Jump to content
BC Boards

Help please ;)


Recommended Posts

hello,

we have a female 3 year old bc that we've had since it was 8 weeks old and yesterday we bought a female 10 week old puppy bc. They both started off together pretty good yesterday but today the started snarling and snapping at each other :rolleyes:

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make them 'like each other'?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure more experienced puppy-raising people can give you some detailed suggestions, but I have had success making introductions slowly and with a lot of supervision.

 

So, at our household, the new dog first has separate time in the house and yard (when the "resident" dogs are confined elsewhere). This period might last for days or for weeks, depending on the new dog's personality. Then all the dogs get to meet briefly in the yard. Then we move on to carefully supervised time when they are all loose in the house or yard. Only after several weeks or months (depending on how things are going) are all the dogs left together and unsupervised for short periods of time.

 

My experience has all been with adult dogs, though, so I hope folks with more puppy experience share their ideas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I haven't owned two dogs at the same time, I've introduced new horses to the herd and new cats to whatever you call a bunch of cats. Horses met through stall doors or fences, older cats got to meet newer ones through kennels/crates first. And much like Aljones mentioned above, lots of separation at first, then close supervision when together.

 

A new puppy, how exciting! Pictures, please :rolleyes::D:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All but, one of my Dogs find the puppies annoying and Maddie only tolerates them. I think you should limit their time together untill the pupy is bigger and can really play I also wonder if your dogs are really fighting or trying to learn to play. On this board it's called bitey face wrestling and it looks pretty fierce. Hopefull soemone can post pics of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, I don't have experience with two dogs but I can tell you that when I would bring my dog Skye (female) over to visit my friend's dog (a male, both puppies at the time -- that is, under 1 year), we had to (i) supervise their play and (ii) separate them when the excitement level got too high, resulting in snapping and snarling. So I guess what I'm saying is what others have already suggested: introduce slowly, supervise, separate and don't be concerned about being God in their eyes, i.e. immediately reacting to and not allowing bad behaviour to escalate. IME, two bitches figuring out their place can often result in more acrimony than dogs of different sexes. But I think the odds that your dogs will never get along is very low; their early life together just needs to be managed so they know what is tolerated and expected of them. It might also be wise to do a bit of research on body language, etc. -- have you got any of Ian Dunbar's books?

Good luck,

Ailsa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Afrancis, I have no books or DVD's about dogs :D. I will start looking though, do you know where I could purchase one on Ian Dunbars books in Australia??

 

Okay Australia -- I missed that part :rolleyes:

 

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResu...mp;x=76&y=9

 

This website, Abebooks, is a great resource for books worldwide. You can click on locations and they list all the sellers' addresses so you can order accordingly. There are several of Dunbar's books listed as being available from booksellers in Australia; take a look at the puppy ones and get one. They are highly recommended.

Ailsa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try Amazon for a book?

 

Puppies tend to have what is referred to as "puppy license" with most adult dogs. That means that, up to an age and up to a point, most adult dogs are tolerant of puppy antics. But, not all adults are "good" with puppies, and not all puppies have learned to take "no" for an answer.

 

Your two may be sorting things out. As said by another poster, some playtime can sound and look pretty fierce. The dogs/pups usually communicate well enough to stop that when it is getting on the brink of too much, but not all do. If that is the case, you may have to separate them and make your introductions more gradual, as already stated.

 

The pup is a bit young for this but occasionally females do not tend to get along well. Often, the best mix is a neutered male and female pair.

 

This would be a good age for you to enroll your pup in a quality puppy class, where you will get valuable training skills and can get advice, and where she will have the opportunity for socialization with other puppies and with people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of times with the older dog an introducing a pup to them it is actually there natural instincts kicking in and is actually teaching the pup. Unless the Older Female is actually biting the pup I would just limit there time together and actually let the older dog discipline her. It is the natural instinct of teaching the pup to settle down and calm down. And teaching her that this is my domain, they may never be the best of friends but I like to word it this away the older dog will eventually tolerate the pup, and will get better with some age, the older dog just doesn't like the pup jumping on her and wanting to play.

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No it is not a result of bad training, first you have the realize the pup is that it is just a puppy. And is nature is to want to play with the other dog, your older dog actually in some ways wants to play but he wants to play on his own terms, I would just limit there times together at first and monitor them, and I usually start with in introduce any type of newborn if it be a calve a lamb a pig or goat or puppy by telling my old dog easy its a baby and continute to tell him play nice and if you have to on your older dog settle him down a little bit in case they jump at each other a little to hard or fast and just realize the older dog has had the run of the place he has not had to share you with any other dogs and he is just a little jealous , and for your pup if he gets a little wild at jumping at him an things you will have to settle him down some and you might just start by making the pup lay one side of the room or place and the older dog lay on the other side, of the place this is also in turn teaching both your pup and also your older dog that they have boundaries.

 

Don't be afraid to discipline either of them and that is by your voice and body language, and as for your pup I know some don't like teaching that young but for myself as soon as the pup knows his name and will come to you I would start by teaching him to sit and work on just a couple minutes at a time, and when you have that accomplished go to a lie down command and stay and you will be surprised at how fast a pup can pick up on these commands. One thing about Border Collies is that they love to learn, I have actually had more than one pup together at times and why I was working with one pup to sit and do the lie down commands the other one actually was watching an started doing it on her own.

 

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have found my two warm up faster to new dogs when they walk together. This has worked with puppies and adults. When a new dog comes home we add in more walks than normal (which is alot!) Obviously with puppies we go on shorter walks. We give commands when we walk like "left, right, straight or cross," as well as having everyone stop and sit at the corners. This seems to make them feel more like a cohesive unit. (LOL I guess the military has some good techniques) It also lets everyone know that all dogs listen to us and that walks are a zen like time for focus and enjoyment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, be sure your older dog has a place she can go AWAY from the puppy, to be sure she can get some personal space if need be. Sometimes, things will escalate simply because there is no escape route for one or the other.

