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Historical Pics of BCs from the BCSA


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http://www.bordercolliesociety.com/index_bcphotos.htm

 

BREED HISTORICAL PHOTO GALLERY

Compiled by Judy Menown

 

This is a collection of old Border Collie photos (or dogs that LOOK like Border Collies). They range from mid-1800s tintypes up to about 1950.

 

Our club is committed to the historical preservation of this incredible working breed and we take this very seriously. The photos collected here are intended to be used as a study tool to understand proper breed type of this classical farm dog. We hope you enjoy the photos and take pause to reflect on our responsibility to maintain this breed in an un-altered form that continues to honor its rich history as the premier sheep dog of the world.

 

What I find interesting, besides the above text, is the total lack of any stock shown in the pictures.

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I think it must be because of how they worked and how they were loved by their families. What a wonderful tribute!

I keep MY old dog pics, just in case- never know. I have a 1926 pic looks a lot like Migraine- paid a lot on e-bay. It's framed and on of my collectors. A VERY OLD PERINA AD. Gotta love it.

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Our club is committed to the historical preservation of this incredible working breed and we take this very seriously. The photos collected here are intended to be used as a study tool to understand proper breed type of this classical farm dog. We hope you enjoy the photos and take pause to reflect on our responsibility to maintain this breed in an un-altered form that continues to honor its rich history as the premier sheep dog of the world.

 

That's a load of sheep poop if I ever heard it.

 

As said, no dogs shown working. Also, barring just a couple, all heavy-boned, heavy-coated, lots of white dogs. How about showing dogs that contributed in a big way to the development of the breed and look nothing much like the AKC Barbie Collie? Half of these dogs look almost more like the ancestors of the Rough Collie in size and shape.

 

On the plus side, they do look like loved, appreciated dogs, which is a very good thing.

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Hello everyone,

 

I agree with others who feel that the text included with these photos is a load of sheep manure. However, it is good that they included the line that the dogs in these photos merely "look like Border Collies", as without documentation, there is no way to know what "breed" these dogs were. Actually, most of the dogs in these photos were probably considered to be "farm collies", which I believe is the basis for the English Shepherd breed.

 

 

Regards to all,

nancy

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Photos to preserve type..?!

 

The only thing I could see photos preserving is conformation. In addition, the selection of 'lookalikes' tells me that they're not, in fact, truly interested in type, but only their perception of type.

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Hmmmm...Aside from the lack of actual work being shown (and let's face it, even nonworking dogs can be photographed so as to look like they're working, so such photos don't really mean all that much), I saw a lot of diversity from smooth to rough, ears every which way, various colors and patterns. In that I think the photos do show a lot, namely that there is no one look for a border collie.

 

J.

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Hum, I hesitate to say anything...

 

but...:rolleyes:

 

my dogs don't look like those.

 

Also there are some great photos that go back many years found in some books...

 

One is-

The Blue Riband of the Heather by EB Carpenter

 

it is a collection of photos of supreme champions .....from 1906- 1995

 

they do show them working sheep.

 

:D

 

How come they don't include some of those old pics?

 

Aren't these English farm dog???? Maybe thats not the right name.....

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Well, in the defense of the photos and the lack of stock, I'm sure they weren't ALWAYS on stock. But, still, I'd like to see at least a few of them on sheep.

 

And also, in some of the older photos, where the dogs look less like "Border Collies", could it be that since they are older, they were still "becoming" the breed and possibly still be outcrossed to Rough Collies and such? I could be way off, but I just feel like the Border Collie in the 1800's is going to look slightly different from the ones we know today due to line-breeding/inbreeding. I'm more amateur in the history of the Border Collie than most amateurs, so I hope someone will chime in on this.

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I have seen very few "Working Pictures" of any animal prior to about 25 years ago or so, I wonder if photos were so prized that anyone that found themselves the subject of them wanted their best pose increasing the chances of getting a good shot, it's not like today where we can just delete and reshoot, or shoot countless shots and take the best. Even with horses, the old pictures are for the most part standing shots, did old photography allow for action shots? Or I wonder if they were such a risk that many photographers did not do them, the expense of the film, developing, etc, just to have them all blurred. I think we forget that once upon a time cameras were only in the possession of photographers, and the photographers had to handle the developing of the exposures themselves.

 

Looking at old pictures taking into account the people who owned the dog, what they did and how they did it would be about the only way to guess if the dog really worked, and your only guessing, you can only rely on written accounts, maybe notes on the back of the pictures.

