Almost lost Aveda yesterday

[bcnewe2]

desertranger

all you write is great but you give no instructions on how to accomplish that. the OP is asking for help, not what to do without directions.

 

I'm amazed at how many people don't have the luxury of having their dogs off leash. I would hate to try and teach a recall without being able to work it off leash.

Then add that older rescued or purchased dogs, are starting at a point that you have know idea about where they are. It's easy to say, now explain how you do all that with out big spaces to the OP. Not so easy.

 

I've found there are some dogs who will never be totally reliable but you can get them to a safe point. I've had 2 of those type dogs, one I raised from a pup so I don't think it was in training, but in her genetics. I've heard lots refer to her sire as a dishonest dog. I would agree. The other one was a purchase from a stockdog trainer, he never worked with his dogs unless on sheep, then they were kenneled till next time. She never really bonded to me or anyone that I know of. She loved people, just didn't need them like my dogs need me.

 

Good luck in your recall training, it's a long road but one that will be so rewarding/lifesaving in the end. For now I sure would be looking into underground fencing, you could at least sleep better knowing you have a bit of backup.

 

BTW desertranger

all my dogs wait to unload out of the car and wait to load too, doesn't help anyone unless I explain and they understand how to train it.

[Laurae]

Sophie used to have no recall. Actually, I often say she had an anti-recall when she was a youngster, as she would run away from me if she thought I wanted her to come to me and she didn't want to. Because I could never trust her off leash, we spent a lot of time at the dog park when she was young. But she never wanted to leave, and I resorted to chasing her around the park to try to catch her to leave. (I can't believe I'm admitting this publicly, but she really is one of those "difficult" dogs whose recall would never be 100 percent no matter what I trained. Plus, she was my first dog as an adult, so I wasn't very knowledgeable back then.) One day, I had enough and set out to really work on her recall. I used to live in an apartment and so had no fenced-in yard to practice. My solution was to go to an enclosed city tennis court in the neighborhood early every day before work and before actual tennis players showed up, keep her on a long line, toss a tennis ball so she'd go out and then when she went out to get that ball, I'd bounce another tennis ball at my feet. She'd turn to look at that and then move toward it, and then I'd say "Sophie, come!" (These were the days before stock work). If she didn't move toward me on her own, I'd start reeling her in, while saying "come." I had to switch the "bait" over by me often (sometimes yummy treats, sometimes rolling frisbees, etc.) and she began to think of it as a game. Then, we built from there, losing the long line, then putting the line back on and working outside the fenced enclosure, and so on. We also did a lot of hiking. The trails around where I lived at the time are narrow and have a lot of trees along the sides, so I think that encouraged her not wandering too far out. We practiced her recall a ton there, again with treats and toys. To this day, her recall is not 100 percent, so I'd never let her off leash in an urban environment, but on the trail she's fine.

 

I did also teach her to respect threshold boundaries by requiring a sit before crossing one every single time. And always having her leash in my hand before opening car doors, and having her wait to come out until I said "okay." If she hopped out before I said "okay," I made her get back in the car and wait a minute for me to tell her "okay" before was allowed to she jump out. She learned to wait really quickly and would never try to jump out before being told now. Same with front doors.

 

There are lots of ways to teach all this. This is just how I did it with my challenging dog. Good luck with your pup.

[claire24]

desertranger, I completely agree that that's the best way, as that's what I've done with all the dogs I've raised since puppies. However I knew I couldn't do that with her from the beginning because she escaped her pen at the shelter while I was visiting her and immediately tried to find a gap in the fence to get through. That was the first sign. She's also gotten out once before, but it was 5 in the morning so no cars and nothing too interesting to chase, so it wasn't that hard to get her back.

We've been working on the "wait" command for a few weeks now and she's doing pretty well. I also have the advantage of having a foyer/stairwell outside my front door, so there are 2 doors for her to go through thus more difficult for her to just slip out.

Laurae, it's interesting that you mention the tennis court because I just noticed one on campus the other day that's just a short walk from my apartment. I think I'll try to work on her off-leash recall there, and hopefully get some exercise without having to go to the dog park and pick up a million fleas.

