Caerus Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 My question is actually for those of you who have dealt with a mouthy older dog. We have a wonderful 4 year old foster right now whose only problem is that occasionally he will mouth peoples' hands or legs. Hubby and I have been very careful to not reinforce this, and have been trying a few different ways to stop it (removing attention, 'yelping', redirecting, combination of these, etc.). Aidan has definitely gotten better since coming to us, but his heartworm treatment ends soon and then he gets to start looking for a home. My question really is whether I can expect his mouthing to ever stop? He only does it occasionally, and he doesn't bite down or anything, just puts his mouth on your hand. I get the feeling that his last owners let him get away with it, which I don't understand. Like I said, he has gotten better, but he definitely still does it after about 2 1/2 months. I'm nervous about placing him with people with kids because of this. If this is going to be a long-term or permanent thing we'll try to find him a forever home with no kids (or older kids). I know that few conclusions can be drawn specifically for him over the internet, but I'm sure someone has dealt with something similar and could share? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Back in the mid 80's my parents took in a rescue shepherd mix whose idea of play was to mouth arms and legs all the time. When I took him to his first appointment with our vet, he was appalled to see both my arms covered in bruises from all the play. He told me to press down on the dog's tongue with a finger, not against his teeth, just pressing the tongue. I did that exactly twice and the dog never mouthed like that again. He was able to inhibit his bite when I roughhoused with him. Of course, I tried that tongue depressing technique with couple of puppies later in life and it had no effect (yelping, removing hand, then letting pup play with hand again worked tended to work best). Quinn had a mercifully brief period as a puppy of nipping people on the calf as he went running by. He stopped after 4, maybe 5 times of me yelling in pain (no acting -- he also left bruises), grabbing him and telling him I didn't like that behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Two suggestions: i. Put hot sauce on your hand and let him mouth you. Unless he has a fiery palate, he probably won't do it again. ii. Same as Shetlander, but firmly grabing his tongue and holding until he tries to get it back. Of course this might backfire and he may not let you look at his mouth for teeth cleaning or vet visits. I tried the hot sauce on Skye's leash when she started grabbing it as a puppy and it worked like a charm. Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 No real suggestions here, just my experience: When I first brought my dog home, he would also mouth my hand. Mostly in the a.m., when he was happy to be awake with me again, he would just gently wrap my hand in his mouth. I don't know if I did the "Aaah" sound, but he gradually shifted from mouthing me to just putting his mouth around my hand as he yawned. So sweet and cute, actually! This lasted for a little while, and then he completely lost the mouthiness. I really didn't work much with him on this - the behavior just gradually faded away. In fact, now that you remind me of it, I'm a bit nostalgic for the hand-yawning. ::Sigh:: What do y'all think of the gentle hand-mouthing? Honestly, my dog's got the softest mouth of any dog we play with. People are always commenting on it. Even when he was wounded and I accidentally jabbed him, he just touched me ve-ry gently with his teeth. But in those early days, he just liked to wrap his mouth around me at first. Is it a sign of affection... or a little hug? Playfulness? Mary Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 What triggers the behavior? I had an animal (not a dog) that did this when she was worried. It felt like she was holding onto me as a kind of security blanket. That's probably not what your foster is doing, but I would want to know what triggers the behavior as a first step to determing how/whether it can be eliminated. If it's only occasional, and you can identify the trigger, maybe you can teach him an alternate behavior as an outlet for whatever is making him want to mouth your hand. If you only work on suppressing the mouthing, it may just pop out as something else equally undesirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 What do y'all think of the gentle hand-mouthing? Honestly, my dog's got the softest mouth of any dog we play with. People are always commenting on it. Even when he was wounded and I accidentally jabbed him, he just touched me ve-ry gently with his teeth. But in those early days, he just liked to wrap his mouth around me at first. Is it a sign of affection... or a little hug? Playfulness? I don't mind gentle hand mouthing at all. I see it as playfulness or affection, but others might see it differently, I'm sure. I feel bad that I wasn't able to teach Quinn to control his bite better and he isn't one who can mouth gently. On the other hand, I take great pride in my Lhasa's inhibited bite. He will still play gently with my hands from time to time. Best of all, even when he is becoming upset I know he has good control over how hard he will nip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think the hardest thing about getting rid of the behavior is that he does it so rarely. Maybe 3-4 times a week. Sometimes more, I think the most was once a day for a little while. At first I thought the trigger was his getting excited while playing (either with me or our dog), but I've noticed that he'll also do it when he is calm. The only thing I've gathered is that he doesn't do it to strangers or people that make him nervous, like my husband. Possibly trying to get attention? We don't give it to him, but a habit is a hard thing to break. Honestly, I don't really care that he is a tiny bit mouthy. It doesn't hurt, and doesn't bother me. I'm just worried that it might make him tougher to place, and I would be nervous placing him with young kids who might freak out when "doggy bites!". Sounds like it may go away eventually, but not before he leaves here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Double post, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I tried the hot sauce on Skye's leash when she started grabbing it as a puppy and it worked like a charm. Mmm, I tried something like that (extra hot ground red chilli mixed with oil) for Senneca. Seems her mouth is lined with asbestos. She actually likes extremely spicy food. