Say Cheese???

[kibbles]

Sorry to post yet another topic, but here it goes. Ok so I started clicker training yesterday after doing much research and watching videos, I was kinda skeptical, but did the click treat click treat so that way he would know everytime he heard the click its a good thing. SOOOO, my neighbors dog comes over, and shes looking like she wanted a treat, and she watched my pepper. so if pepper got rambunctious(sp) in his playing I simply said down he went down sometimes not right away but he did click treat and so on. My neighbors dog wanted a treat to, and her owner said lets see if she gets the click treat thing---her dog has never really been trained, so I told her what to do, I went to put pepper inside as I didnt want him getting confused, sooo, to make a long story short, her dog learned down, sit and rollover VERY quickly. the owner was amazed:) I have to say I was quite impressed to:) clicker training really does work

 

When i introduced cheese last night though he was at 100% with commands....

 

To make a loooong story short, I had pepper out later that night and he was doing good except with those darn rocks again i said drop it and he looked at me and the clicker and he didnt drop it, so i had to open his mouth to get it out as its dangerous for him. ARGH i thought i cant ignore that behaviour, I was at my wits end..... sooo, I did a quick search on google and it said cheese works wonders on dogs. hmmmm... so I went to test that theory, well, IT worked!!! I said drop it, he did click treat happy at last outside. He was more than willing to do whatever i asked for this cheese?? so I did work with him some, and his recall was 100% even with my kids outside. neighbors going by, what have you, he was totally focused on me(well probably the cheese). his focus outside was not up to par prior to this to what it was inside as there are rocks to pick up, people to watch etc. so anyways, he was such a joy for me outside as the rock thing was taken care of. Then he decided he would go pick up a rock, look at me to say drop it so he could get some cheese---yes he was manipulating me, and yes i let him so he knows its a good thing to drop it:)

 

Ok so hes got that stuff down, but I dont want to keep using cheese to treat, as when I came in last night and looked into it further it said cheese isnt good like that---argh!! thing is this morning after cheese last night his bathroom was actually more solid and healthier looking. sooo, my question is, can I or cant I use cheese to treat him?? I have read differing views. Also, what treats should I be using?? or should I just go buy a bunch of different ones and see what works best?? Also do they have gluten free dog treats??

 

 

sorry so many questions, I am new to training and also new to bc. Thank-you for all the input:)

[Root Beer]

I've heard different things about cheese (dairy, anyway), but I do use it with Speedy and Maddie for their classes. Maddie will do just about anything for cheese and it's just handy for Speedy. Both digest it fine and neither have ever had a problem with it. It is certainly their reward of choice.

 

Dean cannot have cheese. He can't digest it. Every now and then as a very special treat, he gets one little tiny bite and he's OK with that, but I can't give him more than a taste.

 

So, I think it depends on the dog. If he digests it fine, then I don't see a problem with it. I don't think I'd use cheese as a training treat every day, but once or twice a week, sure.

 

When you work with clicker and the dog starts to do things for clicks, it's not manipulation. He is, after all, working for the click/treat and it is you, not him, who decides what will be clicked. It's part of the game for him to try different things to figure out what you want him to do.

 

If you teach him to pick the rock up on cue and drop it on cue, eventually you can fade out the click and you'll have a really nice piece of a retrieve behavior trained. You can start to have him pick up things that are more appropriate like toys or anything you might like him to carry. Some dogs really enjoy carrying things around.

 

For treats, I use: grain free kibble (they love it), cheese, cooked chicken, left over meat of any kind, or home made liver treats. I'm not big on store bought treats, but I use them occasionally.

[BustopherJones]

Sorry to post yet another topic

That's what we're here for...

 

When Annie went through Puppy Kindergarten (that was before Family Dog Training, Good Citizen Training, Remedial Puppy Kindergarten, Reform School, etc.), the trainers specifically recommended small bits of all-natural bologna or small chunks of Italian-style meatballs as training treats. My vet also suggested that the Mother Hubbard Training Bitz were also a good choice. Annie loved the meatballs (I just had to carry lots of hand wipes because of the garlic smell) and the bologna. Today, we use the Bitz (which she also loves) because they are far more convenient to carry around and do not spoil; they also do not create a problem with Annie's extremely delicate digestive system.

[JohnLloydJones]

Senneca loves cheese, but I never give her more than small quantities at a time. Apart from the digestion issue, there's a lot of fat in cheese and I don't want to overdo it.

