Venting About Puppy Mills

[esox]

We took Ozzy, our younger Black Lab, to the Vet yesterday for a followup on his thyroid and to have his leg x rayed. His limping is getting worse and worse. Result, in addition to his thyroid problem, chronic yeast infections in his ears, skin issues, he has arthritis. He is only 2 years old. It is so frustrating to see him suffer.

He is now a special trial food. Hills/Science Diet has come up with a joint helping food. If that doesn't start to help in a couple of weeks then the vet wants to give him pain medications in addition to his thyroid med and glucosamine.

Could use some good mojo for the little guy.

 

Esox

[JaderBug]

Wishing Ozzy mojo...

 

My aunt and uncle have a black German Shepherd that came from a puppy mill... she is 7 years old now and has had arthritis and hip dysplasia since she was two. I believe she has a couple of other health (digestive?) problems as well. Stinkin' puppy mills... I can't believe pet stores can sell those dogs, typically to uneducated (ignorant) people who I would assume would get blindsided when at such a young age they are inflicted with many medical problems.

[jdarling]

Arthritis / hip dysplasia = puppymill?

 

And those poor, ignorant puppy buyers. Shame on those pet stores for selling to people who choose not to educate themselves.

[Root Beer]

There are two products you might want to discuss with your vet.

 

I use a supplement called Dog Gone Pain for Speedy for his arthritis. It makes SUCH a difference. He has been on it for almost two years now and I have not had to put him on regular pain meds yet. That time will come, but thus far, the DGP is working beautifully.

 

I also use a supplement by Dogzymes called Phyto-Flex with Sammie. It's a joint supplement and it has made a huge difference for him.

 

For the yeast infections, you might check out a product called Zymox-Otic. It has been the only thing that has helped Sammie's ears stay in pretty good shape. It hasn't cleared out the yeast/gunk completely, but it really makes a big difference.

 

Just some options for you to consider. I've had good success with all of those things.

[JaderBug]

And those poor, ignorant puppy buyers. Shame on those pet stores for selling to people who choose not to educate themselves.

 

I can't stand those pet stores... I recently went into one of those Petland stores just to confirm to myself how bad it was, unfortunately I was right. It was terrible. All those puppies there and many different breeds (especially the teenie designer ones for people who want a pooping accessory)... there was a GSD puppy there with something wrong with it's neck, bare, naked, and it just looked raw. I felt so bad for it. Thank doG there weren't any BC puppies there, I would have felt compelled to rescue it. Those places need to be shut down.

 

I also have a big problem with people who just kind of decide 'oh I want a puppy' and don't do any research or preparation for it. I planned Jade for over a year (granted I was living in the dorms for a third of it) and I watched a lot of people around me say 'oh I want a dog' and went and bought one within a month. Drives me nuts... stupid people. Then they come to me for help. I'm somewhat flattered, but it tends to be really simple stuff that I think they should have known better about anyway.

[Lenajo]

unfortunately I've seen dogs from good breeding and breeders who end up this way due to overvaccination, bad feeding,and bad upbringing.

 

I'm *not* implying anything about your dog or you specifically, don't know you!; just pointing out that the conditions you are listing are not necessarily the result of a puppy mill. And if they are, there are things you can do that may help/alleviate his issues to the point he can have a happy life.

 

I've personally helped with dogs that when taken off Science Diet and put on raw food. Their ears and skin cleared up, and that "uncurable" early arthritis simply vanished.

 

One of those dogs was my own. We cleared it all up with food, then the vet insisting on revaccinating her for "yearlies" (which we know now is complete bunk) and she crashed with a double ear infection, her hair developed greasy streaks, she itched all over, and her previously normal thyroid dropped too low. According to vaccine/thyroid expect W. Jean Dodds DVM, it was without a doubt a vaccine reaction, and a common one.

 

 

 

 

 

We took Ozzy, our younger Black Lab, to the Vet yesterday for a followup on his thyroid and to have his leg x rayed. His limping is getting worse and worse. Result, in addition to his thyroid problem, chronic yeast infections in his ears, skin issues, he has arthritis. He is only 2 years old. It is so frustrating to see him suffer.

He is now a special trial food. Hills/Science Diet has come up with a joint helping food. If that doesn't start to help in a couple of weeks then the vet wants to give him pain medications in addition to his thyroid med and glucosamine.

Could use some good mojo for the little guy.

