Promote Your BC

[Shetlander]

As much as I understand the problem, honestly I can see how people would not like to see them chased off. They are a beautiful bird. Gotta love nature.

 

Nature is fine up to a point. I lived next to a small lake for 4 years during which I learned to really dislike geese. The only thing I found them good for was a watchdog function. No one drove up without them announcing a visitor. Otherwise, I often came home to find my sidewalks and grass strafed with their messes. They didn't roam in gaggles so much as in gangs and would swarm any car whose driver was unwise enough to come to a stop when they moved in front of the car, demanding handouts.

 

When I adopted a 9 month old Lhasa, his first assigned duty was "Get the geese!" This was over 20 years ago before I ever heard of goose dogs. It was a job he took to with great gusto and the arrangement worked out great. The geese quickly gave my property a wide berth and whenever I stepped outside with or without my feisty little dog, they'd let out an alarm

 

Now, ducks were fine. They kept more to themselves and were rather sweet. At least the ones by me were.

[kelpiegirl]

They like to rip out grass by the roots- which causes tons of $$ damage to courses. They eat all sorts of vegetation, but I don't believe bugs. I have never had anyone say anything negative about our work- because the geese are not hurt, the courses are cleaner, and they (the geese) are not killed. Regarding the training, I believe this is all over the board. I did goose control work before I worked sheep. So, my requirements are: drop dead perfect recall/down major keenness to do the work, ignoring all other people. Basically just there for one job, and nothing else. With my youngest dog who has good instinct/training, she has carried over her knowledge to the geese, which is great, because if you have two dogs, that ups the pressure quite a bit- for instance you have geese in a pond, and have two dogs, and one person closing in, versus just one dog and one person- which leaves holes. I can't always send my dogs to the most strategic place, because of all the golfers. I don't believe there is much precision, other than when you send your dogs, after geese, don't send them so the geese fly into crowds of people

I like a dog to be able to figure things out- and both mine know that we aren't finished until every single goose is gone- I don't have to remind them. The alternative to dogs would be chemicals on the lawns, and killing. It isn't the odd group of 5-6 geese who are a problem, it's hundreds who come and stay all year.

 

Other than nasty poo, do they do anything else to the environment? Do they demolish benificial aquatic life? Eat much needed bugs? Dig? I know they can wreck a clean pond pretty quick.

As much as I understand the problem, honestly I can see how people would not like to see them chased off. They are a beautiful bird. Gotta love nature.

 

Ok, burn me at the stake if you need to, but I have a question. When you use a dog to move stock, it is usually to a specific area. When you are scarring geese away, how much precision do you need? Are you not just scarring them into flight? You talked about the young dog not being allowed to work yet, what could he do wrong? I am really just asking out of my own ignorance.

[kelpiegirl]

yeah, but bill, do you golf? do you know it's customary to lick the golf ball? EWWWWW - I never knew that. For me? I want those guys happy happy happy. They pay my freight.

 

 

They are not too much of a problem around me, but where they have started to habituate they become the dominant waterfowl and drive out ducks and other birds that nest and feed in our marshes. Personally, I could care less about poop on a golf course -- I think it's good for those guys to get dirty now and again.

[DTrain]

Someone mentioned controlled hunts. Fish & Wildlife folks have been issuing permits for years in certain situations. Geese are protected but not endangered. This year for the first time in a very long time Federal F&W folks have increased bag limits and the length of the season in an attempt to lower populations. However, this mostly has an effect on migrating goose populations and the vast majority of geese that are causing problems are a non-migrating urban sub-species of the Canada goose and this problem is a long way from being solved. Virtually everything that has been tried short of killing them has not worked. Relocation programs which seems to be the most popular method on this sub-species does not work. Geese imprint on the location they are hatched and if they are able they will return to that location for the rest of their lives. My job with the dogs in these cases becomes a matter of keeping the geese from their feeding areas. It is a sensitive subject. Many of my customers do not want to eliminate geese completely or be seen to cause any harm to geese. It is good public relations to be seen as environmentally friendly. I work with the dogs and consult with landscape folks to create situations where geese do not want to enter certain properties to feed. It is fine to have a flock of geese on a pond but many customers spend large sums of money repairing damage to parks and properties and this is where the conflict is. Golf courses which are mostly private property have their own public relations problems but generally are able to use more aggressive tactics. The use of dogs as a single approach to goose control is effective but when put together with re-design of natural habit that is not goose friendly the positive results greatly increase. Many of the courses I have worked with who have employed both methods have had fantastic success rates at eliminating resident geese and are no dealing with much reduced numbers and much reduced costs. Many landscaping tactics can also be used to discourage nesting. I am working with a golf course now in SW Ontario that had a huge population of resident geese. We have been able to reduce the numbers of geese on the course by about 80%. We will be working on next nesting season and our expectation is that we will all but eliminate resident geese by this time next year.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

You do need control on the dogs because there are many times that you need to place the dog here or there to convince the geese that you mean business. They learn very quickly, otherwise, how to get the dog's number. You're working with a dog that has a lot of drive, and you're working in public places, so a lot of times a stop and recall are the most important commands for the dog's safety.

