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Our border collie pup is dying....


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I'm sorry to hear about Asker. In the rescue we worked for, a litter of puppies came in with parvo (there were 7 puppies)--three of them came down with it and were very, very sick (and they were younger than 5-mos), but all three came through.

 

We'll be keeping you and Asker in our thoughts.

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According to the website kibbles posted, once a dog gets parvo, they have it for life, and it can pop up and make the dog sick again at any time. That vacs. for it are no longer any use. Don't know for sure, never had a dog with parvo. The web site indicated it was because it is a viral disease that it can't be "cured". Did I read it wrong? All the best to you and your pup, hope it all works out.

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we just got a fax tonite from the vet. She tested positive for parvo. She was tested last sat and it was negative!!

 

I'm just heartsick about it and we were told it will be 800-1500 to save her. The vet is going to do everything he can to save her. He said that her mortality rate is 30%. Right now my mind is not on the breeder but on saving Asker. <snip>

 

Tell me...are we too late to save her?? What are her chances and what is her long term outcome??

 

We have parvo pups come through rescue more often than we'd like, but, as your vet said, the odds are in their favor if it's caught quickly and treated. I mean, 30% mortality is 70% chance of survival, right? :rolleyes: Most of ours make it just fine and go on to lead happy healthy lives. It's not uncommon at all with shelter pups, which is where many of our rescues come from.

 

Did you say you've had her three weeks? You might check on the incubation period for parvo, but I believe it is fourteen days at the outside. At least, that's how long I quarantine shelter pulls who come to my house. I believe our vet says most cases show symptoms within five to ten days of exposure. So the source of infection is likely close to home. Parvovirus can live in soil for months and months - and dogs who survive can continue to shed the virus in their stools for a long time.

 

Is there a way you can verify her vaccination record, or did the breeder give the vaccinations herself?

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As someone else said, parvo can live in the environment for a while. I would certainly not bring any pups or unvaccinated dogs into any of the areas used by Asker, and because I prefer to err on the side of safety, I would ditch anything she chewed on, etc. that aren't easily disinfected and then disinfect everything else.

 

As for whether the breeder is responsible, I think you'd have to be able to prove the pup didn't recieve the proper vaccinations, but I also think you'd have to be able to prove that you did everything possible to minimize Asker's risk of exposure (i.e., not taking her to places where other dogs might have used the bathroom, keeping her from running around at the vet's, etc.).

 

There's no way to predict whether Asker will survive, and I'll keep you all in my prayers.

 

As for sites to help you pay, I'd also recommend asking your vet if you can make payments. If you are a regular client, they shouldn't have a problem. Others have posted sites that help with vet bills, but I don't remember what those sites were. They do exist, though, and maybe someone will remember and be able to post them for you.

 

J.

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I agree with previous posts that although it's not the diagnosis anyone wants to hear, it is a good thing that it is diagnosed. You will probably want to put all your energy into getting her through this. I am so sorry this has happened to you and poor little Asker.

 

I would discard all toys and I would clean everything in the environment thoroughly with a bleach solution. Of course, I'm the one that goes around disinfecting everything in the house when someone gets the flu. But I like to err on the side of caution. Better safe than sorry...and it makes me feel better.

 

I would be surprised if you vet didn't agree to payments... most will work with you in this time of need.

 

And lastly, once you get little Asker through this, I would then pursue the breeder issue. It would be easy to find proof of shots and see if she, in fact, was vaccinated. I would do a lot of research on the disease and also on your legal rights if she indeed was not vaccinated.

 

But for now...all our thoughts and prayers go to little Asker...and her owners.

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Our youngster Lynn is a parvo survivor. She had a mild case. The test can sometimes not catch it. Lynn never tested positive though I'm sure parvo is what she had.

 

She was given a pretty low chance of survival - one in five I think. We paid nearly a thousand dollars for our "free" dog and have never looked back - she's a terrific dog, now just old enough to train without her brains falling out her ears (she's half Golden Retriever and has her silly moments).

 

I sincerely hope your commitment pays off!

