Anyone here who does search and rescue?

[Tommy Coyote]

I am new here. I have had border collies most of my life. Now I have a new puppy that I would like to train to do search and rescue. I am in Kansas City, Mo.

 

Tommy is a Jack Knox puppy - she is one of the cutest puppies I have ever owned - just completely full of herself but very sweet tempered. And she is very small. Her mother was about 35 pounds and I doubt she will even make that. She is mostly white - black mask and ears and one black leg with a brown stripe.

 

I can't do herding work with her because I live in the city and there is no place close to go. And I am absolutely awful at herding. I treid for years but i just don't have the timing to do it right. But I would like to get her into search and rescue. I think she would be really good at that.

 

Anyone with experience here?

[Withzia]

My first BC loved it. More than anything else on earth. And every SAR person who saw her work raved about her abilities.

 

But how it will work for you depends in large part on what your local SAR-dog team is like. Every team will have different requirements and even different training protocols. I'd start by locating that team--whether through the Internet or calling up the sheriff's department and finding out if they have contact information for a local team.

 

At the same time you may want to try out your pup on some basic exercises to see if she's got the aptitude and likes it. You can pick up a book, or I or someone else here can explain about "puppy run-away" and other exercises.

[Maralynn]

I am training my BC for search work. Kipp is a little dog, too - he tips the scales at 29#! We have evaluations coming up at the end of this month, and I'm cautiously optimistic that we can pass this time around. I started training him 2 years ago.

 

Have you found a group in you area that you will be training with?

[Tommy Coyote]

I am training my BC for search work. Kipp is a little dog, too - he tips the scales at 29#! We have evaluations coming up at the end of this month, and I'm cautiously optimistic that we can pass this time around. I started training him 2 years ago.

 

Have you found a group in you area that you will be training with?

I haven't gotten that far yet. I know there is a group in Lee's Summit but I don't know anything about them. I'm feeling guilty today. I've got a puppy that really needs to be working sheep. And I live in the middle of the city. But search and rescue is something we could do together and it would give her something worthwhile to work at.

 

Now if I am strong enough to do it. I'm not young any more.

[aljones]

When I lived in Lawrence (in the 90s), I know there was a pretty active tracking community based somewhere around Kansas City. A woman I knew through our BCs practiced with a group (a club?) regularly. I just wanted to toss another idea out there in case the SAR option doesn't work out for you. I think I have a current email for the woman with the tracking experience--if you want to investigate further, let me know, and I'll shoot her an email to see if she has any current contacts....

[Carlasl]

I am in KC also. I don't know of any SAR groups here, but I haven't really looked. I do know that there are some opportunities for herding (I just found out about them), but you would have to travel probably and hour to get to the farms. Are you interested in agility? If you are I train at a fantastic facility that I would highly recommend.

[AllieMackie]

Don't feel badly about not herding! While yes, it's what they were bred for, it doesn't necessarily mean that every BC has to herd sheep. You're looking into another "job" venue, and that's fantastic. A BC with a job, any job, to do, is a happy BC.

 

This may be obvious, but have you looked into agility, flyball, disc dog and other dog sports, as well? They're usually more common in the city, and are LOTS of fun, a bonding experience, and a way for your BC to have a job to do, as well. You mentioned that exercise levels for you may be an issue, but flyball and dockdogs are both low impact on the handlers.

 

I'm afraid I can't help much on the SAR venue, but I'm also watching this thread as it's something I pondered getting Finnegan into at some point.

[Tommy Coyote]

Don't feel badly about not herding! While yes, it's what they were bred for, it doesn't necessarily mean that every BC has to herd sheep. You're looking into another "job" venue, and that's fantastic. A BC with a job, any job, to do, is a happy BC.

 

This may be obvious, but have you looked into agility, flyball, disc dog and other dog sports, as well? They're usually more common in the city, and are LOTS of fun, a bonding experience, and a way for your BC to have a job to do, as well. You mentioned that exercise levels for you may be an issue, but flyball and dockdogs are both low impact on the handlers.

 

I'm afraid I can't help much on the SAR venue, but I'm also watching this thread as it's something I pondered getting Finnegan into at some point.

