) that would have been otherwise impossible. A good behaviorist will give you an extensive behavior mod regimen to follow and compliance greatly improves outcomes.

 

Dogs with anxiety and aggression problems are typically very insecure dogs who are very bad at reading context and see threats where none exist. None of the behaviors that they exhibit, for the most part, are truly abnormal -- it is totally normal for a dog to growl or snap or flee when he is threatened. The problem with the pathologically anxious dogs is that they see threats where none exist. This is not a nice way to live. I have seen too many dogs forced to live their lives in states of constant terror and anxiety because their owners refused to take advantage of available medical treatments. There are a lot of people out there who think drugs like Prozac are "icky" and won't give them to their dogs. I personally believe that withholding treatment from dogs like this is inhumane.

 

I have a dog who has taken a combo therapy of fluoxetine and amitryptyline for several years. He lives a full, happy life and appears totally unremarkable to most people. He has competed in agility, worked sheep, and accompanied me on moves cross country, seen me through a couple of loser boyfriends and then my wedding last fall, and helped me raise a nice, well-rounded puppy who has excellent manners around other dogs. I have tried to take him off the meds, but his demons start creeping back and he becomes scared of the world again. I won't do that to him. If the drugs are what he needs to be normal, that's what he'll get, and I don't mind giving them to him. Frankly, if he couldn't take these drugs, he'd be better off dead. If I refused to give him the medications he needs to live a normal life, I'd be a bad dog owner.

 

I don't think this dog is better off dead.

 

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Don't let people who don't know what they're talking about deter you from finding appropriate treatment for your dog. Pharmacological treatment may or may not help your dog, but it's important to remain open-minded about these things. We know so much more about the biological basis of behavior now than we did in the past, and it makes sense to take advantage of advances in our understanding to treat dogs and help them remain in homes, particularly when they have compassionate and dedicated owners who are likely to comply with follow-up and behavior modification regimens.

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Thanks so much for that totally unhelpful contribution to the discussion. Do you have something meaningful to contribute, or is your point solely to passively-aggressively imply that everyone here is an irresponsible, lazy dog owner but you? You've never had a dog with real issues -- have you? Yeah, I didn't think so. Or lemme guess: you are sure that you have, but you are also sure that you fixed that dog purely out of your enormous personal talent and dog-handling capabilities? And that therefore medical therapy could not possibly be relevant to anyone else's situation or beneficial for anyone else's dogs? So original. I've NEVER heard that one before.

 

 

 

Have you no sense of humor? Are you so seriously involved with your dogs emotional problems not to be able to take time to laugh or even smile. You assume too much when you say "You've never had a dog with real issues -- have you? Yeah, I didn't think so" Don't forget what happen to people who assume.

 

[sarcasm] Wait a minute. I'll make an assumption. You've never run in to the class clown have you? I didn't think so. Glad to meet ya'.[/sarcasm]

 

There was no offense offered but you decided to take one anyway.

 

 

non-sequiter: You have a very pretty dog.

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Like I said, do you have something meaningful to contribute?

 

I have a great sense of humor. The problem is, what you said wasn't funny.

 

The point is that this is a serious issue (that is, if you care about your dogs) and that it is Totally. Not. Helpful. for people to make jokes or imply that owners of these dogs are merely seeking a quick fix. This may be news to you, but those of us who are in that position have heard the "joke" about a zillion times already, it wasn't funny the first time, it wasn't funny the second time, and it still isn't funny. And you may think you are very funny, but you are not very original.

 

The vast majority of people I have known who were willing and interested enough to consider medical treatments for their dogs' biologically-based behavioral problems are, quite to the contrary, extremely passionate and dedicated to their dogs, and many of them have tried literally everything else possible to help their dogs. They have to deal, constantly, with the accusations that they are just making it all up and that if they would just take a "firm hand" a little bit of training would make all those problems magically go away, that they are lazy, and looking for an easy way out. (This is really laughable if you know anything about behavioral med and behavior mod regimens and how much work is involved.) You may think it's OK to be snide and accusatory, as long as you wink and grin at the same time. But still. It gets old. Fast.

