BC independence

[haleigh]

One thing I always read in articles about border collies is their level of independence. I know they're bred to work far distances from their handler, and this is kind of carried along to other day-today activities (correct me if I'm wrong on that one, I could know wrong)

 

I know a million dogs who would give anything to sleep on the bed with their owner. Joy has the opportunity to, but she only does of my rooms a terrible mess and has no comfy place to sleep. Her usual sleeping spot is on a chair with my comfy quilt on it, on the other side of my room. When I'm watching a movie, it's at Joy's utter inconvenience to lay by me so I can watch her. The only time I can get her over for pets is when she's been alone all day when I come home from school, or she's insanely bored out of her mind. Forget monitoring pets for NILIF! I can't even pet her to regulate them!

 

The only time she stays by me and actually enjoys being around me (rather than it being a burden) is when we're playing or training. You'd think distance work in agility would be a breeze...not at all. She gets anxious when we attempt it, tucks her tail and runs back to me. For some reason she can't stand being away from me like that. I can't touch her when we're training, or else she *tries* to run off. I've had people accuse me of hurting Joy. Nope, she's not head shy. She's never liked to be pet, or touched otherwise. I can brush her and handle her on cue without issues, but she just doesn't want to be with me, right next to me.

 

Is Joy's levels of 'independence' atypical, or is it the norm?

[urge to herd]

Buzz was my cuddle bug, he loved being petted, scratched, looked at right in the eyes up close, sleeping right up next to me, all that mushy stuff. Samantha is sort of middle of the road. She likes pets and massages, but not for very long and cuddling for about a New York minute.

 

Shoshone just does not like physical affection. She has to be in the same room I'm in. If I stay up past our routine bedtime, she'll frequently toddle off on her own, but other than that, she's within whispering distance all the time. She doesn't like being petted, though. She still moves away if given the chance. If I rub her ears AND she's in the mood, she'll shove her head into my hand when I stop. Other than that, she actually solicits touch from DH or me maybe a couple times a month.

 

So, from my experience, it's well within bc normal to be not so mushy. I've also read here that males tend to be more into petting, etc, than the girls, and that is certainly true at our house.

 

Ruth

[Root Beer]

In the two Border Collies I have, I've found their independence to be rather eclectic.

 

Speedy is a dog who likes his space, but he likes to be near me. He rarely sleeps on the bed, but he either wants his dog bed on the floor by me, or he will sleep under the bed on the side I am on. If we aren't playing or training, he might go lie down in a different room, but more often, he is near me - under the futon if I am on it, near the treadmill if I'm walking on it, curled up next to my chair if I'm on the computer, etc. The only place he does not stay nearby is if I'm in the kitchen. Then he goes off on his own.

 

In training, he likes to stick close. In Freestyle, he has some moves where he backs away from me and does moves at a distance. These are tough for him in public performances. He has to have a certain comfort level to be able to perform those moves.

 

Dean likes to stick with me at home. When he's "at ease", he is usually right by me. He loves to snuggle up against me on the futon. Sometimes he goes to Sammie's chair or the dog bed, but usually he is by me. When I'm on the treadmill, he is on the sofa, which is right next to it. Even when I'm working in the kitchen, he lays down right in the kitchen. He will go off to play with Maddie or chew on a bone often enough, but he is much, much more of a "follow me" kind of dog.

 

In training, as long as he is not having a noise phobic response to something, he is extremely independent. He will happily back more than halfway across the room and do moves way out there. He loves distance stuff in Agility. He is still tuned in to me, but happy to work out away from me. Part of this might be because I started distance work immediately with him. He was going out away from me to touch targets very quickly, and I taught him to back away very early in his training.

[Elizabeth77]

My Meg is a cuddly lady. Sleeps on my bed and sits next to me on the sofa at night or whenever I sit there. She takes the right side , I am on the left. However I do not encourage her climbing on me ;she is a light dog but I don't think it is a good idea to allow her to 'dominate ' me. Hope that is the right approach.A head in the lap is fine!! She is wonderful and I love her so much.