 

Deb

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Well and once again we're talking about a breed that's not supposed to be defined by looks, right? To me any of the dogs in those photos could be border collies and could be working dogs. Maybe they were being selective and choosing dogs that looked the most like what they think a border collie should look like, but really some of those dogs didn't remind me at all of conformation-bred dogs, so I don't quite get some of the comments here.

 

J.

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Have they contacted Barbara Carpenter? She has a vast collection of material that spans the history of the breed. I'm not sure why not one single one of these showed a dog working - there are many pictures available before 1970. I've got some of my own, but they are are copyrighted magazine clippings. Probably they could get permission with no problem.

 

Why pre-1970s, anyway, by the way? Some of the most influential dogs of the breed appeared from 1969 on.

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That's a load of sheep poop if I ever heard it.

 

As said, no dogs shown working. Also, barring just a couple, all heavy-boned, heavy-coated, lots of white dogs. How about showing dogs that contributed in a big way to the development of the breed and look nothing much like the AKC Barbie Collie? Half of these dogs look almost more like the ancestors of the Rough Collie in size and shape.

 

On the plus side, they do look like loved, appreciated dogs, which is a very good thing.

 

Not to be picky, but a lot of the actual working sheepdogs I saw in Europe growing up were rough coated and big boned. Not to say that there weren't short coated slimmer dogs, but they were in the minority. And maybe I didn't notice them as I've always liked rough coated dogs. Personally I thought most of them were very talented mixes. :rolleyes: And maybe they were. But they did their job. I do think that many years ago the Rough Collie was much more of a utility breed than it is today so that may bring about some of the confusion.

 

Maria

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Well and once again we're talking about a breed that's not supposed to be defined by looks, right? To me any of the dogs in those photos could be border collies and could be working dogs. Maybe they were being selective and choosing dogs that looked the most like what they think a border collie should look like, but really some of those dogs didn't remind me at all of conformation-bred dogs, so I don't quite get some of the comments here.

 

J.

 

*nods* Yup.

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Could it be that the reason that none are shown working stock is that in the early days of photography cameras were not good enough to take moving pictures with any clarity? When you se pictures of early cameras they were tripod mounted and it seems the exposure time was longer than todays cameras.

 

Interesting photos.

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Our club is committed to the historical preservation of this incredible working breed and we take this very seriously. The photos collected here are intended to be used as a study tool to understand proper breed type of this classical farm dog.

 

I think it's interesting that they don't see how the second sentence is a total non sequitur given the first, but whatever.

 

I would not expect very many very old photos of working dogs since way back when they were using things like view cameras with glass plate negatives that were not exactly suited for action shots. That said, once medium and small format cameras came about (120mm and 35mm film) there is no reason why there would not be action photos. Autofocus is a rather new technology in photography (never mind digital), given how long people have been taking pictures, and photojournalists have taken plenty of action photos using manual focus film cameras. Also, there are plenty of relatively still, calm moments when working sheep that could be captured even by someone who is not particularly skilled at manual focus.

 

It is difficult to see "type" (of the kind they refer to) in an action shot, however, and I'm guessing that's why they included only still, posed photos.

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...proper breed type...

 

I think, as Melanie pointed out, that this is the crux of the dispute. They are utilizing these photos to further justify judging a dog by appearance. One could easily be very selective in their choice of photos with such a goal in mind, which I assume they were.

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...proper breed type...

 

I think that this is the crux of the dispute. They are utilizing these photos to further justify judging a dog by appearance. One could easily be very selective in their choice of photos with such a goal in mind, which I assume they were.

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I cannot understand why they are using these pictures which show family pets when there are plenty of photos which document the dogs which actually represent the dogs that shaped our breed. Well, yes I can. :rolleyes:

 

These dogs may or may not be Border Collies but they contributed in no significant way to the gene pool. If they had they wouldn't be anonymous.

 

Take any dog bred in the US before 1998 and show me the pedigree. I will get you photographs for 60% of the dogs listed, if not more. They will be Border Collies without doubt. I'll get you descriptions for many of the rest, including working style.

 

We think we live in the only information age. That started a long time ago. People way back in WW I times were able to take excellent "candid" photos - even before in the roaring twenties. Think of all the pictures you've seen of cars going down the road or sports photos, and of course war pictures. Before that, photos could be taken if the subject was reasonably still - and moving pictures have been around since those times.

 

Once again, the attempt is being made to rewrite history by "shrouding the origins of the Border Collie in the mists of time." They should be ashamed of themselves.

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