Thanks everyone. I don't think Tommy is going to be one to retrieve very well. She just isn't interested so far. But she surely loves her soccer ball. And she likes to dig. She is just such a stock dog. I am going to try to get her into Jack Knox's spring clinic so he can assess her. He just lives about an hour and a half from my house and he has clinics there on his farm for people around here. There is a group of people in this area that meet every so often down on his farm. But I simply can 't train her myself. If I go that direction I will have to send her off with someone and I would just hate to do that.l I would miss her so much. She is just the cutest little thing.

[bcnewe2]

Hi Tommy Coyote

I hope you make it to Jack's clinics. You can't go wrong with him and you're lucky you live that close. You'll also get to meet people at his place that are close to you. You could get together to work sheep with them. There's also the ShowMe Stockdog associatoin. Lots of members close to you. You can ask about it when you attend his clinic.

 

Sorry I can't help you with SAR, sounds like a great thing to do, but don't know anything about it.

 

BTW I have a pup out of Kathy Knox, and an older dog bred the same on top. They both learned to play fetch. They aren't obsessed with it but they do enjoy it. So don't give up on her playing fetch, she can learn anything you want to teach her. Just curious, who is your pup out of?

 

Good luck and enjoy your journey with Tommy.

[Maralynn]

Thanks everyone. I don't think Tommy is going to be one to retrieve very well. She just isn't interested so far.

 

She's just a young pup, right? give her time and you might be surprised

 

For SAR work, you'll need a toy or game that you dog loves that you'll be able to reward her with. Most people use a tug toy of some sort, but some use a ball or frisbee. SAR work is esentially a game for your dog where they are working to get their reward, so you'll need to have a highly motivating reward for her to earn.

 

I think you may be being a bit hard on yourself. Just because you've got a working bred pup doesn't mean she thinks about working stock all the time, or misses it when shes not able to. I've got sheep and right now my dogs just get to work them once or twice a month. They are still happy dogs. I set up SAR problems 2-3 times a week for them to work and besides that they just do games of fetch and chase each other - and go for car rides whenever possible!

[MaggieDog]

Keep in mind too that SAR is not just "something to do with your dog", it's a full time commitment where you can be called out in all weather and at all times of day to go find someone, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. It's not something to do just because your dog can't see sheep regularly - people's lives depend on you.

 

I started working my little mixed breed girl in SAR in August 2008; we're still a long way from certifying and I'm currently worried about her washing out due to some issues with wildlife, but we're working through it. The support of our team has been very helpful and if she doesn't make it you can bet I'll be getting another dog to work in SAR because I enjoy the work, the special connection to the dog, and the ability to serve others.

 

My blog has some info on our training that you might find interesting, though I'm not the best at updating it at times. www.zthesardog.blogspot.com .

[desertranger]

I've done SAR work with my BC as well. Aside from the physical aspects of doing SAR there is the mental challenge as well. Let me ask a few Questions.

 

1. Are you prepared to...
   
   
   1. 
      
   2. Provide first aid to an injured person?
      
      
   3. Have that person die in your arms?
      
      
   4. Are you prepared to find and recover bodies?
      
      
   5. Are you prepared to spend up to a week in the field or hike in as many miles as needed with your dog, gear and supplies?
      
      

[*] Do you have the needed outdoor skills to work SAR?

[*] Are you personally funded well enough to buy your gear and pay for training if necessary. I'm not so I have volunteers resupply my gear a few times a year.

SAR is not a hobby or just another acitvity. It is a long term commitment. Here in the desert SAR teams might spend up to a week spending nights in unfavorable conditions including heat and cold. The end result is not always satisfying either sometimes it can be downright depressing. I would like to suggest you visit my website, read my blog and visit the Hiker Hell Blog. After you've done all that then think about doing SAR. If you're still think you want to join a SAR team afterwards I wish you the best of luck and shall say welcome aboard.

 

 

 

Always remember that SAR people are prepared to risk themselves and their dogs so that others may live.

 

That's the commitment you're going to make.

[Tommy Coyote]

Hi Tommy Coyote

I hope you make it to Jack's clinics. You can't go wrong with him and you're lucky you live that close. You'll also get to meet people at his place that are close to you. You could get together to work sheep with them. There's also the ShowMe Stockdog associatoin. Lots of members close to you. You can ask about it when you attend his clinic.

