Explain how I'm another ignorant teenager, please...

[haleigh]

I have been taking Joy on a late night walk, in the hopes I wouldn't be disturbed by our new towns dogs. Everywhere there are dogs who aren't on leashes, who wander around, and just walk right up to you, not caring about thing in the world. This makes me afraid that some dog will come up to Joy and get in her face, and thats the last thing I need with her reactivity. So, I've taken to walking her at 11 pm, which isn't bad (for now) since I'm on summer break.

 

We're walking along minding are own business when this mean looking lab (haha, what a contradiction) comes rambling straight up to Joy, acting all mean. I cued Joy to down and watch, while I told the dog to get. Joy was handling it pretty well, but the dog could've been beaten with a brick before it understood what I was saying. Since it wasn't leaving, I had Joy heel and we walked sideways away from the dog. I could tell Joy was nervous and antsy...she was throwing calming signals left and right. The dog didn't get the signal. I kept trying to walk away with Joy, also looking for the owners. the dog kept following us, growling a little every few seconds.

 

I stopped for a second to see if I could check the tags, but when I stopped walking, Joy broke the heel and darted behind me. The lab went running after her barking and growling, hackles up, tail up and stiff. My girl doesn't like confrontation (we had other dogs who would've loved the challenge) so she rolled over. The lab pinned her down and was barking in her face. I was scared a fight was going to break loose so I started yelling and making a lot of noise to try and ward the dog off.

 

someone started yelling at me, and I turn around and see some tough looking old guy calling accusations at me and my dog! He said how his dog never caused problems, and how I was provoking his lab, and Joy deserved to be destroyed for making all that ruckus during the night. I'm an ignorant teenager who needs to learn a thing or two about dogs, and that them old sheep dogs are no good pieces of filth, and how I'm incompetent, and don't deserve one.

 

I did the right thing and was still respectful to him, even though he didn't deserve it. I tried explaining the situation calmly, and suggested (again...nicely) he keep his dog on leash. But he broke out with the threats that if he sees my dog off leash again he's calling animal control. Joy was NEVER off leash! I would never, in my right - or wrong - state of mind put my reactive, car chasing border collie off leash on a walk!

 

Joy handled it all ok, but I don't know what I did wrong. Are some people just crazy like that?

[berocca]

How horrible for you.

 

In my experience people are stupid. I used to do the same thing with Cody, walk him late at night, carry an umbrella to open up in the face of offleash dogs etc but people would still abuse me if he snapped at their dog. I ended up having to walk him with a muzzle on and people still brought their dogs right up to his face He was fear aggressive and wouldn't go out of his way to get a dog, he only ever snapped if a dog got in his face while he was on-lead and couldn't get away. So, for anything to have happened the other dog would have had to get pretty close to him.

 

It wasn't just the general public either, I had issues with people (including other trainers) bringing their dogs right up to his face while we were at training. Never mind that we were deliberately standing away from the group and he was wearing a muzzle

[afrancis]

I stopped for a second to see if I could check the tags, but when I stopped walking, Joy broke the heel and darted behind me. The lab went running after her barking and growling, hackles up, tail up and stiff. My girl doesn't like confrontation (we had other dogs who would've loved the challenge) so she rolled over. The lab pinned her down and was barking in her face. I was scared a fight was going to break loose so I started yelling and making a lot of noise to try and ward the dog off.

 

Haleigh, the only thing I would have done differently for Joy's safety would have been to leash her when the dog first approached AND kept walking away. Your responsibility was not to find this dog's owner, esp if it was showing signs of territorialism, but to get both yourself and Joy out of potential danger.

Of course, a lot of this is just hindsight seeing as what happened. Really good that Joy was not hurt, although its almost as bad when you're yelled at like that!

There will, unfortunately, always be crazy, rude, crass, insensitive people out there. Whatever the cause for their bad reactions, learnt or genetic, YOU did the right thing by being polite.

Congrats and good luck with Joy.

