Raw and losing wieght

[bcnewe2]

So I've had all my dogs on raw since before Thanksgiving. Probably the start of November.

they all are looking wonderful, coat, teeth, energy, you name it and I can see huge improvment.

Not sure how much I'm feeding but usually a chicken quarter, a large turkey neck, a little more than 1/2# of ground burger (deer, turkey, or lamb) ect.

Then in the evening they get bout a half cup of kibble plus maybe split a can of sardines, or fishsteakes (looks like sardines cut differently), yogart, or cottage cheese as a topper. Then some rec bones ever so often.

Everyone looks like the are keeping their weight on fine except Mick.

I hadn't noticed how much but the other day he was working and it was warm, he finished and jumped into the stocktank. Geesh...he looks horribly thin. He's in great health, better than ever before. I used to have to do his anal glands at least once a month or more. Plus if he's stressed he'll get a droppy eye. all of that's been gone. If he wasn't feeling well before raw his back would have a roach in it, I haven't seen that since raw either.

 

I knew he was a bit thin so for his dinner he's getting a whole cup of dog food (which I'd rather give something else but haven't figured out exactly what) plus double the toppings the other dogs get. Plus more of what ever meat they get for breakfast. I don't think I could get much more meat into him at one sitting but maybe he'd suprise me.

 

Anyone have any ideas of what would put weight on him quickly and help him keep it on?

 

It's seems sorta like the Atkins diet, and he's proof it's working.

 

His ideal weight in my mind is about 43-46 lbs. I would guess he's under 40#'s and he's not that small of a dog. the one thing he's got going for him is that he seems to be feeling totally great. I've never seen him more active or doing the jumping around that he used to never do. Sometimes I sit and marvel over how well they all seem to be doing with the change but obviously I need to do more for him.

So suggestions and easy ones please would be greatly welcomed.

[MaggieDog]

Good fats might be an option. My girl put on weight mysteriously and I think it might be tied to her fish oil caps - 200 calories/cap - so perhaps increasing any oils or fats he's getting.

[urge to herd]

I'd try adding some home cooked grains like oatmeal or rice. Rice is pretty high in calories, so that might be helpful. See if the doubling the kibble makes any difference, that would be a clue to me that he needs more carbs than he was getting.

 

Adding oil I'd look at if the raw meats you're using are lean. Maybe use whole milk yogurt, cottage cheese, or fattier fish?

 

How are his stools?

 

Ruth

[juliepoudrier]

I've used home cooked oatmeal to help dogs gain weight before. It works great when given in addition to the regular ration.

 

J.

[Laurae]

It is likely you are just not feeding him enough. Taz eats almost twice as much as Sophie does, though they weigh almost the same--his metabolism is much faster, he is more active, and he is younger. On a raw diet, not all dogs who weigh the same have the same caloric requirements. I have a scale and weigh their food every day--Taz (42 pounds) gets about 21 ounces, Craig (40 pounds) gets about 18, and Sophie (38 pounds) gets about 12, give or take a few ounces here and there. A good formula to figure out how much they should be eating is 2.5% of their ideal body weight, and you can adjust from there (so a 40-lb. dog would get 1 lb., or 16 ounces, of food a day). Then you can go up or down from there as the dog requires.

[Amelia]

Hello all. I would have his stool checked for worms. Also, I supplment with ground raw flax seed to increase fat content with adding protein. I buy it in bulk for .99 a pound, grind it in my coffee grinder and put about a T on the dogs' dinner. Depending on total calories, it adds 6 or 7 grams of fat.

[Amelia]

edited to add; "Without" adding protein

[1sheepdoggal]

Im having the same problem with my GSD right now, and blood panel came back neg for thyroid, and clean for everything else too. He has dropped 20 lbs in the last couple of months. He is fed kibble so I am changing up from Pro Plan Lamb and Rice to Bil Jack for him.

[pammyd]

How does he feel?? If he has tonnes of energy then it might just be that you got a shock seeing him wet

My totaly raw dogs are v muscled but as they are not digesting tonnes of unnes kibble all day their tummies look really empty and sucked in - thats just normal

How does the ribs and spine and hips feel?? - dont go by just one cos some dogs seem to distribute fat different - Ben has a boney spine but padded ribs and Mia is the opposite

 

Is the chicken skin on?? if not I would keep the skin, try a little oily fish too if you can get some(and the dogs will eat it) and just increase the overall amount slightly

 

I dont do lb's v well but guessing that somewhere like 20Kg which would mean roughly 400 - 600g meat a day - if you were just feeding raw

Just be careful not to add too much extra - 50g a day dosent look like much but it can make a big difference

[bcnewe2]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

He gets about 1/2# to 3/4# of meat per day. The chicken and turkey still have skin on. It sure looks like allot when I eyeball it. I've been cheating the older girls as they don't have the thin problem but aren't fat either. So now he's getting about 1/4# more than them so that would mean anywhere from 3/4-1 lb of meat then in the evening I give the rest 1/2 cup of kibble (I upped his kibble to 1 cup till I could figure out what else to add) with toppings on that. Cottage cheese, sardines, olive oil ect. They all get fish oil, he gets 2 capsules a day and they're the extra large size (double the mg's from the bottle I bought before this one)

So tonight I made a sloup of whole grain pasta, whole grain brown rice, smashed butter beans (lima beans) and creamed corn. Put that on top of his kibble but cut the kibble back to 1/2 cup cause as soon as I upped it to 1 cup within 3 days I had to do his anal glands again and he hadn't needed them done since starting this experiment. BTW I"ve tried all kinds of dog food but have always had to do his hinny business. It was just something I thought he'd always need, never making a connection to food.

