kylebrk Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 One of her Great Great Granparents was Ben from Joe & Laura Stimatze, located in Kansas. He was a cattle dog and given the "Dog of the Year" award in 1995 from Red River Cattle Dog Association. (I know it's not much, but I'm giving you everything I can find.) This is what they say about Ben: "He was the kind of dog you read about in storybooks. By L.R. Alexander's Ben out of a Alexander bred female, he won over 15 trials. He was the kind of dog that always seems to be in the right place with seldom a word from you. This dog has been a real asset to us in the cattle industry and our dog business. He was blind in one eye as an older dog, but still ready to work at the drop of Joe's hat." A Great Grandparent was Willie from Eric Wanman, located in Buhl, ID. He does stock dogs as well. I found some articles about him online. Nothing particular. It looks like she has a heritage in cattle... I guess there's always agility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 The Stimatze have some nice dogs i would just wait and see how the pup grows. Kell can manage his way around a sheep course for a "cowdog". Dont limit yourself with what others think of his breeding, just go and learn all you can from people who work at a level you hope to achieve. Lana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess there's always agility... Oh, I hope you don't get discouraged. My opinion is nothing next to the experienced folks here (and heaven forbid, my trainer works more than just border collies, so that may discount me right there), but I don't think you should give up. Find the best trainer you can, who trains for the kind of work you want to do, who treats your dog and the stock well, that you're comfortable with, and do your best. Just my .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 It looks like she has a heritage in cattle... I guess there's always agility... Don't get wrapped up on your dogs pedigree, it's just a list of the dogs that were mated together that in the end resulted in her. She may demonstrate traits of Ben, for example, or she might display something totally different. To me, the first key is stock drive, the second is trainability then the third which seperates the men from the boys is talent. The first 2 keys will give you a dog that you can work with on stock, maybe not Open level but you will be able to have fun either on the trial field in one venue or another. Add in the third key and then you can really have a blast, that third key is where you need a trainer that knows what they are doing to help you to channel the talent to work for you instead of against you. Right now, you already know that she has some stock drive, now you can find some people to help you help her learn how to learn or take to proper stock dog training, once you get on that path it's just a matter of watching to see what color butterfly emerges from the cocoon. At this point in time find out how other open handlers are relating to their pups or young dogs, what do they accept what do they not accept and what do they do about it. Now is the time to shape your student so that when the time comes she is eager to learn, with that comes your education, you can't teach what you don't know, so before you try to teach her you need to learn. Don't wait for your pup to get older before you learn more about trialing and stock work, use this time to get your course work together (I don't mean trial course, I mean course of study). As others have said, it's a journey, and it's a lifestyle change for many, especially those that are used to riding along in the passanger's seat. Be ready to jump on up into the drivers seat and enjoy the ride. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 When people talk to me about trainers...this is what I use.. You want to win the Tour DeFrance.....or at least try to compete at a very high level Now given the choice of Instructors...who would you pick (pick two) 1. Lance 2. The weekend rider who competes in easy 10 miles road races and may win a few now and then 3. A rider who has competed in the Tour DeFrance and placed high and has won many other tough rides Now, say if they pick #1 and #3, then I ask. Are you willing to work at it? Like ride and ride and train and train in all sort of weather and conditions? If so, then come out Sunday with muck boots and rain gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylebrk Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Here is Piper's Pedigree in full. Thanks to JDarling for the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 As others have said, don't let what you find in the pedigree limit your choices of what to do with your dog. My first trial dog was a rescue with an *unknown* pedigree. She and I managed to get as far as the class below open. I learned a heckuva lot from training and trialing her. I have several dogs who work cattle very nicely but have what would be considered more "sheepdog pedigrees." The one dog I have who does have the name of at least one well-known breeder of cattle-working dogs won't look at cattle. So if you want to learn to work stock, go for it--just find the right trainer for to get you as far as you can go. When the finals were in PA in 2007, the announcer introduced the top 17 handlers and told a little about them. I believe all of them had been trialing in *open* for at least 10 years. And of course it takes time (years) to even get to open, especially if you're starting from scratch with a youngster. The rewards are immense for sticking with it and getting there, though, not in terms of prizes or money, but more in a sense of accomplishment and a job well done. That's the main difference between the type of work we call USBCHA style and the type required by the organizations that offer titles. They are much more about instant or near-instant gratification. It's like setting a basketball goal at half the regulation height. Sure more people can become basketball "stars" if you do that, but the true greats won't ever get a real chance to shine, and there's no reward for really putting in the time and effort to become the best of the best (that is, with the goal set at half height, mediocre becomes good enough).... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 My puppy that I started doing herding with over 10 year ago had no pedigree at all but she was really keen. I bought her as pity buy for $100 to keep her from being shot. I went to a AKC/AHBA/ASCA trainer but soon saw the error of my ways and then went to an USBCHA handler who comes here only twice a year. I would go to as many clinics as possible and found local USBCHA handlers for lessons...I would drive 3 hrs plus each way..... And my no name, non papered puppy, was Tess. She got her papers on merit and has made me the Open handler that I am today. Up close, she doesn't have anything notable but her grandparents were quite nice. I remember saying over ten years ago, I am only going to do this a little bit as we are not very good (so I thought) and the drive is too far and I have better things to do and I live in the city <sigh> ....so much for *THAT STATEMENT* Bless that Tess for carrying me on her broad shoulders and Scott Glen for being patient with me all those years in teaching me......and of course, the husband who *bought* Tess a sheep farm for her second year old Birthday. