Working Multiple Dogs

[JaderBug]

I watched some working videos lately, and was wondering something. How do you work multiple dogs at one time? Is it difficult? How do they know which one is getting which command? Do you just expect them to know what they're doing? What can anybody share about working multiple dogs at the same time?

 

Sorry if this is a very broad question, I just have no idea and wanted to learn

[somewhereinusa]

When doing chores, I would often have four dogs, the older ones usually knew what to do, or needed very little input from me, the younger ones were doing most of the work anyway. I just said the name of the one I wanted to do something. When working two in brace type work, I still just said the name of the dog before the command. I had one pair that were on the same whistles and it worked there too.

[Lizmo]

Also, I've heard handlers use different whistles for each dog they are working.

 

I've not seen more than 2 dogs working together. It would be intersting (and fun!) to watch 4+ dogs working the same group of stock.

[juliepoudrier]

The people I know who use multiple dogs either do something similar to what SomewhereintheUSA describes or just put different whistles on the dogs (the latter is more common for a brace). I asked someone once how he trained braces and he said that he would start with names before the command, but by ultimately training different whistles for each member of the brace and training the dogs to respond only to their individual whistles, he could direct each dog individually while working them together.

 

J.

[Sue R]

My problem when I work Celt and Bute together is that, in spite of using names in front of commands, Celt in particular seems to respond to the other dog's commands.

[stockdogranch]

I have worked two together quite a bit (not always the same two), and occasionally a third. I put everyone on different flank whistles, but the same walk up and lie down, so sometimes saying the name first helps. Usually this is on a large group, although I have used two together for setout, too. Some are pretty good at taking only their whistle, but others (Riddle, in particular), takes no time at all to learn everyone else's whistles (she's just a busybody), and then tries to respond to theirs, too, if I let her. But if I just use her name, then she responds appropriately. I know lots of folks working large groups of fresh cattle will almost always use multiple dogs. Mostly they just use verbal commands.

 

A

[osioda]

As for myself an using more than one dog, I start different than most people because of this, from the time that I start teaching I start with using there name and command and I continue it clear on through there training, so when I want one dog to do one thing I say there name and the command and I have not had a problem this away, I do know that most trainers stay away from using, saying the dogs name and command, and I have no problem with that, but the way I do it works best for me on my farm just for this reasoning. Whistling will do fine also if you train on the commands but my problem is I would be confused doing whistle commands on several dogs and end up causing more confusion in the dogs.

 

Steve

[somewhereinusa]

Steve,

If and when you trial, or are only working one dog, do you still have to say the dog's name before a command? Seems like it would be cumbersome in that situation.

[Tea]

I work two dogs at a time when I browse loose. I use the dogs name and then the command, but I have some different commands that are only for that one dog.

 

When I started I first taught the dogs to down and let the other dog work. Then moved on very slowly to working both together.

 

BUT

 

When I went over to my friends place to learn some new stuff. I found out that it was very hard for me to work just one dog!

[Pipedream Farm]

It's funny this got asked because I was thinking of asking for tips on this after what happened this morning at our place. We have 2 large handmade feed troughs that need to be replaced soon because they will tip over readily if the sheep push into it too much resulting in spilling their feed all over the ground (actually only one trough is bad about this). Until this trough gets replaced or redesigned, I've been simply holding it from tipping while they eat the grain in the morning. I've been using a dog to hold them out in the field until I'm ready for the sheep, then I call the dog off. This has worked fine this winter, but now that we have lambs, plus the ram is a bit of a pig (he gets cranky about being held away from the feed) the job is getting more difficult. Anyhow, to make a long story short I brought out BJ to back Bette up this morning. Now these dogs are already whistle trained on the same whistles and are both very responsive to commands. It started out a bit counterproductive with them both taking the same commands (saying their names first meant nothing to them). Eventually, BJ was off to one side moving the ram and a small group to the main group and Bette was near me. I ended up leaning down and whispering Bette's command to her so BJ wouldn't hear. Once the sheep were grouped together with both dogs behind them, they naturally drove them out quite well. I didn't really care where the dogs took them as long as it was away from the paddock where I feed. They both took a down and held the sheep until I called them off.

Anyhow, sorry to be so long winded. I was wondering about any tips to get them started only taking their commands with their name. I'm not interested in changing the whistles or competing in brace (where would you even do that here anyhow?) --just want to do a job.