 

Then you want more than just the natural "gather" and walk in because many times where you want to push the geese, is off balance to you (ie, you are standing at six o'clock on a very large body of water, and you want to "trap" the geese in a cove at nine o'clock). So the dog needs to understand off-balance flanks.

 

Finally, a dog that's really sensitive to pressure will get it wrong for a while at first on swimming waterfowl. So the dog has to trust you and respond to commands that "feel" wrong. I don't understand it yet, but for some reason at first "balance" isn't quite right on habituated birds. They draw in a dog that's not used to them. Truly wild birds are different, they do work "right". But truly wild birds aren't usually what you work.

[Debbie Meier]

I sent a goose dog home this spring that I retrained for a local contractor, when she arrived she had no handle, just a outrun followed by a flush, maybe a recall if she was not too excited. When she left the only thing she needing more work on was extending her drive lines and holding them on her own and a shed. I could manually hold the sheep on line by repositioning her with flanks at quite a far distance. I would not hesitate running her pro-novice. Her handler has reserved two of my female pups, he wants them trained to the same level and is willing to wait for them, he said that being able to reliably recall, stop and resposition via flanking has saved her life quite a few times, he has been able to direct her from a distance away from traffic and people. My ideal goose dog would be an open level dog, though most people can get away with a dog that does not have a shed or long drive lines, but those two extra abilities gives you the ability to handle relocation work when the geese are in molt and would be handy in other situations. I went out on jobs with this contractor, I would not want to try to work his accounts with any less then a good solid pro-novice dog, you can get a dog killed with a slip on recall or stop, let alone if the dog disobeys an off balance and the flank to balance ends up in traffic.

 

Deb

[DTrain]

Very good point Rebecca. I have often had trouble explaining that there is some training or is that re-training involved to produce a great goose dog. My dogs are stock dogs and of course they have learned their work very well and rely on balance heavily and so they should. When I first started working my dogs on geese and asked for them to work off balance I had many problems. My best trained stock dog did not want to work off balance and it took some time to get him to do so and quite frankly it had less to do with me than it did with him mostly figuring out for himself. He makes good choices and this is great because as you know I cannot always put myself at balance point. I do not often have the chance to work wild geese and there is a difference. When I do however I try to take the advantage of working from some distance and at least start my work on balance. Something else that is a problem and I expect it has something to do with geese taking to the air. Often when I ask for an out-run my best dog will cut in lessening my chance of positioning him. I expect he is doing some thinking for himself and since he has not been able to reach a balance point for a fetch without the geese flying away from him he is trying to work out a plan to get to the geese. I am not certain if he understands that his work is finished when the geese take to the air or if he thinks he has not completed his work.

[jrid]

I don't visit my parent's graves, but last year when my Father was buried you could not take a step without putting you shoe in goose shit at the cemetary. They obviously never have goose patrol out there.

[ErinKate]

Very interesting. I would love to see all of that in action. I had always looked fondly on the "V" formation and the beautiful honking, you guys have made me think a bit more about it! lol I will still love it, but now I have to think of you guys when I see it!

As a tree hugger, I admire your earth/animal friendly method. Thanks for providing a more natural solution.

[Tranquilis]

Very interesting. I would love to see all of that in action. I had always looked fondly on the "V" formation and the beautiful honking, you guys have made me think a bit more about it! lol

The ones you see making graceful skeins across the sky aren't the problem - It's the resident birds that set up camp and never leave. You're not going to see those birds winging across the sky in formation - the most I've *ever* seen them bother to do is to relocate across a park. Most often, though, they walk. No... they meander. I've been made late for work by traffic backed up behind a meandering gaggle that can't be bothered to hurry across the road, for instance. Ambulances nail one on the way into the nearby trauma center at least weekly, and these birds are big enough to cause actual damage - I've seen grilles pushed in, and smashed lights. Fortunately, as they're largely ground-bound, they don't mess with the life flight helos.

[DTrain]

One of the most beautiful sights I have ever seen is huge flocks of night flight geese fly over my house. You can hear them coming for miles, you can feel them going by, you can see there flourescent bum feathers in the dim light. Tranquilis is right, these are not the geese my guys control. It is the fat almost non-flight geese in parks that stay the whole year making a mess and wrecking green spaces. Think of my guys as fitness instructors ( what better fitness instructor than a BC ) giving the geese about the only exercise program they ever get.