 

Also do they have gluten free dog treats??

 

There are plenty of non-grain treats out there, but I have never seen a (grain-based) treat that specifically claims to be gluten free. I'm not sure that it is always the gluten, per se, that causes the allergy. Senneca gets the itchy paws problem with commercial wheat products, but does just fine with her home-baked sour rye treats. Each dog is different.

[afrancis]

...small bits of all-natural bologna or small chunks of Italian-style meatballs as training treats.

 

Bustopher, that reminds me of a lady at one of our doggie free-run parks who would bring pockets full of kiolbasa sausage for her dog (yes, she and it were both obese -- although I know you and yours aren't ). Of course, ALL the dogs within a 100 yard radius would run to her for treats -- I had to ask her please not to feed them to Skye since she already got everything else from DH at home!

I used liver treats for Skye too when she was young but they were too rich and I ended up switching to things like Charlie Bears and pockets full of her regular kibble. I've also heard that people use Cheerios. Stink-free.

We only use cheese is emergencies (or birthdays) like pill-taking. I've also heard its too rich for dogs on a regular basis, but as Kristine says, moderation is fine if their system can tolerate it. I buy mostly lower fat cheese ('cos I like it too!) so its better for Skye as well.

 

Then he decided he would go pick up a rock, look at me to say drop it so he could get some cheese---yes he was manipulating me, and yes i let him so he knows its a good thing to drop it

Yes -- he is a border collie

 

 

Ailsa

[stockdogranch]

Ever hear the expression, "That makes the cheese a little more binding"? Couldn't resist,

 

A

[Guest SweetJordan]

I have yet to meet a dog who doesn't love cheese. With that being said I think it's fine to use in small quantities. Just don't ever use the hard cheeses. If he likes cheese that much I would use it as his gold treat. Since you don't want to be using too much anyway save it for times when you really need to get his attention or he really deserves a big reward. Other treat ideas jerkey, chicken, steak. I've even used Kosher hotdogs. Those were a big hit in agility class. There was a dog in a beginner class that was really afraid of the dog walk. The dog's owner asked if she could borrow some of my hot dog and it worked. She then asked what kind they were(Hebrew Nationals). When training is involved I've never stuck to just one treat I mix it up. Oh my dogs love bananas. I taught Riley shake by using banana.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I think you're having the best luck with the cheese because right now it's a high value treat, and people tend to get better results when teaching new things with extremely high value treats. Again, it depends on the dog when it comes to cheese. It is high fat, so I'd watch the amount you use. Daisy only get's cheese once in a while because too much cheese leads to tummy troubles. She would sell her own soul for it though! What we usually use is cut up bits (the size of my pinky finger nail) of Natural Balance food roll and then I cut back on her daily kibble intake accrodingly.

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/DFRolls.html

Other things that I have had to try in situations where she'd normally shut down (she is shy/reactive) are lightly browned, cut up, chuck roast, hot dog bits, boiled chicken and zukes mini naturals. The steak and hotdogs were big winners but since they are really high value to her I only break them out when she is REALLY stressed or unsure about something. Needless to say when we go to training classes I have on hand about 3 or 4 different types of treats, just incase! She will also do anything for my mom if she has cheerios!

[urge to herd]

Use grated cheese, one sliver makes a fine treat. I spread grated cheese on a cookie sheet or pie pan, stick it in the freezer for a week or so, stir it every day. It dehydrates the cheese bits, so they don't gum up in your pocket and leave grease on your best jeans. Yes, it's the voice of experience.

 

The dogs love it dried out or not, and the sliver at a time means you get a lot of treats.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[Tiga's_mom]

Tiga is VERY food motivated. And by VERY I mean only. lol. I use cheese sometimes, which he loves, but to him, it's not as high value as some other things. I have used hot dogs cut up into very small pieces, but there's corn starch (or corn syrup, I forget which) in them and since he's allergic to corn, I don't like to take chances. He has a lot of allergies and a sensitive tummy. What we finally discovered that works wonders is liver. I bake it in the oven and cut it up into small pieces and then put a handful per baggy and freeze them. He loves them, frozen or not and it super cheap. A pack of liver is less then $1.50 which will last for at least a week, maybe 2. Funny thing is, the first time I tried to give him liver he turned his nose up at it. Didn't want anything to do with it. Very surprising for a dog that will eat anything that's even remotely edible. Then one thanksgiving he saw his best friend was eating it and didn't want to miss out on anything. Ever since then, he can't get enough of it. LOL!