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I had a pup die in the 80s...she had her vaccinations, but caught it anyways. Vaccinations are good, but not a magic bullet. Once in a while, they don't get the job done. That isn't anyone's fault. I believe parvo is more challenging than some of the others to vaccinate for, but I don't know where I read that...

 

Some good links:

 

http://www.lbah.com/canine/parvo.html#prevention

 

http://www.workingdogs.com/parvofaq.htm

 

http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/vac.html

 

Edit: this looks like the best one page link I've seen:

 

http://www.sheltermedicine.com/portal/is_p...ne.shtml#spread

 

The "parvovirus and puppy socialization" document is worth reading...link about halfway down.

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I have never heard that parvo can recur- I've never seen a dog that survived it have any lasting affects or recurrences. I have heard that parvo vaccines after a pup has survived parvo are unnecessary.

 

Have you looked into Care Credit? It's carecredit.com and it has a decent approval rate and no interest payments if you get it paid off in 3 months. There's a couple of "tricks" to getting approval, that the rep told us to try. First, they will consider ALL the income in your household and if you get declined, they will reconsider your application with a co-signer. It works just like a credit card, but make sure your vet accepts it, or if it is a matter of life/death for the pup, you may have to transfer to someone who does. If you have a good relationship with your vet, don't be afraid to ask for a payment arrangements.

 

My Jet had parvo just over a year ago, she made a complete recovery and is a healhty, worrking fool. The longer your dog survives the better her chances are so if she is showing any improvement at all, I'd keep treating her.

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Thank you all for your feedback. I'm going to make payment arrangements with the vet. When Aspen was very sick; we sold our car to pay for the vet bills..it was worth it. Will make it work; when there's a will there's a way.

 

We asked the breeder for the vaccinate papers when she had Asker shipped here from Missouri. But we never got the papers when we got her. So we asked her again for the papers..and was told she was vaccinated for it but the breeder didn't/couldn't give us papers to prove it. So I suspect she never had her vaccinates?? We are in Canada.

 

But I'm not going to look to blame anyone because right now my only main concern and focus is to save our Asker. She's our baby and we love her so much in such short time we had her.

 

Do keep her in your thoughts and that she survives thru this. I have been reading so much about pravo and learning so much about it and I learned the older the pup..the better the survival rate. She's 5 months old...so I'm hopeful. 70% chance to live thru this....that's better than 50%.

 

I just read about Charlie's untimely death so that had me in tears...especially during all this. I feel so much for Charlie's owners and their loss.

 

It's 7:30am here and I haven't heard from the vet how she's doing..they are closed today..but going to try fax them to see how she's doing. That's all that's been on my mind lately.

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I'm sorry the puppy is sick. Have you explained the financial situation to your vet? He should be able to work out a payment plan for you, or show you how to care for some of this at home. Parvo is simply supportive fluids, quiet, and rest.

 

How long have you owned this puppy? Who was responsible for the 12 week shot? Vaccines given before that date are typically ineffective because maternal immunity overrides them.

 

That said....

 

After having several cases of severe parvo in fully vaccinated 4+ months old puppies, and later seeing how healthy puppies don't get sick (or get sick only minimally) when not vaccinated I've changed my whole opinion to against parvo vaccination for my own dogs. My vet and I are comfortable with our decision on this matter. We don't mollycoddle them either - the pups are out and about in public from an early age. They have great titers (in general thats' antibody readings indicating the ability to respond to the disease).

 

Immunity is about far more that shots. Some dogs are just weaker, and if you own enough dogs, long enough, you will eventually see things like parvo. It's not anyones fault usually - just life. Despite trillions of dollars spent on research ever year we haven't gotten a number of viruses under control in human medicine either.

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According to the website kibbles posted, once a dog gets parvo, they have it for life, and it can pop up and make the dog sick again at any time. That vacs. for it are no longer any use. Don't know for sure, never had a dog with parvo. The web site indicated it was because it is a viral disease that it can't be "cured". Did I read it wrong? All the best to you and your pup, hope it all works out.

