When is a Border Collie an adult?

[Scottea]

Hi !

 

I was just curious as to when a spayed birch should start acting like an adult? My wee gal is coming up 33 months and while obedient 75% of the time that 25% of the time she acts like a timid/scared pup sure takes some getting used to. I know that till I got her as a pup she had been tormented and abused by young children and a man. Socializing her has taken a lot of time but she will act totally undisciplined at time. She has never shown any inclination to jump or people but will, from time to time, bark at strangers and back away from them. Is this normal and when should she out-grow it?

She is becoming a great service dog.

 

Any help/hints/hope more than welcome.

 

Peace

[Sue R]

I am not sure that any dog will necessarily "get over" abuse suffered as a pup, particularly since it was during the critical time when not only the body but the brain was growing and developing.

 

You have seen that you could work with her to minimize her fears but that certain triggers still are stronger than her training and socialization. It could be that certain people/strangers are too similar in some way to a person who tormented her. When that happens, I think that management is your key to handling her problems.

 

Avoiding situations that she can't handle is one management tool. Working to teach her even more to focus on you, using treats or toys if need be and activities to occupy and divert her mind, may allow her to be involved with something other than the source of her discomfort to the point that she no longer reacts outwardly to those stimuli.

 

With time, I would think that these issues will continue to become less and less of a problem as you work consistently and continuously to provide her with other things (watching your face, focusing on you, doing an activity) that will keep her mind busy and her fears not in control.

 

There are great people on this board who can give you much better and specific advice than I can as they have dealt with dogs with problems like yours. Very best wishes!

[Root Beer]

I was just curious as to when a spayed birch should start acting like an adult?

 

In some ways my almost-7-year old acts less like an "adult" than my 2-and-1/2 year old Border Collie! A lot of it depends, I think, on the dog.

 

That said, what you describe in the rest of your post doesn't sound like "non-adult" behavior, or something she will grow out of.

 

My wee gal is coming up 33 months and while obedient 75% of the time that 25% of the time she acts like a timid/scared pup sure takes some getting used to.

 

Fear/timidity isn't lack of obedience.

 

A fear response is a behavioral response to a chemical reaction in the brain that takes place involuntarily (outside of one's control) due to perception of a threat. It doesn't matter whether or not the "threat" is truly a "threat" or not. What causes the response is perceived as one.

 

If a dog cannot respond to cues or do what you want and is instead displaying fear, "obedience" is not an issue. You need to work on her response to those triggers first and foremost.

 

Socializing her has taken a lot of time but she will act totally undisciplined at time. She has never shown any inclination to jump or people but will, from time to time, bark at strangers and back away from them. Is this normal and when should she out-grow it?

 

What you are describing doesn't sound like lack of discipline but reactivity. Reactivity is normal in dogs when an emotional response of alarm or fear - or sometimes plain old over-excitement - is triggered. It is not something that most dogs grow out of, but it is something that can be changed through conditioning.

 

For a dog who is fearful and/or reactive as you describe, I recommend clicker training. I've found that over time the clicker is a very powerful communication tool to use with a dog who is fearful.

 

Once the dog understands the clicker (doesn't take long), you can begin the process of desensitization and counter conditioning. I could describe it if you want, but I can also recommend some good resources that you can purchase that would give you much more extensive information. The book Control Unleashed is excellent - it is what I would use as a starting point with any fearful/reactive dog that I were working with. There is a really good Yahoo group - shyk9's - where there is good info in their files and there are people who are very willing to help out with things like this.

[MaggieDog]

Kristine's post is spot on. I have a 9 year old I've worked with since I adopted her at 11 months and she still has moments when her behavior is similar to what you've described: she is very sensitive to fast moving children and certain people or dogs. I know that when I adopted her she was very undersocialized and that's what we've been working on. Most people would say she's "normal" when they meet her, but she will always have her quirks and stressors.

 

It took about 3 years of hard work to get my Maggie to the point that she could work as a therapy dog comfortably; I think you really need to consider your dog's needs when you consider if she's truly working dog material. Service dog work in public is not for a dog that stresses over a lot of things - the job requires a steady personality and a dog that handles new things in stride. Very few dogs are truly service dog material ime and it is cruel to force a dog into service that does not have the ability or desire to do the work in any situation she may encounter.