Also, for those who use the martingale collar, is this good for a dog who pulls on the leash? Can you give corrections with it like a choke chain? I took a class once that taught how to properly use the choke chain, but don't want to use one on my little doxie, or on Aveda for that matter.

[JohnLloydJones]

Also, for those who use the martingale collar, is this good for a dog who pulls on the leash? Can you give corrections with it like a choke chain? I took a class once that taught how to properly use the choke chain, but don't want to use one on my little doxie, or on Aveda for that matter.

 

A martingale collar is fine for a dog who pulls a bit, but I wouldn't attach a leash to a martingale on a dog that is a hard-core puller. I have used a front-clip harness for working with that. I don't use a choke chain and I don't really give "corrections" through the leash, either -- at least if you mean anything else than applying gentle pressure or holding firm against the dogs pulling.

[sluj]

I did also teach her to respect threshold boundaries by requiring a sit before crossing one every single time. And always having her leash in my hand before opening car doors, and having her wait to come out until I said "okay." If she hopped out before I said "okay," I made her get back in the car and wait a minute for me to tell her "okay" before was allowed to she jump out. She learned to wait really quickly and would never try to jump out before being told now. Same with front doors.

 

Allie has a "wait" command I trained in a similar way (I also used it to delay her eating treats). One night I let her out without realizing that the gate was open, and she decided to chase a jogger. I didn't fully trust her recall, so yelled "wait!", saw her freeze in her tracks, then whistled her in. Sometimes I think they get over stimulated, and stopping + turning around + coming back may be more than their brains can handle at that time.

 

Hide-and-seek games can also be useful to encourage her to check up on you periodically. A long line and an assistant are a good idea if you can't find a large enough fenced area.

[SoloRiver]

I lived in the city until last year and didn't have a fenced yard. I used to make use of tennis courts, basketball courts, and the far corners of any mostly-fenced areas I could find if I had a dog at the time that I wasn't sure I could trust off leash.

 

One of my favorite places in Philly was a soccer field fenced on three sides, with one long side unfenced toward a quiet street. I felt safe with my own dogs there as long as we were on the far side of the field and later, even on the unfenced side of the field as they were reliable, but I never felt OK about having Lacey loose over there. My Papillon was safe there because even though he would sometimes play keep-away (at first), he never went far and actually leaving the area was not part of his agenda. I think he just thought it was funny.

 

I worked very, very hard on recalls with my dogs because without a solid recall, a city dog can never really run free (that, and because Solo's nuts). Having a foster, Lacey, who could not be trusted off leash really cramped my style, but she did make pretty decent progress in a relatively short amount of time, and I am confident I could have gotten her to at least 90% reliability given more time. By the time I got Jett I had easy access to Golden Gate Park, and she was reliable almost from day one. I have a yard now but I can't say I use it much for training because it's a typical suburban yard and I like to have way more space than that to play with my dogs. Actually, having major urban parks at my disposal kind of spoiled me. Luckily, the neighborhood I live in now kind of is a park. It's semi-rural, and has a lot of allotted parks in it, but they're really sort of redundant.

 

One thing I will say for having a dog with no yard in the city is that you have way, way better proofing opportunities than pretty much everyone else. Nothing distracts my dogs, nothing. Weird things, weird dogs, weird people, we pass all of them by and everyone remains completely nonplussed. It's the best training environment in the world and honestly, I miss it.

[Pili]

See, this situation is my biggest fear. Indy does exactly the same thing. Thankfully it has only been in the back yard. I am also trying to figure out how to get a solid recall on him, but he still flinches if I try to play with him. It almost seems like "keep away" is the only type of playing he knows. Maybe that is why he was dumped at the shelter. I'm in Lawrenceville, so if you figure out how to fix this come share!

[Tassie]

Another game you might like to play with Aveda is to teach her to target your hand with her nose. You can start by luring her with a high value treat between 1st and 2nd finger with you hand held towards the dog, making it easy for the dog to reach. Chances are the dog will nose the hand to smell the treat. Mark that with your reward marker - rinse and repeat. Once you think the dog is getting it, don't use the lure, but still make it easy for the dog to reach the hand. Use each hand, and gradually make it harder for the dog to reach. Once you've got the behaviour reliably with the hand position, you can start adding the verbal cue - I just use 'touch' - you can later on generalise it to other targets.