 

Esox

[Lenajo]

The most important thing people can learn about "rescuing" from a pet store is there is no such thing. Because when you buy that puppy, regardless of reason, you have just dam*ed that now "profit making" dam and sire back in the mill to another litter.

 

If you can't walk away, don't go in there.

[JaderBug]

The most important thing people can learn about "rescuing" from a pet store is there is no such thing. Because when you buy that puppy, regardless of reason, you have just dam*ed that now "profit making" dam and sire back in the mill to another litter.

 

If you can't walk away, don't go in there.

 

Good point. I guess I more meant to get that poor dog out of such a terrible situation, you're absolutely right, buying it will just create more problems.

[Lenajo]

Good point. I guess I more meant to get that poor dog out of such a terrible situation, you're absolutely right, buying it will just create more problems.

 

I don't go in there myself. My friends would prefer I not call them sobbing, sniveling and hiccuping (mostly because they are as big a sucker as I am).

 

Definately not a place to go with PMS - someone would get shot <just kidding...really>

[IronHorse]

We took Ozzy, our younger Black Lab, to the Vet yesterday for a followup on his thyroid and to have his leg x rayed. His limping is getting worse and worse. Result, in addition to his thyroid problem, chronic yeast infections in his ears, skin issues, he has arthritis. He is only 2 years old. It is so frustrating to see him suffer.

He is now a special trial food. Hills/Science Diet has come up with a joint helping food. If that doesn't start to help in a couple of weeks then the vet wants to give him pain medications in addition to his thyroid med and glucosamine.

Could use some good mojo for the little guy.

 

Esox

 

I am rather confused here.

What does your statement have to do with Puppymills?

Could you possibly be abit more specific as to how all your dog's health issues are related to puppymills?

[Root Beer]

I also have a big problem with people who just kind of decide 'oh I want a puppy' and don't do any research or preparation for it.

 

True ignorance really just is what it is, though. You can't "know better" if you really don't know better.

 

We adopted Sammie from the SPCA and purchased Speedy from a breeder without any research or preparation. We honestly didn't ever think of such a thing. When I was a kid, my Dad brought home a mutt puppy that had been abandoned in town (we knew who his owners were, but they denied he was theirs). We didn't do research, we just took in the dog and kept him. That's the way I saw it done as a kid and that's the way we went about it when we got our first two dogs. We wanted dogs, we got dogs. That was all there really was to it.

 

Before we had Sammie and Speedy, I didn't know there were "BC Boards" or any other online resources with information about different types of dogs. I didn't know about breed rescues - I had never heard of such a thing. I didn't know that different types of dogs were so very different. To me a dog was a dog and I think that's the case with a lot of people until they find themselves in "too deep" with a behavioral problem or other issue that leads them to seek more information later. For me, curiosity about the Border Collie once we had the puppy was what motivated me to do some research - ex post facto though it was.

 

Really we should have "known better", but we simply didn't. So it really doesn't matter what we "should" have known.

 

It wasn't a slap in the face to those who took time and did research and made a careful decision. We went off the knowledge that we had and it was what it was. I wouldn't go about it that way now, but at the time that's where we were.

 

I know that impulse purchases of Border Collies and other dogs ends in tragedy for many. I've evaluated quite a few rescue dogs who are in horrible circumstances because the owner didn't know better when he or she got the puppy. I always advise research, research, and more research to those who ask me about getting a Border Collie.

 

At the same time, I thank God from the bottom of my heart that I didn't know better. I might have missed out on Speedy, and that would have been a great loss for both of us.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't be annoyed. It's just good to look at both sides of the issue.

[JaderBug]

Good point, Root Beer, but from your story it seems that you've had dogs before... I guess I meant more for people who hadn't had a dog and had never raised a puppy before, or were young enough with their dogs that they didn't actually have much to do with the actual raising of the dogs. Or at the very least, getting the dog and not already having any of what you need for it... crate, bowls, food, toys, etc. Or, the people that buy them 'because they're just so kyooote'.

 

Thank you for the perspective though, I guess I hadn't thought of it that way!

[MrSnappy]

Actually, ignorance can be willful.

 

There is NO shortage of information available about the horrors of puppymills. 60 Minutes and 20/20 and Discovery Channel and Animal Planet etc. etc. etc. do exposes on this subject often enough. The information is available by typing "pet store puppy" into a search engine. I mean really, 10 seconds of research should give you the ammo you need to NOT buy a pet store puppy.