[Bo Peep]

Hi !

 

I was just curious as to when a spayed birch should start acting like an adult? My wee gal is coming up 33 months and while obedient 75% of the time that 25% of the time she acts like a timid/scared pup sure takes some getting used to. I know that till I got her as a pup she had been tormented and abused by young children and a man. Socializing her has taken a lot of time but she will act totally undisciplined at time. She has never shown any inclination to jump or people but will, from time to time, bark at strangers and back away from them. Is this normal and when should she out-grow it?

She is becoming a great service dog.

 

Any help/hints/hope more than welcome.

 

Peace

Part of a service dogs job, is when you take that dog into public is to be "invisible". I have taken Usher into restaurants and no one knew he was there until we left and this was with a large group of people. Barking and jumping is simply not allowed. What does she do to help you, if I might ask? To be a true SD, she must perform at least 3 tasks to help you. You will also need a note from your doctor and vest her. She also has to be obedient 100% of the time. A timid dog isn't a good candidate for a SD. A confident dog that is well mannered is a great one. I only wish you the best of luck in training her to be your SD.

[MaggieDog]

Dianne, vests and notes are not required by the ADA, nor is the "three tasks" idea; according to the ADA all a SD needs to do is "mitigate a disability", implying at least one trained task. It is illegal for people to ask for a drs. note regarding a SD. The IAADP does suggest identifying a SD or SDIT (service dog in training), and they suggest the three tasks idea as well and having a note may be helpful for access issues.

 

That said, Dianne is very correct when it comes to a SD's role in public and what is most suitable for the job.

[Scottea]

Hi!

 

Many thanks for all the helpful hints and the comments that have let me know my wee gal is not "a basket case". Her fear issues seem to only surface when we are walking along the sidewalk by the house for about a 5 house distance either direction and if a new mechanic starts to work on the car with her in it. We can do our 1.5 mile morning walk in peace as not many peoplel are out and about when we are (6:30a.m. is first walk for the day) but when we go out for our second walk two hours later there are people around her area - once we are about 6 houses either way from home she is fine: we average 9 miles a day walking, a 1 mile run (hey, I'm working on it but don't expect me in any marathon) and another 2 miles just playing around in the backyard (1/6 of an acre with lots of flat agility things for her as well as trees/shrubs/compost bins/vegetable garden for me). She is not overly skittish about new objects/sounds/places = sort of pauses as if to say, "Hey, I gotta process this." there is about a three minute wait while she looks around then it is that , "Okay, are you just going to stand around there all day? We got places to go, people to see. And remember you are taking me to the herb gardens up north as they allow dogs on leads there and it will smell nice." look.

 

There are several public and private gardens you can walk your dog in as long as they are on a leash and she really enjoys going to them.

 

In the small town (population is about 15,000) I live in she is fine with people as long as they do not try to pet her from over her head - growl, back away, and show of teeth is result: ditto when I take her to see my Dad in a home (he has dementia). I should say that I am training her to be a service dog for me around the house - and a few things out in public. For me, in the house, she will bring me the portable phone, bring me my water bottle, clear the floor (pick up her toys and put them away as well as anything else on the floor she can lift or move), call the neighbours (go onto the back deck and bark), bring in the newspaper, and bring me my lap rug. In public she will take my money bag into the office at the service station to pay for the gas, take/bring books that I am lending/borrowing to/from friends, and pick up my keys/wallet if I drop them. Because of my medical past (major spinal fusion in the 1950's, smashed right leg in the 1960's, and breast cancer in the 1990's with lymphodemia in the left arm) I wanted not only an intelligent and active dog to match my way of life but also one that I could train to help with things that might prove a problem in later life.

 

It will be interesting to see how she reacts to the clicker, am not expecting trouble as she has no problem with the whistle around the ewes when she is at a farm. Cattle are a whole diferent game. . .

 

Thanks again.

 

Peace