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I haven't had as much time to work with my border collie Gretchen lately because my son(who is a year old) was sick last week and now is cutting teeth, so he has been very cranky and not allowing me to take much time working with Gretchen, anyway, lately she has been scratching like crazy, i checked her for fleas and she doesn't have any,and i also gave her an oatmeal bath the soothe her skin(i'm a groomer) and that didn't help at all, if anything she seemed to have gotten worse, so now the only think i can think of is that it is from boredom, she has been on the same food since we have had her(canidae, and same bag even, i have only had her since june and we got a large 40lb bag,and she's not a big eater) Anyway, we have a treat ball, which she figured out how to work that in a few seconds, so i'm looking for something i can make that she really has to work to do or something, just something to get her mind working, any advice, opinions or experience with similar problems you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Rachel and Gretchen(the border collie)

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I'm right now experimenting with tapering off Canidae and onto something else, because my dog's been itching, too. Pretty much all summer. It could be just about anything - he eats grass sometimes, and it's been really humid so he's damp a lot of the time. I also started giving him fish oil tablets just to see if that helped. I'm crossing my fingers!

 

When it's rainy and we can't go out exploring, I play hide and seek with my dog. I take a toy, have him do a "stay" and then hide the toy in another room. He LOVES this game - more than any other game. He would play for hours. I think it keeps his mind occupied pretty well. I guess it would be hard to play with a baby in your arms, though.

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

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I think the itchies are from allgeries.

Mine are all driving me crazy with itchies right now.

The ones that swim on a reg. basis are less itchy. I think it's cause they wash off the offending pollen or grass.

 

It's been one heck of a wet year with things growing that haven't grown here before. It's finally starting to cool off and I got a ton of grass cut last weekend, the itchies have lessened to the point I'm not going ot take Raven (one of the oldies) to the vet for a cort. shot. She's already been on pred. recently and it helped till I started tapering her off. Then they were back with a vengance. Benadryl isn't even touching this.

I use a speical shampoo from Wallyworld called Nazarol, it's a human dandruff shampoo. I put a tad in a squirt bottle mix it with water, spray it on them and let them set with it on for a bit. That helped but I don't think it's good to always be giving a bath. Washes off all the good oils along with the bad. I try to get them to swim more but Raven will only wade in to her belly. Jazz will swim but she's not that itchy.

I guess one of the good things that have come of this is they've mostly blown their coats early so hair is less than other years right now.

 

If the food was doing fine before, I don't think it's the food. I also don't think it's from bordom either.

When it's rainy I play clean up the mud and wipe down the dogs. Not any of our favorites but what cha gonna do?? :rolleyes: Sure keep me busy!

 

Kristen

ETA I was remembering what I did when I had crabby babies. Car rides were always a hit here! Maybe a fieldtrip to the park for a walk? At least the car ride might give you some peace. The dog will probably love it too!

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I think the itchies are from allgeries.

Mine are all driving me crazy with itchies right now.

The ones that swim on a reg. basis are less itchy. I think it's cause they wash off the offending pollen or grass.

 

Mine are all affected by allergies right now, too. I didn't realize it before, but ever since Dean started playing in the sprinkler daily, he has been affected much less. He goes to town with the sprinkler and ends up drenched. I guess the pollen and silage dust (which is what I think all of mine are allergic to) gets rinsed off of him.

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I'm thinking now that it may be allergies, i was looking at her belly and it's pretty red, but it could be from her scratching, so i guess i will know for sure if it gets better once it starts getting colder, I'm wanting to switch her food anyway, canidae wasn't my food of choice, but my mom owns a boarding kennel and she got like 4 bags of it for free because the outer packaging was ripped so she gave me a bag, I am probably going to switch to flint river because my trainer recommends it and it seems like a good food, plus i'm thinking about becoming a distributor of it...

 

Oh and while i'm thinking about it, i have a question, someone mentioned taking car rides to entertain both baby and BC, but that is out of the question because taking car rides with Gretchen is a huge pain in the butt, every time a car passes she lunges and barks at it, it's so annoying, i have a subaru wagon so it makes it a little easier because i can keep her contained back there(i used to have an s-10 crew cab and that was a nightmare with baby and dog)...sorry if i don't make sense ,but it's late and i'm tired, so i ramble, But does anyone have any advice for keeping her from trying to attack every car that drives past?