 

We also sometimes use carrots cut up into small pieces. He also loves brocolli and lettuce. But the highest value of everything to him is the liver. That's what I use outside when working on his recall. In the house we'll usually use carrots and sometimes kibble.

[kibbles]

Wow, I had no idea they could eat alot of what you guys posted:) I do prefer to use "human" food for treats as I can see how much more motivated he is with it. I will def. try out the banannas, bologna, carrots, hotdogs(yes i buy hebrew natl too) one at a time at first to make sure hes not allergic, I doubt it, but will work with food the same way I did my kids as babies so its easier to pinpoint if there is a problem.

 

Thank-you for all the input, I think after I trial to see what he likes I will just make baggies of treats on my own with a mix in it so he will never know what will come---maybe make it funner for him??

 

Had him out a while ago and he is constantly watching me--weird for him--even while he explores he "checks" in to make sure hes doing good. then he picked up a plastic cup I said drop it, he dropped it, pretty soon he was picking it up dropping in and coming for a treat even without me saying drop it thought it was cute, hopefully I am doing the right thing.

 

Oh, one more question that may be the stupidest you guys have ever heard, but um, I read raw food, do you guys mean you feed the dog raw meat So I have refrained from any meat as I wasnt sure on that one I thought well raw food certainly can not be good as they can get worms. So thought I would ask before I do anything foolish.

 

Thank-you guys again. Pepper is really sprouting and really really happy. And Yes very food motivated to I have found. Weird that he likes to be petted when he eats though, and he likes to "work" for his food. like today he didnt want to eat, so I had him sit gave him a handful. Up then gave him a handful. I guess these dogs certainly like to work. I am trying to give him free food, and he is loving the working part?? feels weird to do that for his meals... but i didnt use the clicker when he felt he was working for his food. I really want him to just eat on his own without working for it. I may just try the food in his crate to see if that works for his next meal.

[afrancis]

Weird that he likes to be petted when he eats though, and he likes to "work" for his food. like today he didnt want to eat, so I had him sit gave him a handful. Up then gave him a handful. I guess these dogs certainly like to work. I am trying to give him free food, and he is loving the working part?? feels weird to do that for his meals... but i didnt use the clicker when he felt he was working for his food. I really want him to just eat on his own without working for it. I may just try the food in his crate to see if that works for his next meal.

 

Skye doesn't mind being touched while she's eating. I've always thought this is a really good thing to reinforce so there is no food guarding going on.

 

I have, since day one, asked her to wait until I give her the ok to eat, but she has interpreted that as meaning she needs to have the ok several times, as if she's asking, "Are you SURE its ok?"

 

I wonder if in your case he's quite excited by the prospect of both the yummy liver AND the positive reinforcement you (and the clicker) give with it. So instead of eating the boring dog food, he'd rather do something special for the treats. Also could be with the free food that it's always there and not particularly enticing nor is there the association with YOU ... I don't know how many others free feed, but I've never done this. Skye loves the routine when I serve her breakfast and when DH prepares her dinner . It seems like a bit of a ceremony for her and has always been a chance for us to reinforce WE are where her food comes from and she must ask permission first before eating it.

Ailsa

[Tiga's_mom]

Raw meat is ok for dogs. Their systems work a lot differently then humans. There are lots of folks on here that feed raw. Tiga gets some raw foods. He'll get raw meaty bones sometimes as treats. He'll also occasionaly get a little raw chicken or beef and he gets a raw egg about once a week. We did free feed when he was a puppy but not for long. He gained a lot of weight so we didn't do that for long. He is also not allowed to eat until he gets the ok. He has to sit or lay down while making eye contact with me and will not touch the food until I say ok. When he stays with someone or at the kennel I have to make sure to tell them this because he won't touch it until he's allowed. lol.

[kibbles]

Afrancis, oh, what I meant by free food was we do have a schedule ie routine, where I get him out of the crate, take him out to potty come in and eat, only problem is he wont eat unless he "works" for it and wont take it for free--if that makes sense. He wont just eat, I have to make him do something for each handful??? I would really like for him to just eat his food when fed, I say eat, and he wont. He really likes to have interaction even when eating. he thrives on learning, to eat I have to say up, feed, down, feed, roll over feed. I dont know why he just likes to do this for his food. Nothing I would ever do or dream of, feeding is meant to be free not worked for, but for him even with the schedule he likes to learn learn learn.

