Boy acting different lately

[Miztiki]

Boyden has had severe SA since I got him. At the very beginning he would anxiously bark when I left him in the car, but that didn't last long at all, maybe a week or two.

 

The last few days or so he's back to being anxious about being left in the car and getting all worked up.

 

He's been grumpy within the last week. I had him leashed while eating (safety precaution) and was about 6 feet away from him on the couch. He pulled on the leash while eating (food slid on the floor a bit) and when he felt his collar pull on him from it, he got very snarly/growly and protective of his food.

 

He suddenly got snarly a few days prior too. He'd been making awesome progress with his food aggression issues recently, seeming to be totally comfortable with me, and even eating his food right next to Fynne with no anxiety at all.

 

He's suddenly become ball obsessed in the last few days. He's the same dog that never cared about balls or toys at all. He hoarded them and got onto Fynne when she got too close. He nipped me today when I pet him on his head when he came by me with the ball. Later on his ball rolled between the couch and crate where he couldn't get it, and he acted obsessed about that. I got the ball and put it away.

 

I see tonight that Fynne has a few holes in her muzzle. It appears that Boy bit her. He has been grumpy very recently and Fynne's been a bit wary of him.

 

He's not acting "off" like he did last year. He's not messing with his ears. Nothing like when he was weird last year. I'm not sure what's going on with him.

 

He's getting plenty of exercise. As usual, he's doing a strict form of NILIF.

 

I'll just keep this post up here so I can come back to it in case this continues.

[Black Watch Debatable]

[since tone on a message board can be tricky to read, let me state that I'm not trying to be argumentative or critical here---I'm just curious (and opinionated, of course ) and trying to be helpful.] Miz, I don't get why it's important for Boy to eat right next to Fynne. Might the stress of internalizing his anxiety be causing his moodiness?

When the animal reliably stops displaying the defined "problem" behavior, we say the problem has been solved. However, because nothing has been done to address the underlying fear that causes the problem, most likely any pain associated with the negative behavior persists. To this pain, we must also add whatever social isolation is experienced by an animal who shares a home with humans who a) don't recognize the underlying stress the problem behavior communicated, prevent the animal from relieving the stress in that manner, and c) don't offer the animal any viable alternate way to deal with that stress. [Link].

Of course it's important to address Boy's resource guarding in relation to people, but why with Fynne? I expect my own dogs to be pleased to allow me to reach into their food dishes up to my elbows, if it suits my fancy. But most are fed well apart from each other, not because of any squabbles but because it seems, for lack of a better phrase, more considerate of their feelings. Eating next to another dog can be extraordinarily stressful for some individuals, and maybe that is something that should be acknowledged and respected, and not considered a "problem behavior." (Final disclaimer: It's possible that the quote above and the article it's from---not to mention my opinions---may shed no light on this incident.)

[Miztiki]

Originally posted by Black Watch Debatable:

Miz, I don't get why it's important for Boy to eat right next to Fynne.

I don't mind a dog wanting their space to eat. That's normal.

 

Boy goes way over the top though. About a month or so ago she was in her crate finishing her meal. Boy had just finished his. I went to take him outside and he literally attacked her crate quite viciously. That was the second time (did it once last fall).

 

I am not going to tolerate such behavior, so I started working really hard on his food aggression, until he was calmly eating right next to her. They ate next to eachother twice, 3 weeks ago. I made my point and that was the end of it.

 

Since then Fynne is either crated or in another room when they eat. I am still keeping him leashed in case hubby walks by, or the cat walks by.

 

So anyway, that's why I had them eat near eachother, and I can't see how that and his behavior these last few days or so are related. He seems anxious recently - over his food, over being left in the car, and over balls of all things. That, and being grumpy towards Fynne.

[kelpiegirl]

Miz:

I think it would be best to hand feed him while leashed and/or crate him. The fact that he thinks he can go to Fynne's crate and try and get her food, AND he snarks at you, makes me believe that he does still think he is HIGH in pack order. Hoarding things, which my youngest girl does, is a sign that she is trying to control the pack. I don't give her the opportunity anymore- heck she can't even chew a bone without walking around with it in her mouth growling at the other dogs, and trying to get theirs. So, no more bones. Nothing high value, and if there is, they are all crated. It worries me that he has put holes in Fynne's muzzle. Even when my girl makes a TON of noise and tries to assert herself over others, there are no holes. You need to really put him in boot camp, and prevent anymore bad behaviour to you and Fynne- every dog has their breaking point, and one of these days, Fynne and Boy may have a real war.

Boy may have a physical reason for all of this, but since we don't know what it is, I suggest you manage his eating times really well, and keep him from Fynne when either are eating; just because you tell him he must eat near her, does not mean he *likes* it, and it may even increase his aggression toward her because of it.

