Border Collie-German Shepherds-mix?

[SS Cressa]

I hope these links work...

 

ex 1 :

http://pandashepherds.com/yahoo_site_admin...8995255_std.JPG

 

ex 2:

http://pandashepherds.com/yahoo_site_admin...8995518_std.jpg

 

ex 3:

http://pandashepherds.com/yahoo_site_admin...9100016_std.JPG

 

ex 4:

http://pandashepherds.com/yahoo_site_admin...9100124_std.jpg

 

So what is your thought on the type of breed...

Are these "purebreds" or mixes.

 

If these are in the wrong forum or are inappropriate I can take down.

 

Stella

[Laurae]

If you know they are German shepherd dog X border collie mixes, then I don't understand why you're asking if they're purebred?

 

ETA: Apparently they're not known German shepherd dog X border collie mixes. I guess I missed the question mark in the topic header!

[MrSnappy]

I read about them a while ago - they are apparently a mismark, not a crossbred. Like parti-coloured poodles I believe.

 

ETA:

 

"Panda Shepherd. Currently one family of AKC registered GSDs of German lines, that shows a new, spontaneous mutation for white spotting that exhibits an autosomal dominant mode of inheritance, consistenct with the action of a single gene acting with full penetrance. This family shows uniformly good structure and sound temperament, no discernible health affects, and is pursuing separate breed status. The unique genetics of this race are being studied at the University of California, Center for Veterinary Genetics, School of Veterinary Medicine.

 

 

Lewcinkas Franka von Phenom CD TC"

 

http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Br...reed_Types.html

 

RDM

[Chesney's Girl]

I think its another silly attempt at making a mixed breed into a pure bred.

[lrayburn]

I think its another silly attempt at making a mixed breed into a pure bred.

 

RDM - Thanks for that link. I found it very informative.

 

SLUgirl - If you read RDM's post and the link above, it seems to be a genetic mutation that occurs in purebred German shepherds - not a mixed breed.

[PSmitty]

Well, since I know Danielle can read, I have to assume they were posting at the same time. Anyway, I love the looks of the first dogs posted, though I am not a fan of German Shepherds.

[Root Beer]

Well, since I know Danielle can read, I have to assume they were posting at the same time. Anyway, I love the looks of the first dogs posted, though I am not a fan of German Shepherds.

 

I'm not, either, but if they all looked like that first one, I'd be more of a fan!!

[JaderBug]

Wow they're pretty... We'll be getting a GSD sometime down the road (fiance's favorite breed, grew up with them), and I'd love to have one of these guys, they are certainly unique, but doubt DF would want something so un-traditional, he likes the red/black and tan/black ones

[Chesney's Girl]

RDM - Thanks for that link. I found it very informative.

 

SLUgirl - If you read RDM's post and the link above, it seems to be a genetic mutation that occurs in purebred German shepherds - not a mixed breed.

 

we seemed to be posting at the same time and since I did not have the background of what these dogs backgrounds were I thought they were another attempt at a designer breed? Learn something new every day.

 

Well, since I know Danielle can read, I have to assume they were posting at the same time. Anyway, I love the looks of the first dogs posted, though I am not a fan of German Shepherds.

 

Thanks Paula

[BC-Liz]

wow those are odd looking. I have to say I like the typical marking on GSD's better than that. Though the first guy is pretty cute.

[1sheepdoggal]

So what is your thought on the type of breed...

 

Breed??!! That is just sick and wrong. About the most disgusting excuse for a GSD Ive ever seen. Its a freak, and I refuse to ever acknowledge it as a GSD! Matter of fact, it just down right pisses me off.

Ive spent to many years trying to stablize, preserve, and improve the breed to accept even the mere thought of........ of........that! Grrrrrr

They should have been culled at birth.

 

When ever you think GSD, Just keep thinking like this.

Cain. Taken 3 months ago he'll be 9yrs this March

[sea4th]

My eyes and my brain are at odds with each other looking at these pictures of a dog with border collie markings in a GSD body. Just not registering. Mutations occur, yes, but it sounds like whoever is promoting "panda" GSD's is also trying to capitalize on this mutation.

