di59louie Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 It's been awhile since I have been on this board but I have a situation which is getting out of hand...the intent of my pursuing a B.C. was to run with one and I do on most days for min. 1 hour and maybe max 1.5 hours - I do not take him on my long runs 1-2x/wk; In the beginning of our runs he gets sooo excited that he bites me. I try to divert the energy by asking him to get a stick or give him a stick myself - he eventually stops the nipping and jumping up as the run goes longer...he never jumps or nips anyone while running on the trails - this morning I ran with a friend and Louie my B.C. bit me very hard that he broke the skin. Should I ask him to just sit and wait for 1-2 minutes before we start? I am not one to beat him into submission although I have pushed him away pretty hard from me because he hurts me. This is the only time he acts this wa. He is great with my kids and husband - it is just me - am I projecting weird energy , e.g. anticipating that this will happen? I read that aromatherapy might work - have some form of oils in the car while driving to the place we go to??? ANY SUGGESTIONS would be surely be great! I would be very very grateful! Thanks in advance!!! Diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearse Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 I read that aromatherapy might work - have some form of oils in the car while driving to the place we go to??? I have found aromatherapy very useful in calming my Border Collies before work sessions. To wit, I maintain the inside of my vehicle with an omnipresent scent of the essential oils of eau d'ovis which one can obtain very easily by working two Border Collies in very muddy sheep pens over the course of a trial weekend, and then driving home with the heat on in the truck. The omnipresent scent of sheep and sheep manure makes them feel like they are already at the worksite and they sleep like babies the whole way there. Seriously though, this is simply something you need to put a stop to. Keep him on a short leash and every time he puts his mouth on you or near you, stop, and give him a verbal correction ( a loud one - in his face one). EVERY TIME, and the run does not proceed until he is walking at heel and behaving. It might take a couple of weeks. It might take a month and you may not get many quality runs in in the mean time but the dog simple needs to learn that such behavior is not permissible. It's not any "weird energy" that you are giving off. It's a dog behaving like a brat because he is excited and is getting away with it. Pearse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 And here I've been relying on acupressure. I learn something new every time I log on here. OK, since Pearse added a seriously, I will too. I agree with the correction he suggests. And as for the dog just picking on you - I have a little BC bitch who in her last two homes has nipped feet and ankles, but interestingly, only those belonging to the man of the house. Wife feet are left unmolested. Good thing for me. But neither my DH or the husband at Vi's last home did anything to ask for it - Violet just has a short in her wiring somewhere. Correction helps - she does it far less often now - but it's not a quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Does he have a reliable lie down command? A lie down command for a BC is like an off switch to relax their brain. When you start to get ready, are leaving or whenever he first begins to get excited but before he is out of control make him lie down. No choice, no questions asked. You may need step on the lead to make him lie down. As soon as he is laying down and calm, without saying anything, start again. If he begins to get excited lie him down immediately. Don't tolerate anything but perfect calm (no whining, no pulling or straining). If you need to muzzle him during your runs to prevent a bite (and give you some confidence) then do it. Just make sure to use a basket muzzle that will allow panting. Police dog handlers prefer leather because it is supposed to be softer. A Gentle Leader head collar might also be a good option. It will not prevent biting but will give you control of his head. He is your dog and you set the rules. You do not have to beat your dog to make him listen. Just be STUBBORN and firm. If he wants to run with you then he must be calm. You are allowing him to be excited and bite you by continuing to run with him despite his poor behavior. examples of basket muzzles... http://www.dogmuzzle.com/dog-muzzles.html http://www.dogmuzzle.com/wirbasdogmuz.html http://www.dogsportgear.com/Plastic_dog_muzzles.htm http://www.dogsportgear.com/Leather_dog_Muzzles.htm Gentle Leader... http://www.buygentleleader.com/View.aspx?p...der/description Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di59louie Posted November 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 I have found aromatherapy very useful in calming my Border Collies before work sessions. To wit, I maintain the inside of my vehicle with an omnipresent scent of the essential oils of eau d'ovis which one can obtain very easily by working two Border Collies in very muddy sheep pens over the course of a trial weekend, and then driving home with the heat on in the truck. The omnipresent scent of sheep and sheep manure makes them feel like they