New inter-pack aggression

[Sasha's Mom]

Hey guys,

 

I am having a problem with my big Grumpy boy. Some background: Nikolai was our first dog (a GSD mix), adopted from a no-kill shelter after languishing there for 8 months. At the time, they estimated his age at 3-5. We've now had him another nearly 7 years making him somewhere around 9-12. He's always been rock-steady, and fairly tolerant to new dogs. Never any hint of aggression to us, children, anyone. Often when we'd bring in a new foster, he'd take it upon himself to show that he was the boss. Once. And that was enough.

 

My problem arises in that more and more, he is getting assertive with the other dogs - picking fights with no provocation I can tell. He is doing this with fosters, Zoe and Rue and even Sassy and Sasha, who he helped raise from a puppy.

 

Just this morning, I was putting a quarantined foster out, and Nik pounced on my newest foster, who is a delightful little guy. (And was already hiding under my desk.) Normally there are 2-3 barks and a shriek, and it ends itself. This morning, I had to pull Nik off the other dog and he whirled around and made contact with my hands. I will say that he has excellent bite inhibition and didn't really leave any pressure (nor has he ever actually injured another dog, save once, and it was a tiny laceration to her leg), but I felt teeth, and he's never done that. It's just happening a LOT more frequently, to the point where I am not able to blow this off on him being grumpy as it seems like he's seeking out trouble.

 

I suppose we're off to the vet, because this is getting ridicuolus. I can chalk some of this up to curdmugeonly old age, but noticing the other dogs tiptoeing around him isn't fair to them. He had labwork done at his checkup last year, and everything looked great. Anything specific I should ask about? (Thyroid?) Thoughts? Ideas? I know he's getting up there (especially for a big dog), and his tan is going gray. When he first arrived, he was crate trained, and he still uses it as a den (although he's been stealing Rue's crate for some reason). Maybe I need to close him in...

 

Thanks,

Danielle

[Dixie_Girl]

Danielle, sorry to hear about Nik's prob! I would definitley check his thyroid. Get a full panel done on him. I would suggest this immediately. Good luck!

[SoloRiver]

I think the checkup is a good idea.

 

I am going to have an opposite opinion on this. He is your first dog, he is old, and he lives with a lot of other dogs. I too have a grumpy older male dog, and if Nik were my dog, I would not be fostering any more dogs until he was gone. Solo is the reason I don't foster, even though I theoretically now have the space and could do it. I refuse to stress him out by bringing strange dogs into the house, as I know he would not like it, at all.

 

Nik sounds like he has historically been MUCH, much more tolerant than Solo is, but he clearly isn't now. Hopefully the vet check will have some simple solution for you, but if none is forthcoming I would try cutting down on the traffic in the house and seeing if that makes a difference. I wouldn't isolate him, and I especially would not put the welfare of foster dogs over his freedom to be loose in the house.

 

Sorry, that sounded harsher than I meant it to, and we have different situations, but that was my reaction.

[MrSnappy]

I don't think that's the worst advice in the world Melanie. In the months preceding Briggs' death my time and attention were fairly consumed by Mona and her monster puppies. I think they finally moved out less than a month before Briggs died, and I still feel bad that he was so bottom tier in those weeks beforehand. Puppies are very time consuming.

 

At the same time, it sounds like Danielle has been fostering for a long time, and it doesn't appear as though it were something that stressed Nikolai out. I doubt it's stress that's bothering him now, so I'd be inclined to wait for the results of the bloodwork and vet visit before calling it "stress" or assuming the fostering is taking a toll on him. It could be something correctable (like thyroid or some pain meds) and Nikolai could then enjoy "raising fosters" for some time to come.

 

So yeah, vet visit time for sure.

 

RDM

[Lenajo]

vet check, and complete thyroid panel.

 

To add to Melanie's comment, you *could* foster, but you need to rethink how this affects your current dogs. Foster dogs need care and love, but they do not have to be "one of the family". In fact it is often much easier on all if you keep the foster's life much more defined. The existing dogs should not continuly have to adapt. Could you imagine how this would work with human fostering - if everytime you got in a new kid, your own kids had to changes rules and rooms? You'd have justifiable mutiny at home! And your own kids would learn to hate the fosters eventually because of the stress they brought with them.

 

You may find that Nikolai is much more tolerant in smaller sessions with fosters, or he may prefer to simply have areas that he doesn't have to be near them at all. It could very well be that he's simply tired of being usurped in his own home on a regular basis, and instead of just pointing that out sharply as he used too he's now making a point with both them and you.