 

Sorry I can't help you with SAR, sounds like a great thing to do, but don't know anything about it.

 

BTW I have a pup out of Kathy Knox, and an older dog bred the same on top. They both learned to play fetch. They aren't obsessed with it but they do enjoy it. So don't give up on her playing fetch, she can learn anything you want to teach her. Just curious, who is your pup out of?

 

Good luck and enjoy your journey with Tommy.

Wow. Another Knox puppy. Tommy is out of Dot and Jim. Jack said she sounds just like her mother. Dot only weighs about 35 pounds. He said that Jim is a big dog. I think they are both imports. I know her daddy is.

 

She is one of the cutest puppies I have ever had. She has the sweetest temperment. But she is all stockdog. Tommy is mostly white. But she has a black mask and ears and one black leg with a brown stripe. I know that white isn't preferred by sheep people but I just love the way she looks.

 

Jack mentioned the ShowMe Stockdog group. I like to go to those things whenever I can - not because I will ever be a great handler but because they are just fun. The people are always so nice. And its is great for me just to get away and talk stockdog for a while. I went down to the clinic the first weekend in December but Tommy was only three months old then. We watched. But it was so cold that I finally gave up after a couple of hours. His place sits up on a hill and it is just beautiful but the wind really sweeps across. All the farm people have the right kind of clothes and it doesn't seem to bother them much but I just froze. April should be better - I hope. And Tommy will be 8 months so she should be old enough to at least get started in the round pen. He is really careful with the young ones so they never are in a position to hurt themselves.

[Maralynn]

I started working my little mixed breed girl in SAR in August 2008; we're still a long way from certifying and I'm currently worried about her washing out due to some issues with wildlife, but we're working through it.

 

The ups and downs of training - oh joy... One step foward and two teps back sometimes. There have been more than a few moments when I thought "what was I thinking when I decided to turn Kipp into a SAR dog?" But then I think back to really how much progress he has made and it makes me feel a bit better.

 

Do you have a certain time frame that you need to certify in or the dog washes? When I started a person on my team told me that it usually takes a person 18-24 months to certify their first dog. I was a bit surprised that it usually takes so long, but after working through th process, I can see why.

 

We have team evals coming up in 3 weeks. Kipp should be ready to pass. Everything is going well in training, and we are building up endurance on searches. Things are going really well, but in the ack of my mind I keep thinkig that it is just about time for him to goof up with something

[Tommy Coyote]

I've done SAR work with my BC as well. Aside from the physical aspects of doing SAR there is the mental challenge as well. Let me ask a few Questions.

 

1. Are you prepared to...
   1. 
      
   2. Provide first aid to an injured person?
      
      
   3. Have that person die in your arms?
      
      
   4. Are you prepared to find and recover bodies?
      
      
   5. Are you prepared to spend up to a week in the field or hike in as many miles as needed with your dog, gear and supplies?
      
      

[*] Do you have the needed outdoor skills to work SAR?

[*] Are you personally funded well enough to buy your gear and pay for training if necessary. I'm not so I have volunteers resupply my gear a few times a year.

SAR is not a hobby or just another acitvity. It is a long term commitment. Here in the desert SAR teams might spend up to a week spending nights in unfavorable conditions including heat and cold. The end result is not always satisfying either sometimes it can be downright depressing. I would like to suggest you visit my website, read my blog and visit the Hiker Hell Blog. After you've done all that then think about doing SAR. If you're still think you want to join a SAR team afterwards I wish you the best of luck and shall say welcome aboard.

Always remember that SAR people are prepared to risk themselves and their dogs so that others may live.

 

That's the commitment you're going to make.

You are absolutely right, of course. And I am a pet sitter full time so it is hard for me to get away. Maybe we could just work on it on our own. I've done tracking in the past and we could go out and work on that.

 

I only bred one of my dogs one time - I'm not into breeding. But one time some people talked me into breeding my male so I did. And was so sorry later. But I got a puppy out of that breeding. His name was Jib and he was not a pretty dog. He was almost all black (sable, actually). But a SAR person on the East coast had an old border collie that she had to retire and she needed a new dog so she took Jib. She is Susan Bulanda. Jib turned out to be a great SAR dog. He died one awful Xmas day of a ruptured something. It was awful. But he was awarded Best SAR dog that year posthumously. I was always so proud of him.