 

However, some people do not like to associate their effect with any kind of cause. They aren't interested, don't care, are willfully stupid etc. I met a guy in the park with a little maltese and he had purchased it at the local pet store in the mall for $1100.00. He was a little annoyed because he has bought another one three weeks earlier that died a week after he brought it home from something congenital, and the refund period was up so he had to buy the second one too. It's sort of mind boggling, really.

 

I recognize that not everyone is well versed in dog "stuff" and that there are still lots of people who think Petfinder is a big dog rescue organization and that looking in the newspaper is the best way to find a breeder etc. ... but unless you are a complete social recluse, it is impossible to not have heard at least one story about puppymills and how bad they are.

 

Consumers are frustrating. I have little sympathy for someone who buys a pet store puppy and then complains about its problems. These same people will do 64 hours of research on their plasma television so they can watch NASCAR in almost life size, but will buy a puppy on a whim in a store while shopping for socks.

 

There was a news story here about a woman who was super mad because she bought a $1400.00 puppy from a chain store under the impression it was a chihuahua and about 6 months later learned she had purchased a MinPin. She tried to sue the pet store for false advertising. What a complete moron. Her AND the sales staff.

 

No sympathy, except for the dogs. The dogs are the ones that suffer.

RDM

[Lenajo]

2 former coworkers of mine, both with masters degrees and responsible for the lives of many people. Intelligent, up to date, "earth friendly" kind people.

 

yet they buy 2 Bouviers, littermates, so they can raise pups in their apartment. Their "dream". 2 BOUVIER....as in 90 lb working dogs who need regular grooming and more than regular exercise and training. Never mind breeding mill bred *littermates* together. These people bought them for a pet store in New York - oh, about 1100 miles away, because "that's the only place you can get dogs like this".

 

For...ta da...$1800 each. EACH.

 

Jaderbug may be flattered by being the "dog lady" (my quotes) with her friends and acquaintences but I've long ago decided circumstances like the above were reasons to remain incognito at work.

 

"Hey, you know about dogs..."

 

makes me want to say "no, no speeka Englisha. No Doggie. No No"

 

Anybody want a Bouvier pup? A really interesting one?

[MrSnappy]

A couple years ago the Administrative Assistant in the Head Office at the main branch of the SPCA went and bought a puppy from a pet store.

 

From a pet store that was under investigation by (drumroll please) the SPCA.

 

The owners of the pet store breed most of their own dogs on their parents' property, and something like 50 of them had been seized for neglect and cruelty just prior to this. BY THE SPCA!!!

 

If that is not willful ignorance, then I do not know what is.

 

We had a fellow in our neighborhood with two Bouviers. He spent his days walking and walking and walking and those dogs walked along with him. They were iconic in the downtown core.

 

Last year or the year before, someone found the two bouviers sitting on the seawall in Stanley Park, crying. It was night time and they wouldn't move. Eventually the police were called. Their owner's body washed up the shore the next day. Evidently he had suffered a heart attack and fell into the ocean and drowned. It was the saddest thing. Those dogs were beyond loyal to that man. We used to walk with them a lot

 

RDM

[Jack & Co.]

I experienced the same thing with a friend, Lenajo. Smart, talented, well-educated friend "always wanted a Saint Bernard" so he got one from a local pet store. At the time, his children (twins) were 3 years old. He was surprised the puppy knocked them down and played too rough. The wife banned the dog from the house because he was messy, etc., so the dog was stuck in a drafty dog house in the back yard where he chewed up the kids' toys and left large piles of you-know-what. Friend said to me, "You've got a nice dog. How did you train him?" I said, "Puppy First Grade! It's great!" Friend goes to Puppy First Grade and is sorry because there is "homework" to do with the dog outside of class.

 

Fast forward, my friend, Mary volunteers at the animal shelter, and calls to tell me that they received a SB who was an owner surrender. It's my friend's SB! He just took it to the animal shelter to be rid of it! Mary calls the Saint Bernard rescue folks and off he goes to a better life.

[kelpiegirl]

My gps' raised Bouvs. We had one from a litter they raised. Tally, the dog we had only ever bonded to my grandfather. Tally liked us, but only ever got excited when my grandfather came over. Very loyal dogs.

[puppytoes]

I consider myself a relatively intelligent person and i totally agree that pet stores are BAD. We used to have a puppy store on one of our trendiest streets and it made me sick how many people were in there considering buying these little puppies. At the time i had a dog that had been adopted as a puppy and then dumped at one year. I walked into the pet store and asked what happened to the puppies that were not bought before they got to big to be cute in the window display. The lady told me that never happened. I asked where the dogs came from. She said Alberta (at least a 1000 kms away). I asked whether they came form a puppy mill. She insisted that they didn't. So i asked whether they provided the name and address of the breeder and whether the breeder would take them back if there were issues. It was right about this point that she asked me to leave the store.

