Performing commands on YOUR terms

[JaderBug]

I need suggestions for getting Jade to perform commands (tricks, anything to reinforce NILIF) on my terms. She will do everything (usually at once) you want her to do if you have a treat in your hand, but if not its nearly impossible. She'll look at me like "So? what do you want from me?" and fairly blatantly seem to ignore me. I'd like to get her to do tricks for her toys, but past sit and lie down she won't do anything else, I figure because she's so focused on the toy.

 

Any suggestions?

[Shetlander]

Time to fade the treats out. Praise and treat one time. Just praise the next. Eventually go longer periods without a treat, but "ping pong" back and forth between numbers of reps without a treat. In other words, you don't want her to see a pattern to when she'll get her treat and you don't want her to turn off if she becomes frustrated by moving too quickly to too long of intervals between treats. And never show her a treat before she is asked to do something. Then it becomes the dreaded bribe. I usually have treats close by or on me, but my dogs don't get treated constantly. It is just something that is always possible in their minds. Sometimes for something really great, I'll praise and say "lets go get a cookie!" They seem to understand by time we get to the treats why they were treated. Or maybe not, but for whatever reason my dogs are ok without getting treated though they prefer cookies, of course.

 

Treats, toys can be faded but that can be very tricky for many people who clicker train or use lots of rewards in their training. You see the same thing with other techniques -- where a person can't get their dog to walk calmly without a prong or a no-pull harness. The dog hasn't learn what to do without that prompt or device in place. The treat, collar, harness, whatever are only tools which can be limited by how they are used.

[Root Beer]

I need suggestions for getting Jade to perform commands (tricks, anything to reinforce NILIF) on my terms. She will do everything (usually at once) you want her to do if you have a treat in your hand, but if not its nearly impossible. She'll look at me like "So? what do you want from me?" and fairly blatantly seem to ignore me. I'd like to get her to do tricks for her toys, but past sit and lie down she won't do anything else, I figure because she's so focused on the toy.

 

Any suggestions?

 

I would start by having a bowl of treats on a counter or shelf next to me. At first let her see that they are there. For correction performance on cue, I would treat from the bowl.

 

From there I would start to move away from the bowl and make a game of running to the bowl to get a treat. At first I would do that for every correct response.

 

Once the dog could do this in a different room from the bowl, I would start to move to variable reinforcement (2 correct behaviors - go reward; 3 correct behaviors - go reward; 1 correct behavior - go reward)

 

Tricks for toys can be tough for a dog that is very toy focused. Speedy really can't do it. Dean can, but I started having him do behaviors for toys before he go really excited about toys.

 

If you want to condition your dog to do tricks for toys, I would start very simple and reward the slightest correct performance and build from there.

 

Hope that helps.

[SincereArtisan]

I'd look into clicker training, too, and fading the treats in favor of the clicker.

 

Also, when my dogs get TOO wound up over what I'm asking them to do, and they start throwing my tricks left and right to get that treat, I tell them 'No' and tuck my hands in my pockets and turn away for a minute. This gives them a sec to regain composure, and takes away what they wanted so bad...not wanting me to repeat such an action, they listen better the second time around.

 

I've used this one technique to focus my dogs when leash training...when their attention drifts to the point of distraction, or if the leash goes taut as they tug, I turn sharply in the other direction and walk briskly away. This works better if you are using a 'choke' training collar, but I understand some people are opposed to it. This helps them watch ME and keep an eye on what I am going to do. Yes, they can sniff that bush, or flagstone, or whatever...but buddy you better have an ear in my direction because I don't like meeting resistance, lol. (No one get bent out of shape, please, I don't jerk and drag my dogs around everywhere I go, and our choke chains are only ever in use when I need to ensure that they stay focused.) So perhaps strapping a leash to your dog, and when she starts to blow you off, you turn and walk briskly away...and perhaps when she joins you, this is when you treat her. Just a thought....

[Devi]

I'd look into clicker training, too, and fading the treats in favor of the clicker.