 

sounds like web foolishness to me. I don't have time to look at the sites but I've got enough medical education to be saying "huh?" right now. I've also had several parvo cases, all of which have no unresolved issues or further problems. The oldest is almost 9 now, and my Open trial dog.

 

We asked the breeder for the vaccinate papers when she had Asker shipped here from Missouri. But we never got the papers when we got her

 

If the puppy was shipped to you (I am assuming that "shipped" meant flown), it had to be vaccinated for parvo/distemper and the record of that was on the health certificate. No certificate = no shipping.

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I have seen cases where breeders used expired vaccines or did not know that they needed to be refrigerated (so the vaccine was useless). I am not accusing your breeder of doing this but am putting it out there as something that does happen. Since you have had this pup for 3 weeks she almost certainly was exposed after you got her. If you took her to the park, pet stores or even for a walk in your neighborhood she could have picked it up. Even taking your other dog to public places puts your pup at risk; you or your older dog may have tracked it home.

 

Parvo can't be "cured" because it is a virus. Developing effective drugs against viral disease is extremely difficult and costly (think of the fight against HIV, we can't cure it but we can use somewhat effective antiviral drugs to try to keep it under control). In the case of parvo you provide supportive care like IV fluids and hope that the pup is strong enough to fight it off themselves. Dogs who have had parvo are not infected for life, but there can be permanent damage as a result of the infection.

 

What's done is done, but in the future consider the cost before adding a new pet to your family. I know how expensive it can get providing end of life care to an ill pet. Make sure you are prepared to cover the vet bills of any current and future pets before buying another. Everyone thinks that puppies and young dogs will be healthy so will require minimal vet care, but just like anything in life accidents can and do happen.

 

If you have even just so so credit you may be able to get a Care Credit account (http://www.carecredit.com/). Just be aware that after the 6 month grace period the interest shoots up. You are better off making payment arrangements with your vet if you have a good relationship with them. I have both a care credit card and a regular credit card set aside just for my animals. I learned the hard way when in less than 6 months I had 4 pets requiring $1000+ in vet care that I needed to be prepared for the worst.

 

Please forgive any typos or mistakes in my post. I have the flu and my head is fuzzy.

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So she must have gotten it HERE not at the breeder's....thank you for clarifying it. We didn't take her to a dog park but we did take her out for socialization at 4 months old...thinking it was safe. How do we socialize a dog without exposing her to pravo? That's the hard part.

 

Going to scrub everything down and need to go to the store and get bleach. Our other dogs are fine but we will be watching them for signs of it too.

 

I was prepared for the vaccines, well check, etc to be done with the puppy..but never thought that she would get parvo since I thought a pup won't need emergency treatment. This is something I learn out of all this. But no regrets getting Asker. I'm going to do everything for her regardless the costs. She's worth it in my opinion.

 

We just got a fax as I typed this....

 

Heart in throat wondering if she survived thru the night.....fax says she's wagging her tail...that's a good sign. And we can't visit her since she's in insolation but we can see her thru a window but that's it. At least she's still alive. I'm hopeful.

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I thinking comparing parvo to HIV is a *big* jump. I think one that may not be possible without landing at the bottom of a cliff titled "You've Got to be Kidding". There are many kinds of viruses, and without getting into the microbio of it I would daresay that parvo, flu, and HIV are barely cousins. (any of you biologists can take this one and run with it...I'd love to see your answer)

 

In human's parvo is "Fifth's Disease" which is caught as a child typically, requires no signficant treatment, and never occurs again. Again, hardly comparible to HIV.

 

You've got the flu virus. When you get well you will carry antibodies to that virus. You won't catch it again unless you have complete immune failure. (definately another thread there) Which is why the "Spanish Influenza" that killed so many across the globe...will not repeat. Another flu maybe, but its got to be new enough that cross immunity from prior flus known to th body can't respond to it.

 

Hopefully care credit can help this person out.

 

Repeat cases of parvo must be incredibly rare. I would not consider a puppy who has it one week, and then is "ok" the next, then sick the week fter that to be a repeat. I consider that the same illness, and probably a weak puppy who caught something else or who's reacted to some form of the treatment.

