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anyone have experience with pre-renal dogs?


Dal & Mad's Mom
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Dave is in the beginnings of kidney problems and the vet thinks he's about 8 years old (poss a little more).

 

The vet really didnt have any specific recommendations although he did say no teeth cleaning. He also said he would like Dave to gain about 5lbs.

 

That doenst seem to be happening no matter how much we make sure he eats but, he does have a pretty high activity level. He's one of those nervous watchful types.

 

Any specifc recommendations from peoples experiences?

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Dave is in the beginnings of kidney problems and the vet thinks he's about 8 years old (poss a little more).

 

The vet really didnt have any specific recommendations although he did say no teeth cleaning. He also said he would like Dave to gain about 5lbs.

 

That doenst seem to be happening no matter how much we make sure he eats but, he does have a pretty high activity level. He's one of those nervous watchful types.

 

Any specifc recommendations from peoples experiences?

 

 

Okay, how can a vet have no idea what to do about Renal failure - I would be changing vets and fast. Protein levels are imporant - lower protein diet and you have to watch potassium etc. Did you have blood work done to show that he is in the early stages of renal failure?

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You wouldn't drop protein in early renal failure. You do need to be conscious of using quality protein, avoid preservatives and colorings - anything that is work for kidney to process. You also need to learn about what drugs she can and cannot take in case of emergency.

 

I've found this website very helpful and using the information have been able to reduce Jo's creatinine from over 3 the 2.1 Her diet is 1/2 rawand 1/2 cooked right now, and for many years before that it was all raw.

 

Her diet required extra detail because she also has a failing liver and chronic pancreatitis.

 

I'm happy to report that she's having a happy life at age 17 years, 9 months of age. There is a degree of luck to this, but more than that is becoming educated and carefully planning diet to maintain remaining function.

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You wouldn't drop protein in early renal failure. You do need to be conscious of using quality protein, avoid preservatives and colorings - anything that is work for kidney to process. You also need to learn about what drugs she can and cannot take in case of emergency.

 

I've found this website very helpful and using the information have been able to reduce Jo's creatinine from over 3 the 2.1 Her diet is 1/2 rawand 1/2 cooked right now, and for many years before that it was all raw.

 

Her diet required extra detail because she also has a failing liver and chronic pancreatitis.

 

I'm happy to report that she's having a happy life at age 17 years, 9 months of age. There is a degree of luck to this, but more than that is becoming educated and carefully planning diet to maintain remaining function.

 

 

How do you manage to keep the diet on track with more than 1 dog? We feed the best food we can get which is usually really good. Sometimes we mix in a little dog chow if it's donated.

 

Mom and I were talking about giving Dave a cooked diet as he's her Special rescued dog.

 

Mom's his 3rd home at least if not more. So, we know little of his life other than a brief phone conversation with his last home. His real age was pretty close off by a year or so.

 

We always thought he was thin but, were surprised that his blood work was off to the point he couldnt have his teeth cleaned. (his breath stinks some days)

 

Thanks for the web site. We want to take a proactive approach if we can to help himbe well for as long as we can.

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I'd be looking for a new vet. One of my cats, age 15 or so, has some renal failure, and my vet was very specific about what his blood/urine results were, what to watch for, what to do, etc.

 

Good luck with Dave - Dr. Reif said many cats, so I would hope dogs as well, can live good healthy lives in spite of renal failure, if they are well cared for.

 

Ruth

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I feed my dogs in their crates - Sara's diet is a little different than the other dogs, Ben is a resource guarder, Rocky will steal anyone's food who will let him and Katie won't object if someone (Rocky) sticks his head in her bowl - so crate feeding assures each dog gets his/her amount and type of food.

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How do you manage to keep the diet on track with more than 1 dog? We feed the best food we can get which is usually really good. Sometimes we mix in a little dog chow if it's donated.

 

With more complicated diets like Jo's I first establish a simple menu of food combinations that are "ok" to feed. That way if someone else in the family is responsible, they only have to have a peek at the list and match up the supplements. Later as everybody gets comfortable we branch out a bit. I also keep a small bag of a *quality* (for her, Wellness Senior is ok) kibble that is appropriate for her condition if we just don't have time for anything else, or if somebody is new to helping us. Because of her age and condition she can *not* fast -which is what I would do with a healthy dog on an occassaional basis (like when I forget to thaw anything - did I mention being organized was essential?)