 

Fading the treats in favor of the clicker? Maybe I am misreading your post, but the clicker is a conditioned reinforcer that always means a treat is coming, whether it's in the form of a treat or a game or a release to a "life reward" of some sort. You never click and don't reward.

 

Jade's response isn't unusual and she isn't being stubborn. She's learned that the only time there is an opportunity for reinforcement is when a reward that she can see or smell is present. Plenty of dogs learn this, but it's easy to remedy. Teach Jade that reinforcement is always available. One way to do that is to keep small containers of treats in all areas of the house and keep dry cookies (such as Charlee Bears) in your pockets when possible. Try really hard not to let her see you reach into the cookie jar before a training session. If you're preparing for a training session, put Jade somewhere else while you do. Only reach into your pocket/bait bag after you click. This is a big one!

 

Suppose you're sitting down at the computer or on the couch and the dogs are playing nicely on the floor or lying calmly. Reach into your pocket or the nearest container of treats when they aren't looking and suddenly toss a cookie in front of them. Your dog might realize you threw it, but s/he certainly won't be expecting it. The mindset of "there is always an opportunity for reinforcement" will start to creep in.

 

To begin using toys as rewards, don't show her the toy before you start training. Have it behind you or nearby on a surface so that you can reach for it quickly. Ask for a behavior. If she's successful, click, bring the toy out and initiate a game. Just do one extremely rewarding repetition if she can't mentally handle doing a trick /after/ she's been rewarded with the toy once. She learns that if she responds to the command at a random time, even if it doesn't look like you have reinforcement, she might get to play tug or fetch with you.

[Root Beer]

I just re-read your original post and I have another suggestion for you. You could play "find the cue".

 

Choose three behaviors and cue one of them. If your dog gets it right, reward. If not, show the treat to your dog and put it in your pocket.

 

Cue the next behavior. If your dog gets it right, reward. If not, show the treat and pocket it.

 

The point of the game is for the dog to learn that responding correctly earns the reward.

 

Once the dog knows the game, you can take the treats off of you and put them in a bowl (as I recommended above). You can mix and match behaviors and as the dog gets better at the game, use five or six in a session.

 

Doing this will help your dog learn to pay attention to what you are actually asking.

[Ooky]

I need suggestions for getting Jade to perform commands (tricks, anything to reinforce NILIF) on my terms. She will do everything (usually at once) you want her to do if you have a treat in your hand, but if not its nearly impossible. She'll look at me like "So? what do you want from me?" and fairly blatantly seem to ignore me. I'd like to get her to do tricks for her toys, but past sit and lie down she won't do anything else, I figure because she's so focused on the toy.

 

Hi Jaderbug,

 

I am way new at this and don't have any advice, but a question. Is this a new development? Have you done all your trick performing with treats in hand up until now, or did you always do it and she just recently stopped paying attention to you during non-treated commands? Odin is a few months younger than Jade, so I'm just trying to get an idea how they change, and how my training challenges will change, as he gets older.

 

I have always done the initial training and a lot of reinforcing/polishing with treats and clicker, but ask for commands for other rewards and no clicker probably more often. I consider everything from toys to praise to going through a door or crossing the street a reward. People say I'll probably have to retrain everything after he gets to be a bonkers adolescent, though - has this been your experience?

[JaderBug]

I am way new at this and don't have any advice, but a question. Is this a new development? Have you done all your trick performing with treats in hand up until now, or did you always do it and she just recently stopped paying attention to you during non-treated commands? Odin is a few months younger than Jade, so I'm just trying to get an idea how they change, and how my training challenges will change, as he gets older.

 

I taught her the actions with treats, and only rewarded when she actually performed it or tried really hard (when learning). She hasn't ever gotten a treat after every command, I'll usually go through a couple and THEN treat. She has somewhat recently started ignoring me, and I'm hoping it's just a teen phase that she's going through. We don't use a clicker (the noise really bothers her) and as well as she's done without one so far I don't plan on incorporating one into her training.