 

I would hate to see anyone discouraged from helping his or her dog and that is why I react strongly to posts like yours. They are not constructive and may be harmful.

 

Have a nice day.

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My BC mix takes prozac for his global fear. It has helped tremendously. It has also helped to keep him busy, trained, and socialized. We do agility. He had no interest in the sheep and I think the sheep knew it. He takes the generic prozac that I purchase for $4.00 or $6.00 a month at Target pharmacy. The vet brand is very expensive - ask for a generic prescription that you can have filled at your pharmacy. I give the pill to my pup on a spoon in a yogurt/peanut butter mixture for easy administration. He takes Xanax for really scary things like storms/fireworks. Prozac is also used in the human prison population for people with problems controlling anger and aggression - works very well. It was one of the first SSRIs developed initially used for depression, but treats a variety of psychological problems by increasing serotonin levels in the brain. A vet behaviorist is a good idea.

 

Mel

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Thank you, Melanie, for pointing out the seriousness of these kinds of issues. It's not too funny when you realize that your dog has broken his teeth off because of his separation anxiety.

 

We are working with a vet behaviorist and Jack is taking clomipramine twice a day. I get the pills at Walmart and they are quite reasonable. Our goal is to help him regain his confidence through behavior modification and eventually wean him off the medication. It has made a big difference. Melanie's description of how the meds work is very helpful.

 

This is a great board, desertranger, and it has been invaluable to me through the years. Take the time to read the posts and learn about the members, some of whom have been members for 10+ years, and are true BC experts. I think it pays to ease your way into the community instead of jumping in with lots of big splashes.

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Thank you, Melanie, for pointing out the seriousness of these kinds of issues. It's not too funny when you realize that your dog has broken his teeth off because of his separation anxiety.

 

We are working with a vet behaviorist and Jack is taking clomipramine twice a day. I get the pills at Walmart and they are quite reasonable. Our goal is to help him regain his confidence through behavior modification and eventually wean him off the medication. It has made a big difference. Melanie's description of how the meds work is very helpful.

 

This is a great board, desertranger, and it has been invaluable to me through the years. Take the time to read the posts and learn about the members, some of whom have been members for 10+ years, and are true BC experts. I think it pays to ease your way into the community instead of jumping in with lots of big splashes.

 

Bravo and extremely well-put, Soloriver and Jack & Co.

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I don't usually like to stick my nose into stuff, but it seems as though perhaps desertranger may have pushed a button unintentionally? The response to his remark seems to have been unusually harsh. Sometimes it's hard to interpret intention and sincerity through the written word, especially when one person is being flippant while others are serious. But it doesn't seem as though desertranger intended any criticism of this board, the people on it, and especially my girl's serious concerns about her dog's health and peace of mind. His reaction was much as mine was when reading about giving a dog medication that is typically associated with humans, namely "this sounds like the setup for a joke". Maybe he shouldn't have been so imprudent as to post this irrelevency, but does that really merit the chewing out he received?

 

Would you treat your dog like that? Why treat him like that? He's here to learn and share in the mutual passion for our dogs, just like you.

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His reaction was much as mine was when reading about giving a dog medication that is typically associated with humans, namely "this sounds like the setup for a joke".

 

I don't find the word "Prozac" a set up for a joke at all. I'm grateful that veterinary medicine is advancing at such rates that drugs that are successful in treating humans are equally as valuable in dogs. Both my veterinarian and the vet behaviorist are thrilled that these options are available for anxious dogs. In Jack's case, the drug isn't the only part of his treatment, the behaviorist gave us specific behavior modifications to implement also.

 

I certainly hope that you don't think that a human on Prozac is laugh-worthy.

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I don't usually like to stick my nose into stuff, but it seems as though perhaps desertranger may have pushed a button unintentionally? The response to his remark seems to have been unusually harsh. Sometimes it's hard to interpret intention and sincerity through the written word, especially when one person is being flippant while others are serious. But it doesn't seem as though desertranger intended any criticism of this board, the people on it, and especially my girl's serious concerns about her dog's health and peace of mind. His reaction was much as mine was when reading about giving a dog medication that is typically associated with humans, namely "this sounds like the setup for a joke". Maybe he shouldn't have been so imprudent as to post this irrelevency, but does that really merit the chewing out he received?