[Tommy Coyote]

She's just a young pup, right? give her time and you might be surprised

 

For SAR work, you'll need a toy or game that you dog loves that you'll be able to reward her with. Most people use a tug toy of some sort, but some use a ball or frisbee. SAR work is esentially a game for your dog where they are working to get their reward, so you'll need to have a highly motivating reward for her to earn.

 

I think you may be being a bit hard on yourself. Just because you've got a working bred pup doesn't mean she thinks about working stock all the time, or misses it when shes not able to. I've got sheep and right now my dogs just get to work them once or twice a month. They are still happy dogs. I set up SAR problems 2-3 times a week for them to work and besides that they just do games of fetch and chase each other - and go for car rides whenever possible!

Oh, think Tommy is happy. She has a great relationship with my older dog, Ellie. They play with each other until they are worn out. (Ellie is a border collie rescue that is crippled) And she plays outside in the back yard with her soccer ball. And she chases the squirrels and other wild things.

 

I guess what bothers me is that she is obviously a really good dog and I feel like she is just wasted in my backyard. But I would have to send her off to have her trained and she would have to live with someone else and I just don't want to do that. I would just miss her terribly if she was gone. And so would Ellie. Tommy is just this bright ray of sunshine in our house. She is the happiest little dog.

[Tommy Coyote]

Thanks everyone. I don't think Tommy is going to be one to retrieve very well. She just isn't interested so far. But she surely loves her soccer ball. And she likes to dig. She is just such a stock dog. I am going to try to get her into Jack Knox's spring clinic so he can assess her. He just lives about an hour and a half from my house and he has clinics there on his farm for people around here. There is a group of people in this area that meet every so often down on his farm. But I simply can 't train her myself. If I go that direction I will have to send her off with someone and I would just hate to do that.l I would miss her so much. She is just the cutest little thing.

I'm afraid of Flyball. I watched a competition one time and it was really exciting. But those dogs were running full tilt right onto slick floors. I would think that the chance of getting injured would be very high. Grass would be OK.

 

Maybe we should try agility just to keep her busy and exercised. I think she might be very good at that.

[Tommy Coyote]

Oh, think Tommy is happy. She has a great relationship with my older dog, Ellie. They play with each other until they are worn out. (Ellie is a border collie rescue that is crippled) And she plays outside in the back yard with her soccer ball. And she chases the squirrels and other wild things.

 

I guess what bothers me is that she is obviously a really good dog and I feel like she is just wasted in my backyard. But I would have to send her off to have her trained and she would have to live with someone else and I just don't want to do that. I would just miss her terribly if she was gone. And so would Ellie. Tommy is just this bright ray of sunshine in our house. She is the happiest little dog.

She doesn't pay one bit of attention to a thrown ball. Sometimes she will chase it and then just leave it - she just likes to run.

[mobcmom]

I don't do Search and Rescue but several people in our rescue group do, very successfully. You might check out Kansas organizations also. I'm not sure if you have to be a state resident but worth a little internet research.

State

Kansas Search and Rescue Dog Association (KSARDA)

 

National level

National Association for Search and Rescue

 

Try goggling "Missouri Search and Rescue dog" and see what you find.

 

Note about age: My mom is in her 70's and has two bcs. The bcs were herding dogs or from working lines. She manages to keep them busy and happy. Don't let that be a show stopper. Get out and have fun.

 

Kansas City has a great disc dog club. Kansas City Disc Dogs.

 

mobcmom

[desertranger]

I think the most important thing is what mobcmom said. Keep your dog busy don't let him find his own job. That always works to your disadvantage.

[Tommy Coyote]

I think the most important thing is what mobcmom said. Keep your dog busy don't let him find his own job. That always works to your disadvantage.

Right now she is busy digging in the back yard. I had a mole burrow thru the back yard last year. It started kind of down by the house and then went clear up the back, under the fence and into the neighbor's yard. Tommy seems to be trying to dig out the mole path.