 

Currently I'm feeding 18 dogs. 16 on raw, and 2 on a combination diet for specific issues. I usually am done - feeding to cleaning - in about 30 minutes. 10 if I feed everybody at the same time in the kitchen. When they have bones I crate or kennel them so we don't have them on the couch with them LOL

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With more complicated diets like Jo's I first establish a simple menu of food combinations that are "ok" to feed. That way if someone else in the family is responsible, they only have to have a peek at the list and match up the supplements. Later as everybody gets comfortable we branch out a bit. I also keep a small bag of a *quality* (for her, Wellness Senior is ok) kibble that is appropriate for her condition if we just don't have time for anything else, or if somebody is new to helping us. Because of her age and condition she can *not* fast -which is what I would do with a healthy dog on an occassaional basis (like when I forget to thaw anything - did I mention being organized was essential?)

 

Currently I'm feeding 18 dogs. 16 on raw, and 2 on a combination diet for specific issues. I usually am done - feeding to cleaning - in about 30 minutes. 10 if I feed everybody at the same time in the kitchen. When they have bones I crate or kennel them so we don't have them on the couch with them LOL

 

I looked at the website and it looks like the food plan is pretty easy since your only in the beginning looking for higher fat protien and making sure you dont get too much phos..

 

I wish I remembered if he liked green tripe as we can get the solid gold pretty easily. I'm sure my dogs wouldnt mind if he turned his nose up at it. lol

 

For the people who are upset with the vet. Dave isnt my dog and I didnt take him to the vet so my info is put together second hand.

 

Oh and thanks for the crate suggestion we use it for alot of dogs but, Dave is a phobic so that last crate he was in went in the trash.

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Sheryl,

You might want to talk to the vet about pulsative antibiotic therapy. Often when the teeth are really bad, infection can become systemic, which creates problems with kidney function. It's a vicious cycle kind of thing: bad teeth need cleaning, but kidneys can't take it, but kidney problem might be due in part to bad teeth. I have this situation right now with one of my geriatric cats. Of the two (littermates) the one who looks the worst and is the one I would have said would come back with bloodwork indicating early stage CRF, came back pretty normal (though it's probably due to the fact that he's compensating by drinking a lot of water). His sister, who is the picture of health--except from some nasty teeth--had creatinine and BUN above normal levels. I would still like to get her teeth cleaned because I think doing so would ultimately help her overall health for however long she has left in this world, but somehow I've got to try to get her renal values as close to normal limits as possible. I got her a Drinkwell pet fountain to encourage her to drink more water (and it has helped) and I am doing the once-monthly antibiotic therapy to try to counterbalance any effects her teeth might be having on her kidneys. I'm hoping that by early next year, her bloodwork will have improved to the point where she can undergo dentistry. So anyway, it's worth asking your vet about the abx therapy.

 

As for nutrition, and this is probably way more true for cats than dogs, I have decided to go the route of limited protein, but what they get is high-quality. The problem I have with many of the renal diets for cats is that they contain plant-based proteins, which I don't consider a high-quality protein source for an obligate carnivore. Not to mention that cats are notoriously picky eaters compared to dogs. Low-protein diets for CRF are a double-edged sword: Many times, the muscle wasting that you see in CRF patients is at least in part a result of the low-protein diet, which doesn't supply adequate protein for the animal to maintain muscle mass, and of course some vital organs, like the heart, are muscle. It seems that the one thing you can say about managing an animal with CRF is that there are a lot of contradictions out there and you need to do the research, talk with the vet, and settle on a solution that seems to work best for your individual animal.

 

J.

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While it probably won't be a popular solution here, I used Science Diets k/d for a dog I had with early stages of renal disease with great success. I would have never considered using Science Diet, but my vet talked me into trying it. Within a few months, his bloodwork was normal & continued to be within normal limits until his unrelated death 4 years later at age 16.

 

While keeping weight on him was an issue, I believe it was due to many factors, not just the lower protein in the k/d.

 

Good luck, gail

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