 

Puppy teeth HURT. In your older dog's defense, she may just be letting the puppy know that OUCH that hurts, don't DO it! At the same time, if your little puppy happens to have an alpha attitude about things, that could be one reason that this keeps escalating. Has your puppy shown any signs of food aggression? Toy aggression? Does she growl/snap when the other dog goes for her toys, or does she share nicely?? If she's doing any growling/snapping over food/treats/toys/attention being HERS, then I strongly recommend you read up on NILIF (Nothing in life if free) training and begin working her past these issues when she is young, before she gets bigger and things have the potential to get worse.

 

All of my dogs are girls, but I have never had one problem. There has been random occasions of mild toy aggression (Monkey will growl over a Kong she's cleaning if Ido hovers near, or Ido will snap if she gets really pumped up about having her ball thrown and Monkey tries to take it.) In both cases, I "Aaah leavit!" the dogs, make them back away from the desired object, and while the object goes up, the growler/snapper gets a time-out. (The idea is, if you try and guard IT, IT goes away, and you're right where you don't want to be, which is out of the fun.) We also had a firm 'LEAVIT' command in place before this, as well. My dogs are mild, though, and this works for them...keep in mind every dog is different, and those that are more reactive may not respond so well.

 

Just some food for thought...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, be sure your older dog has a place she can go AWAY from the puppy, to be sure she can get some personal space if need be. Sometimes, things will escalate simply because there is no escape route for one or the other.

 

Puppy teeth HURT. In your older dog's defense, she may just be letting the puppy know that OUCH that hurts, don't DO it! At the same time, if your little puppy happens to have an alpha attitude about things, that could be one reason that this keeps escalating. Has your puppy shown any signs of food aggression? Toy aggression? Does she growl/snap when the other dog goes for her toys, or does she share nicely?? If she's doing any growling/snapping over food/treats/toys/attention being HERS, then I strongly recommend you read up on NILIF (Nothing in life if free) training and begin working her past these issues when she is young, before she gets bigger and things have the potential to get worse.

 

All of my dogs are girls, but I have never had one problem. There has been random occasions of mild toy aggression (Monkey will growl over a Kong she's cleaning if Ido hovers near, or Ido will snap if she gets really pumped up about having her ball thrown and Monkey tries to take it.) In both cases, I "Aaah leavit!" the dogs, make them back away from the desired object, and while the object goes up, the growler/snapper gets a time-out. (The idea is, if you try and guard IT, IT goes away, and you're right where you don't want to be, which is out of the fun.) We also had a firm 'LEAVIT' command in place before this, as well. My dogs are mild, though, and this works for them...keep in mind every dog is different, and those that are more reactive may not respond so well.

 

Just some food for thought...

 

 

Well, they both seem happy to share water & dog biscuits. And the older one doesn't really care for toys. But they just start jumping at each other and start snarling & growling every now-&-then. Also I can't walk the puppy until it gets it 2nd round of shots in a couple of weeks.

 

thanks for helping so far everyone,

-Matt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can download a free copy of Ian Dunbar's "Before You Get Your Puppy" here. Despite the title, I think you will find it very helpful (you may decide to purchase "After You Get Your Puppy" later). Also, you can read a lot of articles by Dunbar and his peers on Dog Star Daily. Click on "Training Textbook" on that page and you will find plenty of good advice.

 

And if you want to see an illustration of what the original Bitey Face Smackdown looks like, go here and scroll down a ways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's one of wrestling dogs...note the large one is content to be on the ground. If he gets mad, he stands up with tail erect and growls low...further play results in a sudden snap.

 

wrestle1.jpg

 

This morning, both the Aussie and our BC pup were making jumping attacks on Dan in the backyard. Dan stood with tail erect and feet splayed, but he didn't growl or snap - just stood there while the 10 wk old and 5 month old made leaping attacks at his face and back. When he tired of it, he trotted away.

 

It helps that Dan is 80 lbs, Rusty is 35 lbs, and Black Jack 10 lbs. There is no doubt in anyone's mind who the ultimate boss is, if he wants to claim it. If the older dog doesn't draw blood or prolonged yelping, I wouldn't get too worried. Puppies need to learn to read a dog that wants to be left alone. If they don't learn it, they turn into Labs. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really think you might be describing rough play since you said they get along in all situations. Pictures can be hard to ID play from, so I looked up video of my dogs. Perhaps this will look familiar?

 

th_MVI_4713.jpg

 

The above video shows *normal* play between my two - lots of growling sounds, mouthing, and running/circling. Hopefully what you're seeing is pure play that just looks scary; it'd be pretty unusual for a 10 wk old pup to actually be behaving aggressively with an adult.

 

eta - better quality pics to see some close up action from a similar play session:

 

Ziva006.jpg

 

IMG_3849.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, ok, thanks. and does anyone know anything about the 3 year old walking up to the pup and barking then running away??

 

To me that sounds pretty clearly like play. Here are a couple of my favorite adult dog play photos:

093535.jpg

093634.jpg

 

These two dogs loved each other. (I know, I know--I'm anthromorphizing.) Whenever this reddish-brown mix came up with her family to stay at the neighboring condo, she would sneak off and make her way up painfully up our metal prong staircase (non-slip for skiers) to our door to find Zia.

 

As for adult-puppy play, here's Zia chewing on a puppy:

091526.jpg

 

Here's the two of them challenging each other:

091659.jpg

 

And here's the same puppy, now one-year-old, facing off with a new puppy:

150650.jpg

 

Any of this look familiar?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...