Renee

[stockdogranch]

If you start, say, with a gather, and want them to each take a different flank, you can hold one by the collar for a moment while you send the slower one. Then, after the first one is off and running, you can then release and send the second one. Once they see that they reach the top at about the same time, they kind of "get it." You might need to use your body a bit to make sure the second dog goes the opposite way, and doesn't just want to take off after the first dog. Using the name first with this helps also. You can also do this with both dogs close at hand. Lie one down, and walk the other up, using verbals. Once they get the idea, they begin to listen for their name, knowing their command will follow,

A

[juliepoudrier]

Renee,

I usually use two (three lately, as I'm trying to give Pip experience so letting him work with Lark and Twist) to hold sheep off the feed bunks because one dog just can't easily cover both sides of a hungry flock. I've found that once two dogs know the job I don't really have to say anything to them, so needing separate commands has never been much of a problem for me. Lark will often work closer to the bunk and Twist will work closer to the sheep, but they each cover their own side unless the sheep are trying really hard to bust past one side or the other, and then they will both flank that way. (I'm just trying to get Pip to get the idea at this point that he doesn't need to flank around behind them and push them onto Twist and Lark--always fun first thing in the morning!) So I'm not much help on giving separate commands, but I do sometimes try using the dog's name before giving a command if I need a command, and Lark's tendency toward clappiness helps in that regard because Twist will move first for any flank I give, but as I said, generally I don't have to give them commands--they just do the job. Once BJ and Bette learn to work together on the task I imagine you won't really need commands either.

 

J.

[Pipedream Farm]

Thanks. I'll play around with them up close --not today though, it's bitter out today. I played around years ago with gathering with two dogs (not the same set as this morning). With Mark's old Blue dog and my Starr, it didn't work so well. They took it as some kind of competition to see who could get to the sheep first. When I tried Rae and Starr. Rae took the attitude that she really shouldn't interfere since Starr had the sheep. Now my old dog Moss with Starr would work together some. Moss was an Irish import that had been used for brace so he seemed to get it just naturally. It does add another interesting dynamic seeing how two dogs mesh as a team.

Renee

[osioda]

Steve,

If and when you trial, or are only working one dog, do you still have to say the dog's name before a command? Seems like it would be cumbersome in that situation.

 

Actually the dogs are smart enough to know when they are working together and they realize it, and that is why they respond to there name and command, now if I am out just working with one dog, they realize that my full attention is on them. and I do not have to say there name, It really amazes me as to the brains that they have.

 

That is why also say when you discipline a dog with others around, how do you do it, you say the dogs name to get there attention, and they know they are the one in trouble.

Hope that helps

Steve

[somewhereinusa]

They took it as some kind of competition to see who could get to the sheep first. When I tried Rae and Starr. Rae took the attitude that she really shouldn't interfere since Starr had the sheep.

 

I had a pair, Shep and Nell that I used quite a bit together, both dogs are supposed to be sent the same time. It didn't matter how far the outrun was, Shep would get to the top first and wait for Nell to do the lift. Even if I sent Shep quite some time before Nell, he would wait for Nell to do the lift.

(Insert male joke here)

 

Along the same line, Nell was a good cattle dog, but only if Shep was present, he really didn't have to do anything but be there.

 

Two of the best dogs I ever had, work always seemed like fun with them around.

[bcnewe2]

I use both my dogs to feed and do other chores. Mick gets the idea that he should only move if I say his name first. Dew being young will take anything I say as a command so I haven't yet tried to get her to listen to her name before the command. I send her first and have Mick as back up. When he's alone I don't usually use his name.

 

When farm sitting one of our chores is haveing to separate about 15 young calves from about 20+ sheep that are in the same smallish paddock. I'm not sure how we worked it out, but Dew drives the sheep away from the bunk and the cattle being young and a bit nervous about us, aren't always ready to come up to eat, so while Dew holds the sheep off, Mick gathers the calves.

 

I was trying to teach Dew different whistles. I came up with what I thought would work, but found I quickly got confused and was whistling Mick the wrong thing.

 

It's sorta funny, I recently watched Mist and there's a part where David K. sends one dog way out then a second later he sends the other dog. I'd been thinking about different whistles and being able to work the dogs together like that. Until I read some of these responses I didn't realize I was already working them together. In my mind I was seeing a big field and a brace type thing as being worked together.

[Burnandreturn]

When I want to work multiple dogs I take just a few sheep maybe 20 out into the field. Then I start with two dogs. I put one on one side of the sheep and the other opposite. The I flank one with a name and verbal to where the other dog is and lie it down. The with a name and verbal to the second dog to move it to were the first dog was. and round and round we go. First one then the other. I use there names to walk them up. Saying there name twice, such as Meg Meg. If I want both to walk up I use the normal walk up command.

 

Then I add another dog. We often work four or five dogs at a time. On large bunches and small groups. Giving demonstrations with four dogs is really a great thing for the spectators to see the harmony and partnership of a team, dogs and human working together with not stress. The dogs learned to honour the the other dogs.