 

The first time I saw or heard of "panda" shepherds is when I read about a "rare breed" show where there was a class --- and entry for panda shepherds, so this mutation appears to have some serious promoters --- other than $$$, why, I don't know --- and it takes something away from the breed. The dogs shown look sound, sounder than a lot of the GSD's I've seen, but that color ----

 

Compare one of the dogs from above:

 

http://pandashepherds.com/yahoo_site_admin...9100016_std.JPG

with this one: -- this is Jack, Flick's littermate, Pete's son, owned by a good friend of mine. He is also in the BC museum in the section on saddle patterned border collies:

[Northof49]

They should have been culled at birth.

 

I don't agree. I don't think any dog should pay with their lives just because they aren't the right colour or the right markings. They should be spayed or neutered.

 

I can certainly understand and appreciate the concern of GSD breeders with this mutation, particularly when people are going to starting trying to make big bucks on "rare panda" Shepherds.

[PSmitty]

I don't agree. I don't think any dog should pay with their lives just because they aren't the right colour or the right markings. They should be spayed or neutered.

 

That's what I was thinking.

[JaderBug]

They should have been culled at birth.

 

This is a bit extreme (ok REALLY extreme...). Why should you punish a potentially wonderful dog based on its color? It seems not all that different from a mutt to me anyway IMO... and in my mind if you start culling a dog like that because it doesn't fit into the GSD standard, then by the same manner we'd have to start culling BCs that didn't make the working cut. That's a lot of dead BCs, and loss of a lot of wonderful pets.

[in2adventure]

I agree about not culling dogs because of color. Didn't farmer use to cull white BC's because they thought they wouldn't work sheep? Just fix the puppies or the parents to prevent more mutations from showing up. IMO, puppy culling should be reserved for sickly or malformed animals.

 

I also think they are trying to capitalize on their "rare" color. Just like blue, merell or red BC's are sold for more money because they are "prettier" in some eyes. It's sad to see the GSD coming to this.

[Krambambuli]

Culling? That's a bit extreme. Not breeding the dog, a much easier and humane solution if color is so upsetting (though I don't quite understand why). I'm not sure these panda dogs will be healthy in the long run, if they come from such limited stock, but I think they are pretty. I love mutts (even technically these are not mutts, of course). Making extra money because of color is strange -- after all, a dog is a dog is a dog. We might all have preferences for different color schemes, but that has nothing to do with the dog's heart and soul.

 

The page RDM referenced was very informative with all the different types of GSDs. I prefer the look of the old type German dogs.

[1sheepdoggal]

I reckon, for those that dont agree and consider my ideas extreme, well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. As well, I am entitled to mine. Had those types of pups been born in a litter of GSD"s I produced, thats what would have happend. They would have been promptly taken to a vet and humanly PTS. I have a very low tolerence level for gross negligence where a breed that already has so many problems due to unethical GSD breeders, and those that only see dollar signs attached to them, that as far as Im concerned, this is just another of exactly what has brought the GSD breed to where it is today.

You have only seen pics of the dogs that are healthy, the gene pool has to be so small, that Im sure there are more, and will continue to be more casualties of "breeding for the Color" How many times a yr do you think a bitch that produces those candy colored pups will be bred to fulfill the needs, er, wants of John Q Public and a breeders kennel for their "breeding program?" How humane is that? And lets not forget, the dogs that do produce the color, will most likely, not even be a good representitive of the breed. Personally, I think the dogs that produced this color should have been promptly spayed and neuterd the second they produced a pup like that, then the question of culling wouldnt even need to arise, however, they are not being spayed and neutered, nor do I feel that dogs produced as such, and the people that paid thousands of dollars for their "Rare Color"puppies will spay and neuter their dogs and will in fact be producing more and more of these mutations. Had they been culled at birth, they wouldnt be out there right now, producing more and more of them, and trying to split the breed off to form their own registry. Heres where Im coming from to put it in a nut shell. The German Shepherd Dog is a working breed. Sound familiar? Breeding for color and not function, takes much from the breed. Sound familar? In order for the GSD to function as a working dog, temperment is a biggie. Soundness, is a biggie. Color, is not a factor in form or function, or temperment. However, if you are breeding for color, does that not take away from all of the above? Sound familiar? I would not try to impose my ideas on other folks as to what they should do or how they should feel, to cull or not to cull, it is only my opinion, which if Im reading the OP"s opening statement on this thread correctly, say's "What do you think?" Thats my opinion, thats what "I" think. If others dont agree, thats fine, I do not intend to get into a pissing match with anyone over what I think. I will simply try to explain why I feel this way. Culling within the breed, is still very much praticed. It is kept quiet these days, because of all the bleeding hearts, but it is indeed very much still utilized within practical, ethical breeders who would breed a dog of purpose. Personally, I havent bred a litter of GSD"s in 8 yrs, and dont intend to breed them anytime soon. It has become way to difficult and expensive to find good representitives of the breed here in the states. So, any fears to potential pups, you feel my extreme ethics for breeding the GSD have put in danger of being PTS, rest assured, are safe from me. I understand that folks still wont agree with me, and thats OK. It is my experiences with the breed over a life time that have led me to my beliefs, and unless you have lived with good and bad representitives of the breed, and tried to work with and train those that are not the complete dog, its all a moot point anyway. Culling is a word that brings an uprising of emotions, I understand that, and there for will not be responding to those emotions on this thread. I have said my peace, and thoughtfully explained my reasons. And respectfully, that is all I have to say on the subject.

