Angie H Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 We had our 2nd official lesson last night and Binx (my 7 month rescue pup) did really well! He was hesitating a bit when he was bringing the sheep in as if he is finding his balance now, and he was changing directions just from the trainer's body language. Things just "looked" more controlled than before. I was very proud of him; however, I am still not brave enough to go in with him. The instructor took me in the pen with one of her experienced dogs so that I could feel the balance and she could show me what she is looking for from Binx. I really liked Ben....I call him sexy Ben 'cause he's got the moves Overall it was just a really fun and encouraging lesson and I'm looking forward to the next one. Was anyone else a bit hesitant to hop in the pen when you were novice/novice? I am planning to get more hands on with the sheep at the farm and hopefully that will boost my confidence...or should you just jump in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hah! You are *so* hooked. My trainer handled Jack for probably the first, I don't know, 6-7 lessons. I can't remember exactly how many, but until I was comfortable enough to go in and give it a try. She still works him some now, too, which is fine, except it shows me how much better he works with her than me. But, she knows what she's doing! Sounds like Binx is doing very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Jump in! I waited almost a yr before handling my own dogs for a few lessons. Then, after having my 4 sheep for over 2 yrs I finally let my girl bring them to the round pen and we worked on the trainer's suggestions. She is a BC person but trains all breeds. My one girl is great; the newest convert is doing well although we are working through some issues; and my boy is hung ho all the time. Quite different among the 3 of them but I'm learning that sheep certainly aren't dumb. I do need more control as one ewe did hurt her eye on a wire in the round pen so we will take some time off for her to heal. Anyway, don't wait as long as we did. Do get the training you need and enter a trial when she says you are ready. You will learn so much. I timed at certain events for over a year and learned so much from the experiences. Narita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie H Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hah! You are *so* hooked. Yeah...Becca told me I was treading in dangerous (addictive) waters when I began researching the breed on a different forum about a year ago...before I was ever owned by a BC, much less a working BC - so I was forewarned One of my hesitations about going in the pen right now is that I'm afraid I will not read things correctly and then correct inappropriately and confuse my dog...I guess that comes with more exposure/experience. I'm sure that's why Nancy took me in with her dog - so I could begin to see what the "right way" looks and feels like. So, did you "get it" after 6 or 7 lessons? Were you training your own dog (under trainer's supervision) at that point? I'm wondering how long before I will be able to take my dog out to train on my own in addition to our weekly lesson. Guess it depends on the handler and the dog, huh? It's just very frustrating...this crawling stuff (as in must crawl before you walk) Grasshopper needs patience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordermix Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Get your body in there At first, I was not sure about getting in the pen so Wrigley had half her lesson with the instructor, and I had the other half of the lesson, with a seasoned dog. After about two weeks, I started working with Wrigley for the entire lesson and it was much easier for me to work with MY dog (even though I didn't know what was going on)! We are so hooked and Wrigley (a rescue) has flourished as an obedient dog as well as a sports dog. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 With me I'm always worried about messing my girl up but that is part of learning. It is so much fun and addictive as others have said. Just do it; you will be fine. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 So, did you "get it" after 6 or 7 lessons? Were you training your own dog (under trainer's supervision) at that point? I'm wondering how long before I will be able to take my dog out to train on my own in addition to our weekly lesson. Guess it depends on the handler and the dog, huh? Oh, no, I didn't "get it" after 6 or 7 lessons. Honestly, I still don't completely "get it" yet, and I've been in there for quite a few lessons, now. This working dog stuff is much more complicated than any other thing I've tried. Don't get me wrong, I love it. I can't wait to feel like I actually have a clue out there, though. You're right, it is crawling, and it does take patience. Of course if you have the chance to get out more often than we do, obviously you'll progress faster. And if you have a more talented dog, you'll move along faster, too. I'm working with a mix, so we are limited to just how far/fast we'll go. So yes, it does depend on the dog and the handler, how soon you could be working your own dog. Brief interlude to brag, though. Our trainer told Jack yesterday that she was "really proud" of him, what a great job he's doing and how far he's come. Stuff like that helps, especially when I was a mess out there yesterday. Back to your question...I guess, yes, I am training my own dog, under the constant, careful supervision of my trainer. If I'm out there and things go south (like yesterday), she's there to come bail me out. As with all novices, my timing sucks. I can't see fast enough (and therefore react fast enough) when Jack is about to be wrong, so my corrections are too late or not at all. It doesn't take much from there for things to go downhill fast. You mentioned working your dog alone, in addition to your weekly lessons...I think that is something that only