Julie

[Dixie_Girl]

I have fed all three animals raw meat etc. together, that's two dogs and a cat. They know when I say one of their names, that is who is getting it. I have had Jackson since he was a puppy and I never let food be an obsession. Cheyenne, who I also had since she was 10days old, was not raised with any other dogs. When I finish my food, if there is left overs on my plate, I give it to the dogs. I just put the plate on the floor. Jackson just dives right in. Cheyenne, not used to sharing would growl and try snipping at Jackson. At which time I removed her from the plate and made her watch Jackson enjoy the food. She soon learned, if she didn't share, she didn't get any. It isn't a matter of "wanting" them to eat together, just that it is easier. But I also feed kibble. And the bowls are always filled so they get to eat when they want, and it is always there. I think this also helps in food aggresion. That doesn't mean Jackson ain't a little turd sometimes. Not with food but water. Example, if Jackson is drinking and he sees Cheyenne wanting a drink he will "take his time" finishing. When I call him off, he gets a look like, gee whiz, I was just messing around!

But feeding raw, it is a different thing. There is only a set amount of food, and when it is gone, it's gone.

Is it possible Boy isn't getting enough to eat? That he feels Fynne is getting more? It would also make him more snarky towards her at other times. Perhaps with his other insecurities, not getting enough to eat may manifest itself into other forms of aggresion too. Just a thought.

[Lunar]

My first thought when I read this is that he's turning his anxiety/control issues elsewhere. He's no longer acting weird around the food - you got them to eat calmly side by side - and the ball is his new thing. He sounds really insecure, and the ball thing is something he can control. I really don't know how to go about solving it, as I've never dealt with it before - Zeeke has guarding issues, but it sounds very different. I forget, do you have a behavioralist you talk to about Boy? I'd definitely work with him that way, with a trainer.

[2 Devils]

If Boy is the one with the aggression why is Fynne being punished by being crated.

 

I have said it before, crate them both BEFORE and real fight occurs and either one of them or the humans get seriously injured.

 

You can work on the resouce separate than the food and then work on that...

[Miztiki]

Feeding Fynne in her crate is not punishment Kim.

 

Natalie, exactly. He seems anxious and insecure these last several days or so and I don't know why.

 

My time with the behaviorist has expired.

 

Linda, yes, he's getting plenty to eat.

 

Julie, he's always thought he's high in the pack order. He's a very confident, dominant dog. That's why I'm so strict with him.

 

I'm guessing that he bit her muzzle while we were outside playing ball (which we just started doing a few days ago). Yesterday I put him on the long line while we played so that I could control him some. They will learn to take turns. I bought 8 balls and was whacking them all over. That first day he gathered them all up in one spot and got protective of them when Fynne came near. Firstly I was surprised that he played the game at all, but was even more surprised that he became protective over them.

 

Boy has excellent bite inhibition, so the holes in her muzzle concern me also.

 

I'm not sure what's going on with him the last few days or so.

[Woodenlion]

Maybe Boy picking up on your excitement over the trip?

 

Toni

[kelpiegirl]

Hey Miz:

You know, I have a dog who sometimes is "grumpy". I can tell it by her earset, and her eyes. Usually it is due to not getting enough work (for her it is agility) or play- frisbee. Sometimes though, it appears even after we have worked. I think I may have it figured out, but not totally, so when she gets in one of her "moods" she just goes in her crate. When I put her in her crate, she seems to re-center herself, and when she comes out she is very happy. Sometimes, dogs just act badly, and need to take a time out- just like kids. How great it would be to be able to TALK with them!

Julie

[PennyT]

Didn't the dog just hurt himself recently?

 

He could be in pain or could have overheated (walking oddly is a sign of that) and had some physical changes.

 

Penny

[Miztiki]

Yeah, his back end was weak for a very short while after chasing balls. That *might* explain his grumpiness but not the anxiety when left in the car, or the sudden obsessive interest in balls because those started a couple days before.

 

I can't imagine that Toni. The trip is still 3 months away so I haven't gotten to the excited point yet.

 

You know Julie, maybe he just has mood swings. I don't know. He's such an incredibly balanced and stable, obedient and easy-going dog. The only time he wasn't was when we both got sick last fall. We didn't go anywhere yesterday but he wasn't grumpy. We played with the balls too, some of the time on a long lead, and there were no problems.

 

Maybe he's got PMS.

[Tammy525]

Anything to do with Flynne biting you? An interactive/reactive type of problem? Is the timing together?

[2 Devils]

Miztiki - I was not necessarily saying Fynne is being punished per se - but it seems that Fynne is given much stricter rules than Boy. He gets alot more freedom than Fynne. Maybe he needs to be given a lot less freedom and Fynne more.