 

So when the time was finally right to add to our family, i was definately thinking rescue. I had been turned onto the idea by an agility coach that was involved in rescue and told me that if i ever wanted another BC i should contact them. Unfortunately when i was ready, our local rescue did not have many dogs for adoption and no puppies. So i broadened my search but still no luck. So i went looking on petfinder. I always assumed that they simply provided access to the many shelters that maybe did not get enough exposure. Is there someting about Petfinder that i don't know about?

 

I recognize that not everyone is well versed in dog "stuff" and that there are still lots of people who think Petfinder is a big dog rescue organization

RDM

[juliepoudrier]

I always assumed that they simply provided access to the many shelters that maybe did not get enough exposure. Is there someting about Petfinder that i don't know about?

You assumed correctly. The point RDM was making was that even though it's pretty clear from the Petfinder site itself that Petfinder is a place where shelters or rescues can get exposure for dogs that are up for adoption at individual shelters and rescues across the country, there are still folks who erroneously believe that Petfinder itself is some sort of rescue. (That is, that people are willfully ignorant--they choose to believe what they want even in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary.)

 

J.

[vanillalove]

I also have a big problem with people who just kind of decide 'oh I want a puppy' and don't do any research or preparation for it. I planned Jade for over a year (granted I was living in the dorms for a third of it) and I watched a lot of people around me say 'oh I want a dog' and went and bought one within a month. Drives me nuts... stupid people. Then they come to me for help. I'm somewhat flattered, but it tends to be really simple stuff that I think they should have known better about anyway.

 

I have a massive problem with these people. I currently attend university and the end of the year is always a major frustration for me. It's the same time that my classmates' leases come to an end or are buying into their first home. Every year, some group of girls who are going to be living in an hour together, decide that they want a cute, little, toy breed puppy. And every year, some group of girls gets a cute, little, toy breed puppy from a pet store. And every year, I lecture until the point where I want to smack them, and then I shut up. And every year, something goes wrong with the new puppy. One house of girls "accidently" left their pet snake with their Yorkshire Terrier and the pup lost an eye. Another year, 3 (yes, 3!) houses of girls bought puppies from the same pet store and during a party the tiny pup ran out into the road and got hit by cars. I know they didn't involve the consequences of puppy mills, but it just shows the ignorance of some people.

 

I can hardly look at those people anymore. I realize that not every one is savvy with dog knowledge, but I can't talk to people who pretend to be and then get proved so wrong. My roommate is a fish out of water when it comes to our pets, but she lets it be and lets me handle the "technical" stuff that she knows she doesn't understand.

[Ooky]

I know what you guys mean about being disappointed in otherwise intelligent, thoughtful people you know. What about family members?

 

I am right now dealing with my thoughts on this regarding my future sister-in-law. She is a nice person and my brother seems to be deeply in love with her. She is young and I know she has a lot to learn, but her general attitude towards animals is freaking me out. She moved in with my brother (a small 3rd floor condo) and immediately started pushing for a dog. For several months he told her no. I didn’t like it though – she kept going to the pet store in the mall and begging him. DH (he was deep, deep in rescue for many years) and I worked on her to stop going to the d*mn pet store, explaining why it was imperative she give up that idea now. She would seem to get our points, but just couldn’t stop coming back to the point that that was the “only way” to get the bassett hound she desired. We also tried to tell her maybe they aren’t the best breed for an apt. due to noise issues, and they have a lot of care required for ears, etc. But I would have been happy if we could just get it through her head that she cannot under any circumstances consider a petstore, puppymill pup.