 

Would you treat your dog like that? Why treat him like that? He's here to learn and share in the mutual passion for our dogs, just like you.

I agree! Lighten up people! :D I remember that SNL skit--it was funny. Geez! I don't think desertranger was trying to downplay the seriousness of this issue. Since when can't someone interject a little humor without getting chastised? It's just this kind of reaction that keeps some people "lurking" forever without posting. (Bracing for the backlash.....) :rolleyes:

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I did not experience desertranger's post as "laughing at" the original poster. I took it as an off-the-cuff recollection of an amusing skit from SNL. I remember it too---it was silly and fun.

 

I don't happen to believe that dogs having biologically based anxiety/behavioral issues is "funny"---of course not, the animal is distressed, and as a result, the humans who care for them can experience distress.

 

But, sometimes that taking even very distressing health issues (or any other challenge) and finding a moment to look at it in a less serious light can be okay. Even the serious, weighty problems of the world can be funny.

 

My friend's fighting a nasty lymphoma which will likely be life-ending. She cracks jokes about her PET scans..."Yay! The doctor said they found no pets on my last PET scan! Not even a hamster!". Does it mean her cancer isn't serious? Of course not.

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This thread was started by someone who is dealing with serious aggression issues in a beloved dog and working very hard to try and solve them. The dog is aggressive around food, toward children, and toward its owner. Yeah, a really hilarious situation, isn't it?

 

Behavioral issues are the number one reason that dogs lose homes. I don't know if there are stats on reasons for euthanasia, but it is a pretty good bet that they are right up there in that list too.

 

Aggression is often a lethal condition for dogs. Dogs who are not rehabilitated usually end up dead.

 

If the original poster had started out with "my dog has parvo," no one would have thought it was a laughing matter because everyone knows that parvo kills. Well, aggression kills. The point is that the subject, and the original poster, deserve at least that much respect. The OP loves his or her dog and is trying to find a solution so that this dog can stay in the home. Trust me, this is an issue that leads to tears, sleepless nights, fights with friends and loved ones. It isn't an appropriate topic for humor.

 

I personally don't care if you think I need to lighten up. And if you thought what I said was harsh, you haven't seen harsh.

 

It's one thing to make jokes about your own condition, and quite another to make jokes about someone else's. It's kind of like how I can complain about my own mom, but my friend better not complain about my mom. Or how, say, you can make fat jokes about yourself, but it's not OK for me to make fat jokes about you. Really, it's about how considerate people treat one another in normal society. What is it about behavioral problems that makes people think all the rules are off the table? Have some consideration, people.

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I certainly hope that you don't think that a human on Prozac is laugh-worthy.

 

See, a comment like that makes me wonder if while I'm writing something fairly innocuous, you're actually reading something more along the lines of "I'm a horrible person who laughs at sick people and kicks dogs who take Prozac."

 

Of course I don't think a human OR a canine on Prozac is laughworthy. The defensiveness you are showing on the subject makes me think that you have probably been laughed at many times for trying to treat your dog's anxiety. I don't feel it is ridiculous to treat a dog for anxiety with drugs or therapy and I've never in my life laughed at anyone with depression or anxiety. I'm sorry you have had to deal with people before who make you feel these problems are something that generates ridicule. I hope you don't truly believe that anyone on here is looking down on you or the original poster for helping your dog in any way you can.

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The defensiveness you are showing on the subject makes me think that you have probably been laughed at many times for trying to treat your dog's anxiety. I don't feel it is ridiculous to treat a dog for anxiety with drugs or therapy and I've never in my life laughed at anyone with depression or anxiety. I'm sorry you have had to deal with people before who make you feel these problems are something that generates ridicule. I hope you don't truly believe that anyone on here is looking down on you or the original poster for helping your dog in any way you can.