 

Sulfa drugs would rarely be appropriate for a puppy sick with a virus (and stressed) because the combination can trigger autoimmune reactions/disease such as Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia.

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fax says she's wagging her tail...that's a good sign. And we can't visit her since she's in insolation but we can see her thru a window but that's it. At least she's still alive. I'm hopeful.

 

I'm gonna take that and run with it as a really good sign. Fingers crossed. Keep us posted. :rolleyes:

 

I think a lot of the things posted here about people who have had dogs with parvo that survived it has been very supportive and hopeful..it's wonderful that we can all share such experiences.

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I thinking comparing parvo to HIV is a *big* jump. I think one that may not be possible without landing at the bottom of a cliff titled "You've Got to be Kidding". There are many kinds of viruses, and without getting into the microbio of it I would daresay that parvo, flu, and HIV are barely cousins. (any of you biologists can take this one and run with it...I'd love to see your answer)

 

I use the analogy because billions of dollars and countless man hours have been thrown at HIV yet no cure has been developed. The comparison was not meant to illustrate the seriousness of parvo or it's evolutionary relationship to HIV but the difficulty of developing drugs that can cure viral diseases.

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I use the analogy because billions of dollars and countless man hours have been thrown at HIV yet no cure has been developed. The comparison was not meant to illustrate the seriousness of parvo or it's evolutionary relationship to HIV but the difficulty of developing drugs that can cure viral diseases.

 

Agree with you on that one :rolleyes: When they cure the common cold I think we will be in business! I want some stock on that drug LOL

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I thinking comparing parvo to HIV is a *big* jump. I think one that may not be possible without landing at the bottom of a cliff titled "You've Got to be Kidding". There are many kinds of viruses, and without getting into the microbio of it I would daresay that parvo, flu, and HIV are barely cousins. (any of you biologists can take this one and run with it...I'd love to see your answer)

I don't think Liz was comparing the end result of infection with HIV vs. infection with parvo, nor did she state that one virus is like the other (i.e., in the same class of virus). What she was saying is that you can't actually "cure" a viral disease, as evidenced by the amount of research that has been put into HIV, with the result being treatments, but not cures. I don't see why that warrants a "you've got to be kidding" response from anyone.

 

Nepsa,

Stressed bodies usually have weakened immune systems. It's possible that the pup had a lot of stressors in its life before it ever got to you (and airline travel is also stressful to young animals), with the result that she had a weakened immune system to start with, making her more susceptible to picking up something like parvo in her new environment.

 

As to your question of socialization, no place is perfect, but with any youngster, I'd stay away from areas frequented by large numbers of dogs with unknown health or vaccination status, such as dog parks, pet stores, or anywhere that folks routinely congregate with pets. You can still socialize within those constraints--it just takes a little more care and work on your part.

 

I wish you the best of luck with Asker.

 

J.

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Agree with you on that one :D When they cure the common cold I think we will be in business! I want some stock on that drug LOL

 

Me too, cuz I've got some nasty virus right now and am going to be miserable starting tomorrow. I'll be outside all week doing herd checks :D At least it is not 10F out like last week. The manure was freezing on my glove before I could get to the next cow. :rolleyes:

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Smile....fingers cross she makes it....that's all that's on my mind those days. Woke up 7am which is not like me...and it feels empty without her here.

 

Yes I remember you..we talked about our deaf dogs. We loved Aspen so much and had 12 wonderful years with her. We hope to have the same with Asker too. We just love the BC breed itself. Hubby still misses Aspen so it's going to be a dbl whammy if we lose Asker too. We won't get another one for a year or more if we do lose Asker. We need to heal...

 

We will keep you updated on how Asker is doing...at this point she's alive and wagging her tail which I feel is a positive sign and with her being a BC...stubborn breed/a fighter. She has a good fighting chance being a BC. Since I know BC are very resilient breed and they don't give up easily.

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Yikes about the manure!! That's COLD!! It was -29 here last week..but now is warmer..around -10 now. We have 4 feet of snow and it's snowing again. At least our 5 yr old dog LOVES the snow...she's screaming and yelping as she plays in the snow..such a silly and vocal dog.

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