lucieluv Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Thank you for explaining Lucie's condition to everyone. I didn't want to even try!! All though I have a good understanding of it now, I don't feel that I could explain it to anyone else. Lucie has the immune-mediated hemolytic anemia type, and it really was just speculation that the vaccine was the cause. However, she was health prior to the vaccine and now if she is given so much as a Heartworm pill she becomes ill. I'm always looking for new treatments for Lucie. The current treatment and usually the treatment of choice can be just as harmful. But, due to all of this, my dogs get titers now, not yearly vaccines. (Except for what is required by law!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 AK Doc, thank you so much for contributing your expertise to this forum. It's getting more difficult to separate rumor from truth, fact from fiction with the vast amount of info available on the internet. In my case, my little ACD had a series of focal seizures last year (4 in 4 months). She was seen by a veterinary neurologist. After viewing the results of an MRI, the neurologist felt the seizures were likely the result of a vascular event in her brain. Going forward, she recommended that all future vaccines (except the required rabies) be avoided. My vet said he would follow this protocol, but he didn't really agree with it. She is 10 years old, and I figured she's probably had enough vaccinations that her immune system is protected. Even so, I've struggled with this issue,weighing the recommendation of the specialist against the opinion of my personal vet (who has *never* let me down). On a similar note, by brother developed a serious auto-immune system disease following vaccinations he received before going to south Asia. Were the vaccines responsible for triggering his disease or would it have surfaced anyway-who can say for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 I was just re-reading this post to be sure there wan't anything I left out (yeah, like I could include everything there is to know about this.... what am I saying?!? ) I did forget to point out that the immune system gears up to respond to both novel and "known" invaders (things it remembers) if it is NORMAL - if the animal is immunosuppressed or has another immunodeficiency, this may not happen. Even a "small" immonodeficiency - such has having IgG subclasses 2 and 4 but not 1 and 3, for instance - can prove fatal. I also wanted to mention that in a recent AAHA audio conference (3/7/06), the suggestion on vaccine protocols for NORMAL animals was to do the puppy series (not to begin prior to 6 weeks of age, vaccines to be given every three to four weeks; the suggestion was 8, 12 and 16 weeks, and they advised that at least 2 vaccines be given from 12 weeks on; hence, not 6, 9, 12), then boost everything one year later. After that, the "core" vaccines - distemper, parvo and adenovirus - would drop to a three-year protocol, unless otherwise indicted by titers. Rabies vaccine should be given as required by law in your area. Things like leptospira and bordatella will need to be boosted yearly in most at-risk animals, but not all animals are at risk for those, so let your vet advise you. Titers were felt to be most useful for adenovirus, parvo, distemper and rabies. It appears based on evidence that there is excellent correlation between the titer levels and the level of protection the dog actually has. Titers in recently-vaccinated dogs (such as pups finishing their series, for instance, or dogs being boosted because titers showed a loss of immunity) should be done no sooner than 2 weeks following the last vaccine. If good levels are not detected, re-test in 2 weeks. If good levels are STILL not detected, revaccinate (in case lingering maternal antibody blocked the vaccine or some other event occurred to prevent the dog from being properly immunized.) Rates of non-responders (as in, will NEVER produce immunity to a particular agent) were given as 1/2000 for parvo, and 1/5000 to 1/10,000 for distemper. (A given dog would NOT be expected to be a non-responder for both diseases - either/or.) Hope that makes sense to all. I think you can also get the AAHA guidelines if you want to read them. Ping me if questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted April 2, 2006 Report Share Posted April 2, 2006 Ak Dog doc how old do they recommed the dogs be before skipping and titering? Jewel got the heck vaccinated out of her when she was 9 months so I skipped a year I was planning to vaccinate Dal again and jewel as we will have the puppy. Is it safe then to wait the 3 years on Jewel? Should Dal get a 2 year old set? I did the every 3 year educated guess thing with Kirby after his 3 year shots but, he didnt really go anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 After the full series of puppy vaccines, they should be boosted 12 months later - regardless of what age they were when the "puppy" series is given. For most dogs, who get their puppy series completed by 4 months of age, that means they should be boosted about 16 months of age, more or less. For a dog who got the puppy series late, like say 6 months old, they should be boosted at a year and 6 months. If they got their first set of paired vaccines (two vaccines of the same type given 3 to 4 weeks apart, and occuring after 12 weeks of age, ie, the "puppy series") completed at a year, they should be boosted at two years. After that they should go to the three year unless there's a reason why not (and in some cases, as stated above, there IS a reason why not.) SO: puppy series, then 12 months later boost everything, then go to a three-year (except as noted above for certain exceptions: poor responders, high exposure risk, certain agents such as bordatella and leptospira, titers below protective levels, or guidelines required by law as for rabies.) Is that making sense? And as always, I can't see your dogs, so be guided by those who can, and remember that titers are safer than guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted April 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Thank you so much AK Dog Doc for all of the wonderful information! I'm going to print it out so I can sit down and pay close attention! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 AK Dog Doc, it is my understanding that the viral vaccines give much longer protection than the bacterial vaccines; is this correct? If so; that makes vaccination interesting since many are combinations of viral and bacterial. BTW, come on down and we'll make sure you get your fill of working your dogs on sheep. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Thank you ak dog doc I like my current vet but, I know he is not on board with titers. I may look for another vet in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Mark, right on both counts (now, why am I not surprised...?) Fortunately, there is a viral combination vaccine offered without lepto (which in this area is not a big issue, but for dogs that travel, it might be). Bordatella is given as a single agent. There are different lepto serovars, which do not have good cross reactivity between them as far as the vaccines go. So, if you have a dog at high risk for lepto, the advice is to use a lepto 4-way (which is a 4-way for the different LEPTO serovars, not for anything else). Lepto is a re-emerging disease, as a BTW, because people stopped vaccinating for it, so if you live in a high-risk area (ask your vet), it's probably a good idea to vaccinate yearly for that. If not, the need is less pressing. And be careful what you wish for... I might just take you up on that invite one day (probably not right away, though, so you're safe for now!) Can I bring the BF? (Hmm, maybe he should fly us down in the 180!) His dog is twice the stockdog mine is, I fear. (Sigh.) But I adore her, so I don't mind so much! (Maybe I should trade wine for orphan lambs...) Sheryl, I guess your choices are to try to talk your vet into it or to try to find one more in sync with your preferences. If you like your vet, maybe requesting (coaxing, cajoling, bribing) them to try titers would be worth the effort? Your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 I'm going to move this to the Health & Genetics forum and sticky it for now, and maybe move it to the FAQ once everyone has finished posting. Thanks everyone, especially AK dog doc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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