kibbles Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Ok this morning I was surfing the net and came across this article about dogs having a sense of fairness.... http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/270737.php the funny thing is the border collie was taken out because he was trying to herd all the dogs have any of you noticed the fairness thing with your border collies?? does this mean i have to buy pepper just as many toys as my kids this christmas we only have one dog which is our border collie, so would like to know if any of your dogs react the way this article says?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 All of my dogs through the years have shown this sort of thing. My first Lhasa thought he was big as a house and couldn't understand why my parent's shepherd mix got a big biscuit and he got a small one (and he'd steal the other dog's cookie the second he could). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Hello Everyone, Here is a link to the Washington Post article with a video showing the dogs and the researcher. Washington Post article: Dogs Show Envy Regards to all, nancy PS...I hope that the link works, and that you do not have to be a Post subscriber to view it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Sorry...duplicate post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kibbles Posted December 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Nancy, guess they left another bc in:) great video, thank-you for adding the link. that was awesome to watch. i have to say i felt bad for the bc though not getting any treats. hope he/she was well rewarded after for his/her efforts in this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Hi again, Here are the photos that were with the print edition of the Washington Post article, and the Border Collie's expression in the third photo is priceless! Regards, nancy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppytoes Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 I read about this in the paper the other day and i was wondering whether the relationship (or lack thereof) between the dogs wold make any difference. In a pack situation (from what i understand) the more alpha dogs tend to get stuff (whatever it is) first and often more of it. I know that at my house, Laska (my alpha dog) gets to go through doors first, she eats first, only she gets to lick the spoon etc. and Orbit has no issues with that. However, i am pretty sure that if it was another dog (one that he did not respect as his superior) he might act out. So i was wondering if that would have any bearing on an experiment like this one. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 I know that through the years, some are more sensitive to others. When I had 6, everyone in the group realized "Miss Lacey" rode in the front seat and they rode in the canopy. It was something they expected. Miss Lacey was here first and they just figured out that was the way it was. She was TOTALLY the alpha dog (even over me at first-my first BC) I learned after that and some obedience classes. Now, I only have 2. Usher and my rescue, Bliss, which my Mom refuses to let me find a home for- she loves her and I can't take that away from her. Always a 3rd crate for another (after Christmas and snow) Dog's seem to know their place in the pack. For me, with only 2 right now -whew- When they get a "cookie" I say their name first - they both must sit in front of me - I say Bliss, cookie- then she takes it- then "Usher, cookie" and he takes it. It's a form of sharing and they know that I always have 2. YET......they must wait their turn patiently for their treat. Works for me. I hope I helped a tab bit. OH- P.S. Puppytoes, have you tried changing roles? Giving Orbit the treats first and see what happens? I don't let Usher go through doors before me, as he's a service dog- I always tell him "wait" and "Ladies first". LOL. Like he gets the idea of "Ladies first" They are so smart, I'm sure he's got it figured out. Let us follow all our your progress. It's nice to hear how good things turn out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth77 Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 I feel so sorry for the BC , maybe cos he/she looks so like Meg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Did you ever think it might be how we treat them? I treat them all differently. Some better on one day than the other but they all get their turn. IMO they "get away with" what you let them. If one always rides in the front then that's the routine. If one gets fed first then again, that's the routine. I know we have our routines but I think they're more mine than theirs. They'd all take a second, third or fourth treat and will all try the poor me look to get one and they all walk away as if they got jiped when there's no more, but I suspect it's just a disappointment to them that the treats are gone. As far as the door thing, I just don't get the alpha relationship there. At our house whoever makes it out the door first is the one closest to it. But they all stay if I say to or come indivualy by name if that's what I want. Someone once told me that they should always wait till I go out, same with the food and alpha eating first. I figure, only when it suits me. Yes they have a pack order but it's fluent, not as rigid as you'd think. Couldn't the experiment in the article (I only got to read it, not look at any video) really just show that the dog that didn't get offered the treat didn't offer the behavior because of just that, no reward? Not because the other dog got one? I think all my dogs would keep trying to earn the "treat" unless it wasn't high value enough to want. My dogs won't take treats sometimes, I think it's cause they just don't want it or again, it's not high value so no interest. But I think they'd keep trying to do what I ask, just to please me, is that a treat in it's self? JM2cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 I have a doggie door, and have had up to 6 dogs here. And a very small back porch. So, I taught all the dogs that when I come home, I say, get in the house and they do so I can get in with out being knocked off the porch. Same thing for leaving the house. But the front door, no one is allowed to go out till I say. I don't feel there is anything alpha/non-alpha about that. As far as the test they did, I think the BC just decided maybe doing nothing was the way to get a treat, so it tried that. I wonder if it is the way you treat each dog, rather than in comparison to another dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 when playing petch my dogs BCs will make sure everyone has a turn to throw the toy, so instead of bringing the toy back to the same person everytime they will take it to the next person to throw, then the next and so on. sometimes they will let each person do a few throws etc.. its quite amusing lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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