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Kylebrk, Hello I am located in Switzerland Co in the SE corner of IN. It is maybe a 3 hr drive from where you are. I would be more than happy to help out when I can. In the border collie herding world I am rather new to this haveing bc for 8 years but I am doing most of my own training and seeking help when I need suggestions. I have a 2 yr old that I have raised and trained and is ready to begin trialing so I am excited about him. I entered us in the Bluegrass this year so that will be a good challenge. As Mike mentioned I have held two clinics in the past 6 months. Patrick Shannahan was here in Oct and Jack Knox was here last weekend for a clinic. I am hoping to have Jack back again in June and then possibly hold another clinic in the fall. There are quite a few herding folks around Indy but mostly AKC/ ASCA herding trials and clinics. Like most things in life you have to have enough knowledge base to evaulate your options and pick the ones that suit you, your dog and your goals. Mike is a great source of knowledge and experience if you can get him cornered long enough :-) I have been trying to do that for quite some time. I have heard very good things about Judy and there are a few folks near Chicago also. If you would like to contact me please do so denice.r@lycos.com I will post any upcoming clinics on this site as well. Have fun with your pup. Get her coming everytime you call her and general good manners and respect and she will have a good base for stock work. If you go to Patricks web site he has several great articles there. Denice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I highly recommend Denice. In all of my dealing with her, she has been awesome. You will have your eyes opened when you take a lesson with her!! She has some great dogs too Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylebrk Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Denice, That would totally be a fun Saturday trip. We should do it. On the other hand, I went to the farm this weekend. I talked to Mary and she informed me that she has been training her BC for USBCHA. She's actually going to try him at the Kentucky Trial coming up. We had a really great session and Piper was more comfortable in the pen. She is super interested in the sheep and was using both flanks evenly. We were very pleased with her response to pressure. We only worked her for about 30 minutes total. We broke it up so that she had plenty of time to rest. We didn't want her to get overwhelmed. I think I'm going to go to a couple of trials and clinics before I make my final decision on a trainer. I think doing things like going to Denice's and seeing how she does things. I think I'll take all of your advice and just learn as much as I can while she's still so young. Thanks for all your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Good for you and nice work for Piper. Short sessions are best, particularly for younger dogs and new handlers. Auditing clinics is not a bad idea - you get a great deal of opportunity to watch, listen, and ask questions - and you can see what training is about at different levels, for different handlers, and different dogs. Plus, it's a less expensive way to dip your toes into the waters, and to be exposed to different trainers and their methods/approaches. Which trial in KY is she entering, and in which class (what level)? The folks in KBCA are a terrific bunch. If you get the chance to go to the Bluegrass, please do. It is one of the US's top trials. I've heard UK judges comment that it is on a par with their Nationals. It is held in mid-May at Lexington. There is a website with plenty of information. If you are able to attend any trials, offer to help. Volunteers of every level of experience can help in some way or another, and it's a great way to meet people and make connections so that you can ask for suggestions and help in finding good training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylebrk Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Good for you and nice work for Piper. Short sessions are best, particularly for younger dogs and new handlers. Auditing clinics is not a bad idea - you get a great deal of opportunity to watch, listen, and ask questions - and you can see what training is about at different levels, for different handlers, and different dogs. Plus, it's a less expensive way to dip your toes into the waters, and to be exposed to different trainers and their methods/approaches. Which trial in KY is she entering, and in which class (what level)? The folks in KBCA are a terrific bunch. If you get the chance to go to the Bluegrass, please do. It is one of the US's top trials. I've heard UK judges comment that it is on a par with their Nationals. It is held in mid-May at Lexington. There is a website with plenty of information. If you are able to attend any trials, offer to help. Volunteers of every level of experience can help in some way or another, and it's a great way to meet people and make connections so that you can ask for suggestions and help in finding good training. Will do. Volunteering actually sounds like something I should do anyway. I think it might be the Bluegrass. I believe she's doing novice to start out. I'm not sure. I need to ask. I plan on going with her. Is anyone else planning on being in Kentucky during May? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I didn't notice her name in any of the handler/dog lists so that's why I wondered. The entries fill up very fast for a top-level trial like this one. I will be working at the Bluegrass again this year. There may well be other folks from these boards there, running dogs in different classes but mainly Open, Nursery, Ranch, and ProNovice. With the economy where it is right now, there are a number of people I know that did not send in entries this year, but it still filled quickly. I ran in Novice at the Bluegrass several years ago and was happy with my dog's efforts (much more so than my own), but for now I am a trialling drop-out, so I won't be on the field. I love volunteering - all the fun, all the socializing, a great seat if you are scribing, and none of the anxieties. There are lots of jobs and you can go to the website and email Susan Carvalho if you'd like to volunteer. They are always eager to welcome new helpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Gee...volunteering at the Bluegrass in May--sounds like a GREAT opportunity for socializing a certain little somebody!! A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 How'd you guess? It will probably be a young dog's idea of heaven, as long as I can find some folks to help babysit. Thank I'll have a chance for that? I camp out there with Celt each year, and they make sure I have some time off each day to be with him and take him around a bit, or just have him with me at whatever job I am doing. I am sure that what's-his-name-gonna-be will have no problem making new friends. Socialize, socialize, socialize - right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Haha! When Tikkle was about 13 weeks old, we took a road trip to Calgary (a very long road trip!!). I decided it might be a good idea to take her into the indoor arena one night to watch the dog runs, so she could get used to lots of noise and activity, etc. (think HUGE arena with grandstands and jumbotron and loud speakers, etc.) I almost never saw her, as she was passed from lap to lap to lap. She had a blast! Camping out sounds like the perfect opportunity to really bond and have fun. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 We always enjoy camping at stock dog events too. We have Aussies and DH doesn't enjoy going. So, I pack up my heart dog Alfie and we go together. It is fun to see the different breeds and also the Border Collie big hats. We always learn something from going. The campfires are fun too and the food always tastes better out in the open air. We offer to time at the events too as we don't do any set out work being total newbies. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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