[Root Beer]

I have a very low tolerence level for gross negligence where a breed that already has so many problems due to unethical GSD breeders, and those that only see dollar signs attached to them, that as far as Im concerned, this is just another of exactly what has brought the GSD breed to where it is today.

 

Say one of those dogs were turned in to the SPCA as an adult. Do you think the dog should be euthanized immediately in that situation, as well?

 

(Tone of Question = Conversational)

[Laurae]

Say one of those dogs were turned in to the SPCA as an adult. Do you think the dog should be euthanized immediately in that situation, as well?

 

(Tone of Question = Conversational)

 

I'm not Darci (and I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with her position), but if the dog in question is an adult, it seems like simply spaying or neutering would achieve the same goal.

[sandra s.]

I don't get it at all. If looks don't matter in a working breed, which I thought we all agree on (?), then why on earth would you kill healthy pups just for being the wrong colour?

[1sheepdoggal]

Say one of those dogs were turned in to the SPCA as an adult. Do you think the dog should be euthanized immediately in that situation, as well?

 

(Tone of Question = Conversational)

 

Should have been culled at birth.

The parents that produced the candy colored pups should have been S/N the second they produced pups like that.

No, I dont. I thought I had been quite clear on that. If one were to show up in a shelter, I would assume it would not be adopted out without a S/N contract or would be S/N before it was adopted out, and therefore would not be a question. It is not shelters and rescues that will perpetuate this type of breeding.

[1sheepdoggal]

I don't get it at all. If looks don't matter in a working breed, which I thought we all agree on (?), then why on earth would you kill healthy pups just for being the wrong colour?

 

Because when you breed primarily for color, you are dumbing down and breeding away from other more important qualities. And I think we can/do all agree on that.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm not Darci (and I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with her position), but if the dog in question is an adult, it seems like simply spaying or neutering would achieve the same goal.

 

I actually do not think so. I totally understand the idea that such fancy coloring could endanger a breed that is already hugely fragmented and troubled with numerous health issues.

 

The existence of such dogs as pets would create more demand for them. Even if the original breeder that produced them as an "oops" was responsible about the problem - demand always creates supply in a free market.

 

Therefore I would not judge a responsible breeder who decided such candy colored dogs would not see the light of day.

[MrSnappy]

Ridiculous.

 

For a community of people who who routinely spouts off that colour doesn't matter, and that conformation is the devil's handiwork, how anyone can then suggest that some puppies who don't conform to a breed standard because they are miscoloured should be killed is pretty weird.

 

The breed spotnaneously mutated a new colour gene, assuming the history is correct. My understanding is that in every other way they are the same (shitty) GDS that exist all over North America and everywhere else that breeders have ruined for conformation purposes. Why stop at the mismarks? Hell, just kill all of them.

 

I don't have strong opinions on Panda Shepherds one way or the other. Pre-emptive puppy killing to meet an artificially mandated breed type, however, is not going to save the breed from ruination. And talking about culling is inflammatory but moot anyway, since you don't have a time machine. Too late - they're already here!

 

RDM