Whaaat??? What a stupid supposition! My dog is three years old and developed separation anxiety this past JUNE after our family traveled on vacation. To the contrary, I have not been "laughed at many times" for trying to treat my dog's anxiety. I have learned that there is quite a little club of those of us who are dealing with this and folks have been extremely helpful. I consider Melanie an expert on this subject both PROFESSIONALLY and from a personal angle. As an ADULT who is pushing 50, I quit worrying about what people thought when I was in my teens---it's my business alone how I spend my money and if fixing my dog's brain is what I want to spend money on, why in the world would I care what anyone else thought!?!

 

My dog chewed up the windowsill, two sets of blinds, the window grid, the door frame, the door molding, and eventually snapped his teeth (to the pulp) on his crate....you mention in your post that some people might make me feel that "these problems are something that generates ridicule"....sorry, I wouldn't waste the time of day on these kind of people.

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As far as using Prozac goes (the original question in this post), from what I understand it's been on the market for a year now, and is prescribed along with a behavior modification program. As in humans, it works on some and not on others, so if you do decide to use it rather than a different drug, don't give up if it doesn't seem to solve the problem. Your dog's chemistry may just not respond well. It's a serious commitment to your dog's health, since if you forget to give your dog the medication it will reduce the effectiveness of the treatment.

 

There are side effects associated with using it. If you google for information on it, it helps to use the word "fluoxetine" instead of Prozac, since googling "Prozac for dogs" gets you a bunch of crap.

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I read DR's 1st post in this thread as in poor form as well. I just don't see how people can think it is funny to want to give your pet good medical care in brain and body. Lobo needs his amitryptiline to be anywhere near livable. Bringing up a skit that I also remember, but I think was more about wanting a dog to be programmable like a robot with drugs, didn't make it funny. The way I read it (remembering the skit) was, giving drugs to a dog for behavioral problems is a laughable, quick-fix, silly middle-class extreme solution, because that was sort of what psychotropic drug giving was like in the skit. If that's not how DR meant it, ok, but it did come off that way to me.

 

BTW I also do have a sense of humor. Even an irreverent one. But time and place, y'know?

 

to the OP - I don't give behavioral meds to a dog but they have made it possible to live with my cat Lobo. As Melanie said, this cat may not have survived otherwise. Now I actually am really fond of him and his weird stereotypic repetitive behavior patterns have decreased a lot. Lobo is a hybrid and it's clear from other physical symptoms the hybridization did not go well. After meeting him I just blanketly don't advocate breeding bengals, but he is happy now, and we love him, which is saying a lot compared to where we started. We are even attempting to wean him off them now after 5 years of successful treatment, so far it's going pretty well. I don't know if it will last, and have no qualms going right back to the drugs if not. Good luck to you and your pup.

 

ETA: this cat was also aggressive and unfriendly, the drug helped with those things too.

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why in the world would I care what anyone else thought!?!

 

That is the question of the day, isn't it. And if you've never had anyone offer any criticism, and never had anyone laugh at you for your care of your dog, then it is beyond me why you would assume insult and ridicule from me, when I've offered nothing of the sort.

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To MyGirl, the original poster. My suggestion is that you have your dog's thyroid tested. Hypothyroidism can be an underlying cause for much of what you described in your dog. Fear, phobia, aggression may sometimes be caused by it and, if I were you, that's the first thing I would do. Your dog's thyroid may not be the problem, but it never hurts to check and the treatment can be as simple as .03mg of Soloxine 2x a day and the results can be dramatic.

 

There is a vet here in CA who specializes in thryroid problems in dogs. Her name is Dr. Jean Dodds and you can reach her through her website Just scroll down to "contact hemopet" and call them for information. If you have to leave a message, they are very good about calling back. You want a 5-panel thyrid test and your vet can draw the blood sample and send it to her for testing. She will do so, then email you with results and recommendations.

 

I don't have any experience with prozac in dogs, but from the behaviors you've described, I highly recommend a thyroid test. Best wishes for you and your dog.

 

Cheers all

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