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Mmm, I tried something like that (extra hot ground red chilli mixed with oil) for Senneca. Seems her mouth is lined with asbestos. She actually likes extremely spicy food. Sigh. LOL! Yeah, we tried that with Scooter too when he was a puppy and was eating his poop. Poured a whole bottle of Tabasco sauce on one of his little presents, he sniffed, and ate it anyway. No ill effects!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SincereArtisan Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 One thing that has worked well for my puppies in the past is to disengage their teeth by folding your other hand over their muzzle, curling your fingers so that their upper lip is folded under their teeth, and this way when they bite down they are biting *themselves*...this worked for those puppies that yiping/ignoring wouldn't, and it taught them great bite inhibition. Of course, I practice them allowing me to play with their muzzle, look at their teeth on a regular basis so they are not shy about having their nose touched... I too do not mind the gentle play biting with my dogs. I rough-house with them, they're very gentle--as they must be when play-biting with each other. If they get too excited, or mistakenly get me when going for a toy (a very rare occasion) I let out a big "EY!!!" and the toy goes up...the fun stops, and they are ignored for the next 5-10 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Ok, two things about this thread that I could be approaching wrongly as I've never had/trained my own dog before. 1 - I also don't mind gentle mouthing - of ME only. I correct him any time the teeth have pressure or if they touch someone else's skin (no teeth! is a command he's learned by now as he goes to work and gets totally mauled by about 20 people a couple times a week and it tends to excite him!) But I still let him mouth me at home because he seems to experience so much of the world through his teeth - I want him to be able to hold my hand with them if he wants. Originally, I think at the age the OP might be posting about (4 months?) I used yipping and/or ignoring to get him gentle as he was a pretty sharp nipper. Teeth hurt me, I immediately walk away and act like I can't even see him, like he doesn't exist, for a 30 sec to a minute or so. 2 - I don't mind when he holds his leash! Help me people - I know I've got to be wrong here. But he doesn't chew it, he holds it and it is so cute and he looks so proud... I swear he prances, as he walks while holding his leash, especially if it's got just the right amount of slack between his mouth and collar. We sit at intersections and he looks up at me, holding his leash with the sweetest, expectant look, waiting for the release to cross. Now with his sad limp (going to the vet next week again for that), the prancing makes *me* feel better. What am I inviting by allowing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caerus Posted November 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 He is actually 4 years old. I think it'd be easier if he was a puppy, but it seems to be something he has done since he was that age. At least he has good bite inhibition. My boy used to hold his own leash too, but he grew out of it. It was awfully cute though. Even now he will occasionally hold another dog's leash, but not his own anymore. The only problem I've personally had with that was when our last foster did it, and discovered that leashes are tasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 2 - I don't mind when he holds his leash! Help me people - I know I've got to be wrong here. But he doesn't chew it, he holds it and it is so cute and he looks so proud... I swear he prances, as he walks while holding his leash, especially if it's got just the right amount of slack between his mouth and collar. We sit at intersections and he looks up at me, holding his leash with the sweetest, expectant look, waiting for the release to cross. Now with his sad limp (going to the vet next week again for that), the prancing makes *me* feel better. What am I inviting by allowing this? I've seen a few dogs do that, all Goldens as a matter of fact. This type of leash holding (as opposed to tugging or playing with the leash) sometimes struck me as a bit of insecurity but that may well have been anthropomorphizing on my part (thinking of a little kid hanging onto an adult's hand or pant leg). It might simply be a way that the dog feels more "connected" to the owner. The same way they like to lie at our feet, next to us on the couch or in our laps. As far as possible fall out -- if you were doing competitive obedience, you'd want to dog to understand not to hold the leash when doing formal heeling. And in general, it's good to have a command to get the dog to stop the behavior, in this case let go of the leash. If I was going to train it, I'd do so in a happy way -- making it a game, especially since it sounds like both you and the dog enjoy the behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Thanks for the reply! He sometimes tugs too, but not when he's holding his leash. He tugs from the neck, as it were, at the beginning of or duing short walks, and sometimes when there are enticing distractions. I know this is something that needs continuing work. I have tried a GL for this and it works ok but he seems to really hate it; I am thinking of trying a sensation harness next. It's good to know there are other dogs like him, leash-holders. The head-held high prancing is so funny, though - strangers laugh at us/with us when they see him do it too. I swear Odin is the fanciest lad on these boards. And as you point out he is exactly the type to be "tugging on my pant legs" in a figurative sense (not literally tho - that's a big no-no). And sorry I didn't remember the original dog's age correctly, Caerus! I should have checked the OP. As you can tell I am quite new to dogs and so obviously have no ideas for you. Good luck - ingrained habits are tough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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