your trainer will be able to answer. She'll know when you're ready. Me, I wouldn't be comfortable doing that at this stage, there's just too many chances for Jack to learn bad habits without our trainer there to help me. Good luck and keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie H Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Brief interlude to brag, though. Our trainer told Jack yesterday that she was "really proud" of him, what a great job he's doing and how far he's come. Stuff like that helps, especially when I was a mess out there yesterday. That's awesome! Yes, it does go a long way when you get a compliment from someone at that level. When our trainer just said "He did really well today" I was glowing like a proud mama (of course it had NOTHING to do with me or anything I had done!) You mentioned working your dog alone, in addition to your weekly lessons...I think that is something that only your trainer will be able to answer. She'll know when you're ready. Me, I wouldn't be comfortable doing that at this stage, there's just too many chances for Jack to learn bad habits without our trainer there to help me. Yeah, it will be up to our trainer. I am very fortunate that I do have access to sheep and also a friend who is willing to work Binx for me and to let me watch her when she is working young dogs in the pen. She is still a novice herself, but far enough ahead of me that I can learn plenty from her! She takes lessons at the same place I do and she always watches to see what our trainer thinks Binx should be working on so that she can help me with him an extra day through the week. Another experienced person told me to be careful that I don't burn him out because he is still so young. She has seen dogs turn on young like that and then lose interest from being over-pressured. He will only be 8 months old on Friday, so I am trying not to put too much on him yet (but I'm excited and want to move forward!!) Thanks for the replies and the encouragement - and keep us posted on Jack's progress too - I think that's awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I didn't get it for eight years! And then, I still can't really say I get it. Things still feel pretty random to me many times. One thing, don't be afraid to try stuff. That was my big downfall. The only way you can progress is by working out the feel of it - I go so slow because I don't go by "feel" ever - I have to work it out in my head what it's supposed be like and that doesn't really work when you are working livestock. So I'd stand out there and be paralyzed by the "what ifs" and it's really just trial and error. Go Binx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie H Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 and be paralyzed by the "what ifs". OMG - that is so me! I analyze things too much and am not a real impulse decision person...unless of course it's shopping or bringing home ANOTHER foster dog So, maybe I should really spend some time hanging out with the sheep without my dog, huh? It just doesn't FEEL like I'm learning anything when I go out there... I mean, I do "get" that if you put pressure on the left, they move to the right, and I have pretended to be the dog in that if one goes astray, I have to widen my path to collect it and still keep the flock together, etc. But apparently there is MUCH more to it, because even the book I'm reading (Julie Simpson's The Natural Way) talks about how much there is to learn about the sheep and that no matter how well you know your dog or how well he is "trained", you will never get very far if you don't understand the sheep. So what else can I do with sheep to learn more about them and how they think? (besides move them around without the dog) What am I looking for exactly? I know...such a rookie (should that be a new topic btw?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 So what else can I do with sheep to learn more about them and how they think? (besides move them around without the dog) What am I looking for exactly? Watch experienced handlers running experienced dogs, but pay close attention to how the sheep are reacting to the dog and how the dog is influencing the sheep. Notice, say, during a drive away toward a set of panels, when the sheep's heads move in one direction, when and where the dog moves to bring them back on line. How far away is the dog? How quick is he moving? Do the sheep seem to "trust" the dog or do they seem to be afraid of him? Try to see the communication between the sheep and the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie H Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Watch experienced handlers running experienced dogs, but pay close attention to how the sheep are reacting to the dog and how the dog is influencing the sheep. Notice, say, during a drive away toward a set of panels, when the sheep's heads move in one direction, when and where the dog moves to bring them back on line. How far away is the dog? How quick is he moving? Do the sheep seem to "trust" the dog or do they seem to be afraid of him? Try to see the communication between the sheep and the dog. Thanks Laura, Sounds like I need to go watch some trials...I know of a couple that I am attending nearby this fall, but I'm feeling antsy and want to learn all I can NOW (did I mention I can OCD on some things) Thanks again for the insight and suggestions...I will surely be looking for these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 How do you like the book? I'm reading Top Trainers Talk About Starting a Sheepdog. Julie is interviewed in it. I'm like to get her book too. You can volunteer at trials and learn so much. We have Aussies and go often to time and observe. I like to sit by the judge and hear his/her comments. One judge even took the time to draw up a diagram of penning to his audience. Very interesting. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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