[Miztiki]

Not at all. I'm much stricter with Boy than with Fynne. I have to be or he'll get too big for his britches. Fynne is harmless, unless you're a squirrel or something.

 

No, wrong timing. I'm not worried about it, just not sure why his behavior would suddenly change.

[Carson Crazies]

You know, Michelle, what you describe from Boy is VERY similar to what I was seeing in Ginger before we found the arthritis in her back. She was hoarding and guarding things, snarling and grumbling at the other dogs, picking fights, reacting over the top about strange things... Out of nowhere she started limping etc.

 

I thought it was all a reaction to a new dog in the pack. While that may have been part of it, the change in her attitude (back to normal) since getting on supplements is drastic enough to make it more obvious just how much her pain was affecting her attitude. Makes me wonder if he was walking funny due to some sort of pain in his back, or something of that nature? Pain somewhere? Makes me wonder if his attitude and behavior is in relation to pain somewhere. I never knew Ginger was in the amount of pain she was in. It had to get unbearable for her to even acknowlege it - and when the vet looked she didn't notice any reaction. It was only in the X-Rays that they found it. Just makes me wonder :confused: .

[Miztiki]

Ok, this is getting strange.

 

I just fed the dogs in seperate rooms. I set Boy's food down and put him in a down-stay. He began drooling ALOT, like that first day when I found out he had separation anxiety, and he was trembling. His muscles on top of his head were trembling under my hand too, so I took him outside for some hard exercise.

 

I brought him back in and he panted for a while and calmed down somewhat, so I gave him his food.

 

Why would he suddenly be so anxious recently? Anxious about being left in the car, anxious over the balls, anxious over his food...?

 

It doesn't make sense. Laura, do you think hidden pain could cause him to suddenly become anxious? Did Ginger show any behavior like anxiety? Something you wouldn't necessarily associate with pain?

 

He wasn't at all aggressive tonight and he was very obedient, just very, very anxious in a bad way. Hubby got paid today, so he'll be going to the vet and getting his spine x-rayed. Should I have the vet check for anything else? This isn't making sense.

[RaisingRiver]

If Boy does have an injury - he would know it and feel he must fiercely defend his position in the pack, since it will soon be apparent to all that he is weaker then before.

 

The guarding, hoarding, etc. could all be a front to cover that he is weaker then he appears.

 

I'll be awaiting to see what his x-rays show...

 

I hope it works out.

[Dixie_Girl]

Pain could do it. I know how I get when I'm in pain. Please let us know how the x-rays turn out. It must be awful, seeing him go through this and not knowing why.

[Kitch]

When was the last time he was checked for Lymes? I would have them run a tick panel as well...

[donna frankland (uk)]

have you had his thyroid checked? a full panel test (i think its a six panel test).

i have no experience myself with it but on a different list mood swings and anxiety were the only symptom displayed by a members dog and it took forever to realise it was in fact an underactive thyroid. i will ask on the list for the details of this dogs behaviour to cross post if you like, though it may take a little while.

[Carson Crazies]

Pain does strange things to people and animals, and it wouldn't surprise me if this were a reaction to pain. That being said, it seems like something is going on, whether it be pain, or whatever. I recall you had him treated for Lyme's last year, is that right? My first thoughts are pain, tick borne illnesses, neurological problems, or thyroid issues. Any time something like this shows up suddenly (or comes and goes) it makes me wonder what is going on physically.

[Miztiki]

Boy goes in for x-rays Thursday morning. I'll tell the vet about his anxiousness too.

 

He tested negative for any tick born diseases but was given a course of Tetracycline anyway, just in case. His thyroid was checked last year also, and that was normal.

 

His neuro exam last year had a few findings. There's definately something wrong with his back but because he had no symptoms, we decided to wait until we could afford it. Then I broke my ankle and had to wait on that.

 

The vet is going to repeat the other two tests from the neuro exam and see if she can elicit the same responses.

 

I guess we'll go from there.

 

He hasn't been grumpy the last couple of days - no aggression. If this odd behavior continues then I'll send him for an MRI. That would mean no trip to NC for the get-together though. We can't afford both.

 

I'll let you know what the vet says. Let me know if you find any info Donna, and thanks to all of you.

[Dixie_Girl]

Miztiki, if that is the case I will just have to get a run to Houston and pick you and ? in the big truck! Sure hope it doesn't come to that (the mri) Hopefully it is something easly remedied. Prayers are with you and Boy

[Maralynn]

Have you considered checking into a vetrinary chiropractor? If his back is out, that could be painful for him.

 

Has his unusual behavior coincided with him pulling you in the wheelchair?

 

I hope the x-rays on Thursday will help to shed some light on things!