[Chesney's Girl]

Chesney is everywhere I am, including following me into the bathroom. If I'm on the couch he's under my feet or on the other end. If I'm in my room, he's on my bed or next to my chair if I'm on here. The only cuddling I might get from Chesney is if I am on the couch and he comes over and puts his head on my lap or lays up against me and it's usually not for very long.

 

Now I would say Chesney is a very independent dog, he is just a one person dog, and I'm his person. He shows his affection through his unflinching devotion and doesn't need to be shown physical, cuddly affection. (even though I do enjoy twirling his neck fur) A simple pat on the head or ruffing of his ear is enough for him. I don't really equate independence with the amount of affection a dog wants. Chesney has boundaries and is constantly making decisions within those boundaries, and I encourage independent thinking from him, but I don't expect affection (or less for that matter) from him because of that. Also I find the less cuddling I ask of him, the more I get.

 

My question Haleigh is, is she affectionate to anyone? If yes, then who? What do they do differently for her than you do? If she isn't well then I would just say that's who she is. Maybe try giving her a smidge of actual independence and she may return the favor for affection? I don't know if your always doing NILIF or giving her some freedoms, finding a point she can handle appropriately, and taking them away if things start back tracking, but maybe she feels a little roped in at this point? I'm not sure.

[DTrain]

You sound somewhat worried about this. This may not be typical of all border collies but it does happen and each dog seems to have his or her own personality. I have three dogs. I can't walk across a room without being followed by they are not really cuddly dogs. I have a six year old who likes attention but is fine with keeping some distance. He will rarely jump up on my bed and curl in beside me for a belly rub. My four year old who is also my big tough stock dog is fine with distance but he will come to me several times per day for some head petting. He will often jump up on my bed at bedtime and curl in very close for a few minutes and then leave to sleep on the floor. My youngest dog could not care less about closeness or touching, he is far too busy. Yet he likes to be touched and every night at bedtime he will jump up on the bed with me for some attention and then leave. My youngest dog and my middle dog are father and son and they frequently make contact with each other. They will often sleep together with the youngest dog curled in very close. This is interesting because my middle dog cannot tolerate other dogs being that close to him. If I call my dogs to me they will all come for a petting session and sometimes they even want to do a wrestling session.

[Root Beer]

I forgot something that just came to mind.

 

When Speedy was young, he was totally NOT affectionate. He never wanted to be petted, snuggled, etc. Of course, being the absolutely cute and sweet puppy, he got much more affection than he wanted. He tolerated it nicely, but did not like it.

 

Until I started doing a little bit of massage on him. When I started doing some massage, he started coming around looking for attention - not in an annoying, clingy way, but in the normal way that most dogs do from time to time.

 

Might be something to consider.

[Atta Boy Jet]

I'm not sure if this is related, but I'd like to mention that a majority of the people that posted are women. I know in my situation, Jet (and Maya for that matter) act completely different around me than around men. (Especially if I'm home alone.) Jet's favorite relaxing spot is midway between me and the front door, where he can keep an eye on both. Jet can be a snuggly guy when he wants to, but a majority of the time he's in "surveillance mode." Around men, even familiar men, he is much more aloof and almost always closer to me than to them.

[bsms99]

I'm not sure if this is related, but I'd like to mention that a majority of the people that posted are women...

Posting as a guy, I think it is a dog thing (not BC related) and varies from dog to dog. Chris, my all time best dog, was content to watch from across the room. He was part BC, but never acted like one. Dan, our current pound mutt, likes to be petted. If you aren't actively petting him, he goes into the bedroom. My BC puppy likes to lie on feet and jump in laps. In a car, he won't leave the lap! Leila, our previous BC, liked to be close to my wife, but would take me if she was busy. Our Aussie loves to cuddle. Anyone. Anywhere. He's the social butterfly.

 

FWIW - we have 2 Arabian mares. One loves to press against us and get pets. The other likes to STAND next to us and listen - but usually walks away if touched.