 

One of the students in my puppy class had obviously been practising 'touch' diligently, and it was obviously more solid than her recall command. Her pup got out when someone opened a gate. Pup wouldn't respond to recall, so the owner tried a nice firm 'Touch' cue with her hand held in the extended palm position. She was delighted when the dog came back and did a nice solid nose touch. She made a huge fuss, and raced inside to get a jackpot of treats and praise. It was so nice for me to hear that story. Just reinforces that a heavily reinforced and well rewarded behaviour can stick fairly quickly.

[Tommy Coyote]

Another game you might like to play with Aveda is to teach her to target your hand with her nose. You can start by luring her with a high value treat between 1st and 2nd finger with you hand held towards the dog, making it easy for the dog to reach. Chances are the dog will nose the hand to smell the treat. Mark that with your reward marker - rinse and repeat. Once you think the dog is getting it, don't use the lure, but still make it easy for the dog to reach the hand. Use each hand, and gradually make it harder for the dog to reach. Once you've got the behaviour reliably with the hand position, you can start adding the verbal cue - I just use 'touch' - you can later on generalise it to other targets.

 

One of the students in my puppy class had obviously been practising 'touch' diligently, and it was obviously more solid than her recall command. Her pup got out when someone opened a gate. Pup wouldn't respond to recall, so the owner tried a nice firm 'Touch' cue with her hand held in the extended palm position. She was delighted when the dog came back and did a nice solid nose touch. She made a huge fuss, and raced inside to get a jackpot of treats and praise. It was so nice for me to hear that story. Just reinforces that a heavily reinforced and well rewarded behaviour can stick fairly quickly.

 

What a timely topic. I was just talking to Jack Knox about this. I need to teach my puppy to come. His dogs always come on command. Actually, all the handlers dogs come on command. Long time ago Bill Berhow told me that he always knows there is trouble if the handler comes to the post with his dog on a leash.

 

I am pretty sure that Jack never uses treats to train his dogs. He expects them to behave themselves. And they do. I think he would say that its a matter of the dog respecting you.

 

He told me to get a 20 foot line. Let the dog go out to the end of it. Call her name and then jerk the line. If she doesn't come jerk it again. Never go to the dog. The dog must come to you.

 

So I am off to find some kind of 20 foot line to start practicing. Tommy has a mind of her own and tends to come when she feels like it. Having a really strong, consistent come is so important that we will just work on it until she has it.

[diane allen]

I'll second, third and fourth till the sheep come home, Alaska's recommendation on the DVD, Really Reliable Recall. The woman trains sighthounds, for dogs' sake! If they'll come, any respecting border collie should - if you follow her program. Meanwhile, do NOT let this dog off leash. At the very least, get a long line, so you can haul her back in should she decide there's something more exciting out there than you. The RRR program is not an easy fix - it's work, it needs to be worked and worked and worked - but it does work!

 

diane

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Laurae, it's interesting that you mention the tennis court because I just noticed one on campus the other day that's just a short walk from my apartment. I think I'll try to work on her off-leash recall there, and hopefully get some exercise without having to go to the dog park and pick up a million fleas.

 

Actually, I didn't even think of this, but a couple down the street from me adopted a 1yr old bc (beautiful boy!) from the humane society not too long ago and I noticed that they would take him to the park across the way from me and use the tennis court. They'd play fetch with him and practice his recall etc. I thought that it was a brilliant idea, especially since in the 5 years I have lived in this house, I've seen the court used once for tennis!

 

I second Alaska's recommendation on the front clip harness for a puller, they work pretty good, but any collar/harness is only a management tool really. I don't know where you are located and what training facilities are available to you, but I bet you might be able to find a good recall or loose leash walking class and that will not only teach you and the dog, but help you form a really good bond with each other! (I'm really sorry if I already mentioned that...)