 

I have quality ground flax seed, bought it for me and can't stand the texture. I might have to give that a try.

 

I will feel him up tonight, I didn't see hip points protruding when he was wet but he looked really sucked in as Pammyd described. He is very musled but has always been pretty fit (or so I thought)

 

I was trying to stay away from having to make it a bigger deal than it is, as when I go out of town I have my 17 year old son do the feeding and he's not into making it a job. Plus, this is way more work than kibble but the benefit is so great I will keep at it and I'm sure it will become routine.

 

The deer meat I've been feeding is the only meat that I have that seems really lean. The ground beef is 25% fat, I can see the fat on the chicken they get and the beef heart has a pretty good layer of fat on the top. I give organ meat about once a week but usually mix it in with something else as it looks so rich I was afraid of potty issues.

 

It's amazing how much more meat than kibble they need.

 

The kibble I've been using is Diamond Naturals chicken and rice but since I'm using such a small amout I was thinking that I could absorb the extra cost of some better kibble. Now I just have to find somewhere around here to get it.

 

I do reg. parasite checks and reg. worming as we've battled tape off and on for a long time but his poo looks great, tiny little puppy size pieces, firm but not real hard. He's a dog that really shows signs if wormy (he roachs up his back)

 

I'm still baffeled with the anal gland situation. He's been a dog that NEEDED them expressed on a reg. basis or he'd get infected or impacted. It's been so nice to find him empty. Plus he's never looked healthier. His stamina has improved, I was at a fun day this past weekend where I hadn't seen some of the people for a few months. Almost everyone that knows him commented on how well he is doing. Then I got some bi**ching about him being to thin when others saw him in the stocktank. We were able to run the course a couple of times then we set sheep for about 10 runs and he still had energy to burn which is not his usual self. I normally run out of dog if I run him on an open field more than twice. I think it's more the mental pressure cause I can use him all I need at home when he knows the job and there's no stress or it's not to hot.

 

No matter what we're so happy the 2 of us. He's finally showing his true self on the trial field, the one I always get to see at home or other places when we're farm sitting or just fiddling about. Somehow either my nerves or his always keep us from doing our best in a trial situation. Something clicked and we were even getting our shed, something that we've struggled with for a long time. So I think even tho he's thin, he's quite healthy and totally happy.

I sure most of you don't remember that this is the dog that almost died between the age of 1-2. He was diag. with Lymes, and Rocky Mt. It took till he couldn't walk to get a diag. We went though 4 vets and 1 1/2 years to get him back to a working dog. He's 5 now. So anything I get out of him is a blessing. I thought I had all there was till this new diet. Now he acts and looks like a reg. dog!

 

Thanks again for all you suggestions. I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Now if I could eat the same and lose the same weight I'd be styling out there too!

[pammyd]

I will feel him up tonight, I didn't see hip points protruding when he was wet but he looked really sucked in as Pammyd described. He is very musled but has always been pretty fit (or so I thought)

 

I was trying to stay away from having to make it a bigger deal than it is, as when I go out of town I have my 17 year old son do the feeding and he's not into making it a job. Plus, this is way more work than kibble but the benefit is so great I will keep at it and I'm sure it will become routine.

 

 

 

It's amazing how much more meat than kibble they need.

 

 

I do reg. parasite checks and reg. worming as we've battled tape off and on for a long time but his poo looks great, tiny little puppy size pieces, firm but not real hard. He's a dog that really shows signs if wormy (he roachs up his back)

 

I'm still baffeled with the anal gland situation. He's been a dog that NEEDED them expressed on a reg. basis or he'd get infected or impacted. It's been so nice to find him empty. Plus he's never looked healthier. His stamina has improved, I was at a fun day this past weekend where I hadn't seen some of the people for a few months. Almost everyone that knows him commented on how well he is doing. Then I got some bi**ching about him being to thin when others saw him in the stocktank. We were able to run the course a couple of times then we set sheep for about 10 runs and he still had energy to burn which is not his usual self. I normally run out of dog if I run him on an open field more than twice. I think it's more the mental pressure cause I can use him all I need at home when he knows the job and there's no stress or it's not to hot.

 

No matter what we're so happy the 2 of us. almost died between the age of 1-2. He was diag. with Lymes, and Rocky Mt. It took till he couldn't walk to get a diag. We went though 4 vets and 1 1/2 years to get him back to a working dog. He's 5 now. So anything I get out of him is a blessing. I thought I had all there was till this new diet. Now he acts and looks like a reg. dog!

 

Thanks again for all you suggestions. I will keep you posted on the outcome.

Now if I could eat the same and lose the same weight I'd be styling out there too!

 

Sounds like you have nothing to worry about really - they do look a bit dramatic espech if they are fluffy and you get them wet - but if he feels good to you then he is fine - its just cos we are used to seeing dogs with full tummies - and dogs that are overweight

rem its far healthier to be thiner

 

Lots of people on raw notice the anal gland thing - its cos his poos are firm enough to clean them out the way nature intended

 

Surprised you need so much more raw than you did with kibble - Ben needed the same amount when we switched

 

Glad he is doing so well - espech after the dodgy start

 

) I tried a version of the diet - cut out all carbs but lots of veg and dairy (my dogs are prey modlers - only meat, bone and organ) and the weight just fell off me and I had so much more energy - I will have to try it again this year

 

 

I did notice when I switched Ben he had far more energy - but better focus too - can concentraite for much longer - guess its like giving kids junk food then good food