 

Tigas mom, thank-you for the clarification. I was thinking maybe raw food was like saying human food or healthy food. I was unsure, but I guess when people say they feed their dogs raw, it really is raw meat.

 

Ok one last story, pepper found a muffin tonight, which was obviously much better than anything i had on hand, i said drop it, no drop, drop it, no drop, he ran, i went over to him and it was gone, he knew he did something wrong, and he held his head down, i said come on he finally came i clicked and treated for the come part. we made it back almost to the door, and another muffin piece(where it came from I have no idea???) i said drop it no go, so i decided to ignore him this time went and sat down on the porch, as the piece was so small, he knew i was upset so he ran and jumped up with his two front paws on the sk8board and started pushing it like i have been working on him with earlier today so i click treat and things were back to normal. He certainly knows his way around me lol

 

I ordered a book today about how to train dogs, so hopefully I wont have too many questions after it arrives, or I may have more

 

This board is great. Now I know I can cut some raw meat before I marinate just for pepper:)

[sluj]

Had him out a while ago and he is constantly watching me--weird for him--even while he explores he "checks" in to make sure hes doing good. then he picked up a plastic cup I said drop it, he dropped it, pretty soon he was picking it up dropping in and coming for a treat even without me saying drop it thought it was cute, hopefully I am doing the right thing.

 

I had to laugh at this, and again at your muffin story. I employed the "call over and exchange for a treat" method to avoid having Allie running off with stuff, and/or ingesting harmful items. Now she's constantly rooting around to find a novelty (or a sock, if she can't find one) to bring me. I've looked up from the computer at times to find enough dirty laundry at my feet to fill the washer. She is good with drop-it and leave-it though. (The method the rescue trainer recommended for leave-it was to have two treats, one hidden, one in sight. She'd sniff at the open treat, you'd say "leave it" and blow on her nose if she didn't turn away from it. Then say "ok!" give the other, hidden treat. )

[Ninso]

He wont just eat, I have to make him do something for each handful??? I would really like for him to just eat his food when fed, I say eat, and he wont. He really likes to have interaction even when eating. he thrives on learning, to eat I have to say up, feed, down, feed, roll over feed. I dont know why he just likes to do this for his food. Nothing I would ever do or dream of, feeding is meant to be free not worked for, but for him even with the schedule he likes to learn learn learn.

 

It's possible he's just not hungry. Sounds like he's getting quite a few treats throughout the day.

 

Also, some dogs prefer to be hand-fed for whatever reason and will manipulate their owners into doing so, refusing to eat unless they are hand fed. It sounds like you have quite the manipulative little guy, so you might consider this possibility.

 

Either way, it's a good idea to make sure he will eat on his own when he needs to, for example, if you're in a hurry and don't have time to wait on him or make him do tricks. I would first make sure that he's not being over-fed with treats and his daily food ration. If you're feeding lots of treats throughout the day, make sure to cut back on his kibble proportionately so he will be hungry for his meals. Put down his food bowl for 15 minutes or so, and he if he doesn't eat, take it away and he doesn't get any more food until the next meal time. He will soon learn that he had better eat when food is available. You may want to feed him in his crate so he can concentrate on eating without a lot of distractions.

[Traneman]

My 2 love "Cheez its" they are very handy and cheap. The salt content has me concerned somewhat so I dont give them alot. Would anyone else worry about cheez its.

[Root Beer]

. . . only problem is he wont eat unless he "works" for it and wont take it for free--if that makes sense. He wont just eat, I have to make him do something for each handful??? I would really like for him to just eat his food when fed, I say eat, and he wont. He really likes to have interaction even when eating. he thrives on learning, to eat I have to say up, feed, down, feed, roll over feed. I dont know why he just likes to do this for his food. Nothing I would ever do or dream of, feeding is meant to be free not worked for, but for him even with the schedule he likes to learn learn learn.

 

I would suggest trying different food.

 

Back when I fed Speedy kibble, he wanted to work for his meals. I often put them in a ball that had a hole so he could push the ball along and eat the food as it dropped out.

 

I didn't mind doing that for him. He was too thin at the time for me to make him go hungry so he would eat faster.

 

When I started raw feeding him, that habit disappeared completely. Now he eats whatever I give him and he wastes no time.

 

I'm not saying that you have to switch to raw, but that it might be worth trying some different foods to see if he likes one more than another.