 

Fast forward a few months, and my brother finally caved. However, he wisely insisted the dog would be a large or med-sized mutt from the local shelter, not a puppymill basset hound. They got an 8 wk old puppy, a labX named Chewie. Now, why he would insist on getting a puppy is beyond me, as they both work 2 jobs and she’s going to school. Like any lab puppy, she is a bundle of loopy energy, but she is very sweet and really well-crate trained. They keep her in the crate the maximum limit (8-9 hrs) each day, and she sleeps in it at night. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this, but when they come home the puppy needs a lot of exercise, training, and attention. Now that my brother is working nights (he’s a football coach), the pup apparently isn’t getting it. My sister-in-law-to-be is upset because 1) the puppy won’t leave her alone and let her do her homework, 2) won’t stop barking at her when she tried to ignore the pup while doing said homework, 3) won’t listen to anything she says, 4) jumps around too much and chews on too much stuff. My brother has started taking the pup over to my parents’ house (they live nearby) and dropping her off in between work and football practice so the dog will get attention and exercise and SIL can do her homework. All of this has led SIL to wistfully mention the cute, calm, perfect pet store basset she *could have had, if not for my brother weird insistence that they not go that route. She sees their current problems as indication that shelter dogs suck, rather than realizing she just doesn't actually want a puppy and the responsibilities that go along with, period.

 

The fact that my brother wants to have children with this person makes me queasy. She’s young, but the whole thing with the dog, from start to finish, smacks of “willful ignorance” and a selfish attitude and lack of empathy towards other living beings in general. Sigh. I wish I lived nearer so I could bring Chewie over a few evenings a week to play and exercise and train with her “cousin” Odin. She seems like a typical lab, so goofy and energetic, and with nowhere near the focus and biddability of a BC, but a total sweetheart all the same.

[Shetlander]

Could use some good mojo for the little guy.

 

You got it.

 

Have you considered going a more holistic route by any chance? Sometimes when conventional veterinary care isn't helping, or it is becoming more testing, more meds, etc., it helps to try a different approach. That's what I ended up doing with Quinn after over 2 1/2 years trying to get a handle on his IBD and increasingly shot immune system. Just something to consider.

 

Good luck. Hope your pup and you find some relief!

[esox]

To answer the puppy mill question put forward - he was purchased from Maxie Biggs. Basically he was sent in a truckload of puppies to NY.

Although I had nothing to do with purchasing him ( It was a spur of the moment decision by Jackie after we had lost one of our Labs) I love him dearly. Nothing I can do to change the decision now. The only thing I can do is make sure he is well taken care of , happy, and comfortable.

 

Alex, who is my BC, was purchased from a good breeder who only breeds every other year.

 

Esox

[beachdogz]

My neighbors were having arthritis issues with their 13 year old dog, and put her on glucosomine

chews and it has made a miraculous difference.

 

They are called "Joint MAX TRIPLE Strength SOFT CHEWS " and they are from:

http://www.HealthyPets.com

 

They give her one a day, and she loves them. She runs and plays like a puppy again.

 

Best of luck!

[Reddii]

I'm sitting here playing on the computer with my Pet Store puppy lying asleep at my feet. She is the most gorgeous girl in the entire world, nice and straight, great teeth, beautiful markings, but every day I have her I can't help but feel nervous about how she will be in another six months and another after that.

 

I hate pet shops and puppy mills with a passion.............this is my story - a story of ignorance, mistakes and learning.

 

My wife and I decided we wanted a dog, had never wanted one before, but the time had come. When I was a kid puppies came from pet stores - so off to the pet store we went. Picked out a beautiful little man and took him home. Beautful little man was lonely and barked all the time so we went and got him a little girl friend from the same pet store (little girl sleeping at my feet).

 

My pup was dog aggressive from the word go, he was poorly weaned (sucked on everything like he was suckling on his mum) and to cap it off started to limp at 4 months of age. If there was a mistake we made it - totally ignorant of how to raise a puppy and what to do or who to talk to when we had a problem. At this point we sent him off to doggie boot camp to be trained - another mistake, but at least we had started on the road to better behaved puppies.

 

Long story short - at 7 months Rex was diagnosed with OCD. The only course of action open to us was surgery to correct the condition at that point with the possibility of follow surgery in another 12 months, then pain management for the rest of his life. We made a very difficult decision and had Rex put to sleep - I couldn't see a totally psycho high drive puppy living a restrained life and being perpetually medicated.

 

The upside is that we now have two very well trained dogs who compete in agility, flyball and frisbee and will one day enter the obedience ring if ever I get to it. My boy is a beatiful pedigree BC and my little girl BC is just the most amazing dog. Even so a lot of our friends (all dog people these days) shake their heads in wonderment at how anyone could sell a dog like her to complete novices with no real knowledge of the breed. These days she is perfect in our dog sport mad house, but if she was unlucky enough to end up in another home she would be an ideal candidate for a quick trip to the pound - high drive, pushy, totally destructive if not constantly stimulated.

 

I just wish there was something that could be done about people who just breed indiscriminately or worse still with intent and then ship the puppies off to the highest bidder.