are already at the worksite and they sleep like babies the whole way there. Seriously though, this is simply something you need to put a stop to. Keep him on a short leash and every time he puts his mouth on you or near you, stop, and give him a verbal correction ( a loud one - in his face one). EVERY TIME, and the run does not proceed until he is walking at heel and behaving. It might take a couple of weeks. It might take a month and you may not get many quality runs in in the mean time but the dog simple needs to learn that such behavior is not permissible. It's not any "weird energy" that you are giving off. It's a dog behaving like a brat because he is excited and is getting away with it. Pearse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di59louie Posted November 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Pearse, LOL! I had to laugh at the end of your suggestion...him being a "brat" maybe he is!!! I am going to trial carrying my leash and when he does this I will hook him up and just stop the run. He is a quick learn so hopefully he will "get it" fast. My issue is consistency but I am truly motivated to stop this behavior - it is soooooooo non-productive! Thanks a lot. I am also going to trial the oils. Diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di59louie Posted November 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Thanks Liz - I truly appreciate these very in your face suggestions - you are right...I will try this as well, e.g. make him lie down or sit and create calm. It is not like he has no control he does because I practice daily with him when he runs off - I call him back and make him sit and wait so I know he can do this. Sigh..........everyone is correct and I must start setting these limits at the onset. My husband suggested a muzzle as well but I will first try these other suggetsions and see what happens. There is no choice. Thanks!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearse Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Pearse, LOL! I had to laugh at the end of your suggestion...him being a "brat" maybe he is!!! I am going to trial carrying my leash and when he does this I will hook him up and just stop the run. BZZZZT! Wrong answer. You don't carry the leash and hook him up when he misbehaves. You keep him on the leash at all times until this is fixed. Otherwise he will not be close enough to you for the correction to be effective. If you are running an hour and a half, he'll get more than enough exercise running at heel. Pearse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Sounds like overarousal to me - I'd make sure I wasn't taking the dog out until he was totally chilled. My method: - get dressed, dog gets excited at all, go sit down until they settle. - dog is settled, go get dog supplies (poop bags, leash, etc.), dog gets excited at all, go sit down until they settle. - dog is settled, get final stuff (keys, coats, shoes), dog gets excited at all, go sit down until they settle and/or put the stuff back. - dog is settled, go outside (to car if driving, to start point if from home) on lead. Dog revs up, freeze; dog nips, no run for dog. - ask dog to sit, then release and go run Any nips = verbal marker, and end of run. The rules basically are that you control the activity and the dog must control himself or there will be clear, consistent consequences. You might want to look into doing this sort of thing (google "Nothing in Life is Free" or search on this board) in all aspects of daily life - dogs thrive on consistency and clear consequences ime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 I handle overstimulation in situations like these a bit differently from most, so here's a different perspective to consider. I would probably do something similar to what you suggested yourself, but instead of having him sit for 1 - 2 minutes, I would have him sit for about 10 seconds or so, run a few steps, stop and cue the sit again, and build duration from there. I would actually start this indoors - ideally in a situation that is not overly exciting for the dog. I would add in a cue like "with me" to associate with proper running. Since he is settling down later in the run, it is evident that he can run in the correct frame of mind. You just need to help him get into that frame of mind from the start of the run. If the dog nips, I would cue a sit or down - not as a correction, but to give the dog a chance to "come down" and get a grip. I'm not sure that oils would help, but it's worth a try if you want to. If you find something that works, I'd certainly be interested in knowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 As far as aromatherapy, lavendar has been shown in scientific studies in shelters to have a calming effect and chamomile has as well, but with slightly less effect than lavendar. You could easily just add a drop or two of essential oil to his collar to try it, or put several drops into a spray bottle (doesn't take much with lavendar - it's VERY aromatic in essential oil form) and spritz him right before getting ready for a run. Be sure you get essential oil, not some room spray or similar - you want the oil as pure as possible for full effect and a lot of the room spray type stuff has some nasty additives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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