Peejy Posted September 6, 2008 Report Posted September 6, 2008 I have a dog i am training, she is a great little worker and always tries her hardest but she hasn't the slightest amount of eye on sheep, it is really weird because when she plays with our other dogs all she does is 'Eye' them all the time. This girl is also a very busy worker and works like a "bull at a gate" all the time and I have to continually tell her to steady up. I have noticed that when the sheep begin to move too fast, instead of slowing down while she is behind them, she takes off in a wide circle around bothe me and the sheep and 'orbits' them as if to take the pressure off them.. Has anyone else ever had any experience with a dog lacking eye? Is there anything I could do with her to help develop some eye on stock? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Quote
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted September 6, 2008 Report Posted September 6, 2008 My Ben's got almost no eye. It's a bear of a training "challenge." It set back my own progress by many years since I had no help with Ben and he was my first dog. Ben, too, has "setting," "stalking" and creeping behavior in play situations but absolutely none while working. I found, too late for Ben but helpful with other dogs like him, that getting and keeping proper distance is vital. But, it's frustrating because dogs without eye are usually motivated on a "task" level - they dislike being told HOW to do a job and they especially hate being "taken out of the work" in an effort to show them a better way to do it. The speeding up, pushy work, and orbiting can all be related to wanting to control the sheep but not having the tools to do it properly when too close - working "inside the bubble." Also, training on light sheep is a nightmare for these dogs. It's good if you can find sheep that know THEIR job, and reward the dog for even sort of kind of doing it right. Take what I say with a grain of salt as I'm not an advanced handler. But, I do keep getting handed dogs like this and now that I have one dog that is "just right" for me, the next dog I get that needs a home, if they are like this, I'll keep. They are handy to throw in there when the going is tough, once they are trained. At nearly thirteen, Ben still is asked to come out when sheep need to be pushed into trailers, held hard, or large groups of ewes with lambs need working. They are great "and" dogs - "Go get Ben AND [fill in the blank]." Quote
Peejy Posted September 7, 2008 Author Report Posted September 7, 2008 Thanks for that Rebecca, Ben sounds a lot like my Girl.. Did you ever do Trialling with Ben? Or was he unsuitable because of his lack of eye? Quote
anngreenthumb Posted September 15, 2008 Report Posted September 15, 2008 My little man had no eye either. His trainer was not too worried. Said some dogs just dont control with eye right away. But he has superb body control, moving and controlling them properly with his body. Trainer had to be very tough at first because of the behaviors you were mentioning and he gets frustrated faster than a dog with eye. But he controls the sheep better now with practice and we noticed lately that he is using one eye on them ever so cautiously. So maybe he is learning it. Don't know, just trusting my trainer. Quote
CJ_&_Mitch Posted October 5, 2008 Report Posted October 5, 2008 I would like a good definition of "eye" in this situation. And here's why: Mitch approaches sheep upright (no crouch), staring intently. He can "lock onto" them with his eye and get stuck -- but then, once he breaks loose, he doesn't seem to know to use his "eye" to control them. Once in motion, he fits the "bull at a gate" description. Working too hard, too fast, too close. Maybe he's got it ("eye") but doesn't yet know how to use it? (He's 2, but only been working a few months.) I have a dog i am training, she is a great little worker and always tries her hardest but she hasn't the slightest amount of eye on sheep, it is really weird because when she plays with our other dogs all she does is 'Eye' them all the time.This girl is also a very busy worker and works like a "bull at a gate" all the time and I have to continually tell her to steady up. I have noticed that when the sheep begin to move too fast, instead of slowing down while she is behind them, she takes off in a wide circle around bothe me and the sheep and 'orbits' them as if to take the pressure off them.. Has anyone else ever had any experience with a dog lacking eye? Is there anything I could do with her to help develop some eye on stock? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Quote
Smokjbc Posted October 5, 2008 Report Posted October 5, 2008 Mike's dog has very little eye, he is very pushy and can get flanky if the sheep aren't moving well off him. With him, Mike has had to work hard on making walk up mean STRAIGHT and not floppy. We recently worked with a trainer who helped him with this alot, making straight, slow walk ups and small moves/flanks made a big difference in his flow. Quote
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