Thanks

Rachel

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Some dogs just seem to get really overstimulated with cars whizzing by. The ones I've known (only a couple) didn't seem to ever grow out of it, or finally put that kind of movement into perspective and settle down. And, boy, they sure can drive ya crazy!!! They seem to do best if they just can't see everything going by. Cover the crate. With this type of dog, I've never seen anything else that really works, unfortunately,

 

A

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I had one foster that was fine for the almost 6.5 hour drive home. Then all of a sudden she decided the movement was to much. Scarred me half to death. THere I was driving and all of a sudden from a quiet back seat Cujo attacked the back window.

I screamed freaking out and that seemed to stop her dead in her tracks. After that all I had to do was a little AHHH and she would quit. She didn't stop wanting to do it but I think I freaked her out as much as she freaked me out. THis was a dog that never rode in a car before she came to me. I have a feeling it's something that works out ok if started really young.

 

Mine go everywhere at such a young age that I think they just get used to it. IF I remember right your pup is only 5 months old. I might keep trying for just short drives without the baby so you can work on her without upsetting the baby. She's young...you might have a chance.

 

All my kids were comforted by the car, to bad you can't get the same deal. I remember all those late nights with a crabby baby and going for a drive, then trying to get the sleeping kid in the house without waking it up was the hard part.

 

Good luck

K~

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Some dogs just seem to get really overstimulated with cars whizzing by. The ones I've known (only a couple) didn't seem to ever grow out of it, or finally put that kind of movement into perspective and settle down. And, boy, they sure can drive ya crazy!!! They seem to do best if they just can't see everything going by. Cover the crate. With this type of dog, I've never seen anything else that really works, unfortunately,

 

A

 

I'm not sure if it would work with every dog, but doing LAT with Dean in Agility class, where he used to become overstimulated by the motion of the running dogs just as he became overstimulated by cars passing by on the road, caused him to lose interest in the cars going by as we drive along. He very rarely even pays any mind to the cars going by now and when he does it's very brief interest. The nice thing is that I don't have to cover him now or manage him at all - he really learned the idea of watching objects in motion calmly.

 

LAT could also be done in the car, but during the training process a second person would have to be in the back to mark and reward while the other person drove. However, if one were to start in a parked car with cars moving by as the car that dog and handler are in were stationary, that would work. That's where I would start in any case.

 

I don't see why it couldn't work for most dogs who are overstimulated by cars going by, although it is a step by step process and the handler would need to carry it through to completion to get the results.

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About the itching. This is a high allergy time for external allergies. Also, there have been many reports that the new formula Canidae has been causing lots of trouble for dogs. I had a discussion at the pet food store owner, and he has recently had 18 customers complain about canidae problems, and they changed foods.

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Mine go everywhere at such a young age that I think they just get used to it. IF I remember right your pup is only 5 months old. I might keep trying for just short drives without the baby so you can work on her without upsetting the baby. She's young...you might have a chance.

 

Gretchen is about 2 years old, but i have only had her since june, she is a rescue, she came into a high kill shelter as a stray down in Kentucky, and a lady from a local rescue up here(in PA) found her and brought her up here to be fostered and then adopted, so i know nothing about her history, previous owners,past training or anything, i wish i had had her since she was a pup, but i'm just glad that i have her now, she is a truly amazing dog, i can't wait until i get her basic training down pat because then we are going to take (another) agility class(the first one was mostly basic training because i had only had her 2 weeks, so she didn't really retain anything), I also want to get her herding instincts tested and possibly get her into a class for that.

 

 

Oh and someone mentioned Lat? i tried searching and browsing, but what is that? sorry i'm new here and to the border collie world, from what you said it sounds like just using treats as a distraction until she doesn't even pay any attention to the passing cars, am i on the right page here? or am i floating off in another universe lol

 

oh and here is a pic of Gretchen :-)

post-9202-1221748199_thumb.jpg

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I'm not sure if it would work with every dog, but doing LAT with Dean in Agility class, where he used to become overstimulated by the motion of the running dogs just as he became overstimulated by cars passing by on the road, caused him to lose interest in the cars going by as we drive along.