 

I can chalk some of this up to curdmugeonly old age, but noticing the other dogs tiptoeing around him isn't fair to them

 

Again, it's his house too. You could also say that a senior citizen he deserves to walk through his own house without being badgered by strangers. He also doesn't deserve to be crated while they get free reign. At least not on a consistant basis.

[BCBaxter]

I really appreciate this post. I too have an old man at home and have limited my fostering as a result of his ability to deal with additional dogs in the house. He seems to tolerate puppies (up to a year) but when a grown dog comes in, he is less forgiving.

[Sasha's Mom]

Thanks guys.

 

And Melanie, that is honestly sort of what I've been thinking, so I appreciate your input. I probably need to hear it. From what I have read about Solo, Nik is FAR more tolerant. In fact, he's always been an easy-going kind of guy. Perhaps I have been overlooking him more than I should, and he's letting me know. And RDM, I also appreciate your comments about Mona and losing your RD. Nik has given me some cues about slowing down, but he's ALWAYS the first out in the morning, and tears across the yard like a pup.

 

As far as fostering goes, volunteering has always been a huge part of my life, and it is hard to cut back. But maybe I have to even more. The big rescue group I fostered for in Orlando doesn't give me any now unless they are unweaned puppies (and I do have a litter now, although they are in quarantine and so young that mom and they have been isolated.) And there's another rescue I've been fostering for, but will probably cut down a little as well. Or a lot.

 

I will say that my own pack has been avoiding him - at any given time, there are 2-3 or more dogs hiding in our bedroom, including the girls he's lived with for years. I guess we'll get him in with the vet pronto to get checked. I know he has some arthritis, but I've never seen him slow to get up. Maybe it's something relatively easy to fix, maybe not. But I do appreciate your input.

[MaggieDog]

I'd check for arthritis/hip/back issues. It really does sound like it could be a pain reaction (get them before they hurt me), so make sure the vet does a VERY thorough exam in addition to running blood and thyroid checks.

[bsms99]

Eyesight? Hearing? Adequate sleep? I know I'm grasping at straws...

 

My 4 year old dog, when confronted by a dog who is too pushy, energetic, etc (or our Granddaughter!) goes into our bedroom and pushes his face under the bed. It is his 'happy place'. Presumably he dreams of bitches in heat, or filet mignon that drops from the sky.

 

When my Mom entered her 80s, we tried to have her live with us. She had to move out because she became violent towards my wife and daughter. She actually punched them in the face! We were told afterwards that as senility reduced her brain, she could no longer handle loud noises (the 8 year old girl), commotion (dog), change. Since her brain couldn't process the information fast enough, or at least, not in an organized fashion, it took the overload as 'threats'. When we moved her to a quiet managed care home, she still had episodes, but far fewer and less violent.

 

I have no idea if dogs go thru the same process. It hurts like hell when it is your Mom.

[Sasha's Mom]

So we went to the vet today... and Nik didn't hold back any of his charms. The boy can be adorable and loving when he wants to be. So first, we sit in the waiting room while he patiently waits for treats. The ladies at the desk have to ruff his neck. He EATS it up. We sit nicely on the scale. We go into the room and have some more treats while we wait for the vet.

 

He got a very thorough physical - including a good look at his retinas (which is hard to do on a cooperative human, much less a dog) and the vet spent nearly 40 minutes observing and evaluating him. As he's managed to lose almost 10 lbs since his check up in Feb, we think it is unlikely to by hypothyroidism. I tend to agree. (I knew he was slimming down, but didn't realize he'd lost that much - he really looks great! ) We discussed tick diseases, but he was so busy prancing around the room that it seemed unlikely. He was back to the Old Nik.

 

So long story short (and we discussed a whole heck of a lot of possibilities), his bloodwork looked great back in Feb, his changes have all happened since our move to the country, mom took a new job with even weirder hours, and we've had a couple of male fosters in a row. And he has minimal crepitus in his hips - which all points to this being psychological. The vet recommended a behaviourist if things don't get better, but man, Nik put on one hell of a show prancing about and lapping up the attention. He certainly didn't look like nursing home candidate... try Sean Connery instead!

 

I treated him to a trip to Petsmart, where he managed to pick out his favorite liver treats. And I promise to pay more attention to my old grumpy guy. And cut down on the fostering, unless they are segregated from the pack (like Mommy and her puppies are).

 

And you all were right. I just needed to hear it a few (more) times.

(Going to snuggle her grumpy boy)

 

Danielle