 

She seems to have a fall-back trick that she always does, her 'uff da' trick (cover your nose) whenever she doesn't feel like doing something else (bow, play dead, stand up, etc.) It was kind of cute at first (it didn't get rewarded because it was the incorrect response) but now it's just annoying when she tries to play dumb with 'uff da.'

[Root Beer]

I'm hoping it's just a teen phase that she's going through.

 

Dean went through something like this in his "teen phase". I don't view situations like this as the dog "ignoring" me or "blowing me off", but as lack of true understanding of my criteria on the part of the dog.

 

In the adolescent stage, the dog's brain is developing a mile a minute and I take this into account when I am training a "teenage" dog. When Dean started to get really scattered, I scaled back on my training. I spent more time playing with him and kept training sessoins very short and simple. I went from working on several behaviors in a training session to just one thing and I would make sure to end quickly.

 

That paid off. He hit a stage where it all came back together for him mentally and I was able to go back to doing a few things per training session and I could quickly up my criteria.

 

My training style is to help my dog be successful no matter what it takes. If that means luring longer than "they" say one should, I do it. If it means breaking things down into tiny pieces, that's what I do. It always pays off in the long run.

 

In a case like you describe, I would choose one behavior per session, break it down into tiny pieces, and reward a lot for success. I would fade food very gradually and make it fun. Then I would play games like Find the Cue.

[Lenajo]

If your dog doesn't like the sound of the clicker you can wrap it in something to muffle it. Don't click right by her head when you load it - try being at least 10 feet away. You can still toss the treat promptly.

 

I used an I-click (the button clickers) because they are softer and less disruptive when training in a group or public class.

 

Fading the treats in favor of the clicker? Maybe I am misreading your post, but the clicker is a conditioned reinforcer that always means a treat is coming, whether it's in the form of a treat or a game or a release to a "life reward" of some sort. You never click and don't reward.

 

That's actually old school. once the dog is loaded correctly (which Jade isn't and that should be first) and driving to the sound of the click you can do several clicks and then jackpot when the behavior is perfect. I worked with Alex... (oh heck it's unpronoucable and unspellable, from Slovenia I think, the world freestyle champ guy - remember the "Chaplin" routine on YouTube?) with freestyle and he even uses a single click as (right, go on!) and a double click as jackpot. Kay Laurance also does something similar with multiple clicks then reward.

[Lenajo]

The fall back behavior is really annoying to me too. Mostly because it means I don't have that behavior reliable on a cue, or it wouldn't be showing up without the cue.

 

Finish "uff da" off completely and make sure she understands that behavior is only welcome on cue. you can also play 100 things and a box - reward her for all behavior other than that one at first, then only for *new* behaviors. Boy can they get creative then LOL

 

 

I taught her the actions with treats, and only rewarded when she actually performed it or tried really hard (when learning). She hasn't ever gotten a treat after every command, I'll usually go through a couple and THEN treat. She has somewhat recently started ignoring me, and I'm hoping it's just a teen phase that she's going through. We don't use a clicker (the noise really bothers her) and as well as she's done without one so far I don't plan on incorporating one into her training.

 

She seems to have a fall-back trick that she always does, her 'uff da' trick (cover your nose) whenever she doesn't feel like doing something else (bow, play dead, stand up, etc.) It was kind of cute at first (it didn't get rewarded because it was the incorrect response) but now it's just annoying when she tries to play dumb with 'uff da.'

[Oz Girls]

Hi Jaderbug, there is some great advice in the previous posts. I'll just add that time may also be your friend.

 

I have one girl like your Jade that seemed to be unable to do anything other than 'sit' or 'down' when a toy was in sight (and our girl LOVES her toys). Well only this morning, on command she performed about 8 different tricks correctly, one after each other for her toy. This is the first time she has done more than 'sit' or 'down'. She is now 2 years and 4 months old.

 

We have not be actively trying to train this with her, but every now and again we would test how she was going, so you might find it happens quicker.

 

I actually thought we might never reach this milestone with Zoe so I was really excited. This dog has really taught me about patience - it took her until she was 18 months old before she was really interested in food and treats and boy did she then start loving training.

 

My advice don't give up, some things just take longer than you expect.