 

I assume you are referring to desensitizing exercises, but what does LAT stand for?

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LAT stands for "Look at That" and it is a game from the Control Unleashed book/program which is by Leslie McDevitt. She created this game.

 

Using a clicker, you teach the dog in a situation with very low stimulation, to look away from you at something else and you click (yes - as the dog is looking away!!) and reward the dog when he or she looks back to you after the click. When the dog gets good at the game, you slowly move it into situations where there is more stimulation.

 

What this does over the long haul is to teach the dog that looking at things that are stimulating is no big deal. It gives the dog the ability to mentally take in something that used to cause an excited (or fearful or stressed, etc) response and take it in stride.

 

To give an example, to start this with Dean, I moved him back into an Intro to Agility class where the dogs in class would be doing very little moving around. Any time someone got up for their turn, I watched Dean. When he turned to look at the team moving onto the floor, I clicked and gave him his treat when he turned his head back to me after the click. We did this over and over until he expected it.

 

By the time the dogs were running short sequences, the game was "ingrained" enough that he could tear his attention away from the briefly running dogs whenever he heard the click.

 

These days I rarely need the clicker. He lays at my feet and enjoys watching the other dogs run. He does not fixate and he is at the ready to do whatever I ask of him at any time. The LAT game taught him how to do that.

 

It is part desensitization/coutner conditioning, but it is also a means of giving the dog a familiar framework.

 

Last night I took Maddie into a room full of dogs she didn't know. She got really excited when we walked in there and a few of them started to bark at her because they didn't know her. Her natural response to this would be to bark right back at them. I anticipated this and immediately when we walked in, I started to play Look at That with her. Within minutes, she was sitting quietly at the ready to do what we were there to do. The other dogs, who were being told "NO! NO!" and being jerked by their collars were still yowling away.

 

It's a surprisingly powerful conditioning game. I've really never encountered anything like it.

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LAT stands for "Look at That" and it is a game from the Control Unleashed book/program which is by Leslie McDevitt. She created this game.

 

Using a clicker, you teach the dog in a situation with very low stimulation, to look away from you at something else and you click (yes - as the dog is looking away!!) and reward the dog when he or she looks back to you after the click. When the dog gets good at the game, you slowly move it into situations where there is more stimulation.

 

What this does over the long haul is to teach the dog that looking at things that are stimulating is no big deal. It gives the dog the ability to mentally take in something that used to cause an excited (or fearful or stressed, etc) response and take it in stride.

 

To give an example, to start this with Dean, I moved him back into an Intro to Agility class where the dogs in class would be doing very little moving around. Any time someone got up for their turn, I watched Dean. When he turned to look at the team moving onto the floor, I clicked and gave him his treat when he turned his head back to me after the click. We did this over and over until he expected it.

 

By the time the dogs were running short sequences, the game was "ingrained" enough that he could tear his attention away from the briefly running dogs whenever he heard the click.

 

These days I rarely need the clicker. He lays at my feet and enjoys watching the other dogs run. He does not fixate and he is at the ready to do whatever I ask of him at any time. The LAT game taught him how to do that.

 

It is part desensitization/coutner conditioning, but it is also a means of giving the dog a familiar framework.

 

Last night I took Maddie into a room full of dogs she didn't know. She got really excited when we walked in there and a few of them started to bark at her because they didn't know her. Her natural response to this would be to bark right back at them. I anticipated this and immediately when we walked in, I started to play Look at That with her. Within minutes, she was sitting quietly at the ready to do what we were there to do. The other dogs, who were being told "NO! NO!" and being jerked by their collars were still yowling away.

 

It's a surprisingly powerful conditioning game. I've really never encountered anything like it.

 

Ok, so would a good place to start be parked along side a busy road, or is that to stimulating to start off? She is better when one of the cars is stopped, either us, say at a light, or the other car and we are driving by, she normally just follows the cars with her head in that situation, verses when we are both moving she lunges and barks, maybe a little later today we will all go for a ride and i can try teaching her this, we have been working a lot on focus in class, and lately she has been picking up on things super quick, so maybe she will get this down too :-) Thanks for the suggestion, it sounds like it will work

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Ok, so would a good place to start be parked along side a busy road, or is that to stimulating to start off? She is better when one of the cars is stopped, either us, say at a light, or the other car and we are driving by, she normally just follows the cars with her head in that situation, verses when we are both moving she lunges and barks, maybe a little later today we will all go for a ride and i can try teaching her this, we have been working a lot on focus in class, and lately she has been picking up on things super quick, so maybe she will get this down too :-) Thanks for the suggestion, it sounds like it will work

 

Based on what you say, it sounds like the parked car near the busy road sounds like it might be appropriate since she just follows the cars with her head in that situation.

 

Try this when you go:

 

Wait until she is watching a car - click

 

If she immediately turns her head to you, give a treat.

 

If she does not immediately turn her head to you, put a treat on her nose and lure her face around until she is looking at you and pop the treat in her mouth. Don't click again at this time.

 

Try again - wait until she is watching a car, click, if she turns toward you, treat, if not lure her around.

 

If she does not start turning back to you on her own upon hearing the click after 5 times, then it might be too stimulating and you might want to try a less busy place.

 

If she turns back to you right away or after just a couple of lures, you are working in a good place and I would stick with that for at least 5 or 6 training sessions.

 

Make sure to take good treats when you first start this - something that is of very high value to her.

 

Let me know how it goes and when she gets good at it, I'll give you the next step before starting it with a moving car!

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Based on what you say, it sounds like the parked car near the busy road sounds like it might be appropriate since she just follows the cars with her head in that situation.

 

Try this when you go:

 

Wait until she is watching a car - click

 

If she immediately turns her head to you, give a treat.

 

If she does not immediately turn her head to you, put a treat on her nose and lure her face around until she is looking at you and pop the treat in her mouth. Don't click again at this time.

 

Try again - wait until she is watching a car, click, if she turns toward you, treat, if not lure her around.

 

If she does not start turning back to you on her own upon hearing the click after 5 times, then it might be too stimulating and you might want to try a less busy place.

 

If she turns back to you right away or after just a couple of lures, you are working in a good place and I would stick with that for at least 5 or 6 training sessions.

 

Make sure to take good treats when you first start this - something that is of very high value to her.

 

Let me know how it goes and when she gets good at it, I'll give you the next step before starting it with a moving car!

 

I wanted to try this after work last night, that way it would just be me and her with no other distractions, but i forgot my treats at home, i bring her to work with me because she needs the socialization(i work in the salon at petsmart) SO i am hoping i can remember everything tonight and work with her on this

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I'm thinking now that it may be allergies, i was looking at her belly and it's pretty red, but it could be from her scratching, so i guess i will know for sure if it gets better once it starts getting colder, I'm wanting to switch her food anyway, canidae wasn't my food of choice, but my mom owns a boarding kennel and she got like 4 bags of it for free because the outer packaging was ripped so she gave me a bag, I am probably going to switch to flint river because my trainer recommends it and it seems like a good food, plus i'm thinking about becoming a distributor of it...

 

Oh and while i'm thinking about it, i have a question, someone mentioned taking car rides to entertain both baby and BC, but that is out of the question because taking car rides with Gretchen is a huge pain in the butt, every time a car passes she lunges and barks at it, it's so annoying, i have a subaru wagon so it makes it a little easier because i can keep her contained back there(i used to have an s-10 crew cab and that was a nightmare with baby and dog)...sorry if i don't make sense ,but it's late and i'm tired, so i ramble, But does anyone have any advice for keeping her from trying to attack every car that drives past?

Thanks

Rachel

 

My Baxter likes to herd cars which makes off leash near any roads impossible. We have come a long way with walking through the neighborhood on leash and downing when a car approaches. He use to spin and attempt to get to the car. He also would spin and bark in his crate while riding. (Riding without a crate is out of the question - he would lunge at the windows trying to get to the cars). I now drape a silver mesh sunshade over the back and sides of the crate. I leave the front so I can see him in my mirror. And when he would start to bark and spin at cars I showed him the water spray bottle and threatened to spray him. (It probably helps if your dog respects the spray bottle). Anyway, he rides quietly now and often sleeps in the crate on trips.

 

Good Luck. Mel.

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