Ailsa

[Barb Scott]

Haleigh,

I used to walk very early in the morning (6 AM). No crabby old men (or anyone else) out then. Most everyone's either getting ready for work or still in bed! Also, do you have any neighborhood parks that allow dogs on leash (not dog parks)? Our city fines offleash dogs so people are pretty good about following the leash rules.

Barb S

[vanillalove]

That is horrible! Honestly, the main thing was probably because you are so young and he felt like he could yell at you and essentially get away with it.

 

Some people are very, very, (did I say very?) protective over their dog. You call them fat, they say it's all muscle, you say their dog is aggressive (or the owner is in the wrong) and they say this dog has never acted like this before. You could've whipped out some sort of evidence kit to show that he was wrong, and yet he would still be right, you know?

 

Joy sounds like she handled it exceptionally well so at least you know that her reactivity is becoming more controlled and she's learning how to deal with confrontation rather than try to make it go away, so be proud of your girl. Don't let the experience get to you, you're going to take a lot of shit for being so young and having the dog you do, just keep your head up. I feel so bad for you, and I would suggest some early morning walks (I know you're on your summer break, but you can take a nap after, haha ) instead.

[haleigh]

Thanks. I am pretty surprised with how Joy acted. It's a pretty proud moment, when you're usually difficult, thick head border actually *listens* lol.

 

I'll try taking her on morning walks. The parks around here either nonexistent or super small, not worthy visiting. Which is odd, considering we live in farm country now Well, not really farm country. Rural area with neighbors, I suppose.

 

we have that large backyard, and I can start exercising Joy more now that I got my neighbor yelling out the door when she's going to let her dogs out. Joy's one of the weird border collies who absolutely love her walks and find them mentally tiring. It's something I can't do without, unlike going in the backyard for play.

[JaderBug]

Are some people just crazy like that?

 

That would be a resounding yes. Sounds like you had a bad run-in with one, too! Also sounds like you handled it a lot better than I probably would have!

 

I had something like this happen a few weeks ago... I was taking Jade for a walk through the parking areas of campus, on-leash. All of a sudden out of nowhere an Aussie cam barreling towards Jade... his heckles were up a little bit at first, but he ended up being very friendly and they played and romped around little bit. His owner followed him over, who was on his cell phone. He seemed nice and wasn't concerned with his dog because he obviously wasn't aggressive, but it was annoying nonetheless- how should I have known that it wasn't aggressive??

[bc4ever]

Dogs off leash! One of my biggest complaints! Took Scooter for a walk last week. As we were preparing to get out of the car I noticed an elderly woman with a black lab, off leash of course, coming towards us. I kept staring at her and shaking my head, then finally reached for my phone and I acted like I was making a call, all the while looking at her. She put the leash on the dog when she saw me "talking" on the phone. She knew exactly what I was implying and until I picked up the phone, she stared back at me defiantly. Scooter gets a little skittish around some dogs but is getting better. Hang in there! Sounds like you're doing just fine. People are idiots. Saying that, you might be safer anyway taking your dog out in the early morning hours rather than at night.

[JohnLloydJones]

Joy handled it all ok, but I don't know what I did wrong. Are some people just crazy like that?

 

Senneca and I have been in lots of similar situations. Mostly with dogs that are not only off-leash, but without their owner. Folks around our way think it's OK to let their dogs out for their morning bathroom business and just leave the door ajar for them to come back in on their own. OK if you're on a big farm, perhaps, but not at all OK in the suburbs. At five in the morning, we rarely have problems with dogs that are together with people. The really ignorant and dumb dog owners don't get up that early, it seems.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Sorry to say, people are idiots. I feel horrible for you since older people who think they are right are going to throw accusations at you like that man did. Hopefully it doesn't happen again, but there are an aweful lot of people out there who think they know better than EVERYONE. I have had a similar thing happen recently. We came around a corner, face to face with another dog and a man. Daisy reacted very well at this point. The man says, "oh, nice doggie." I said, "she's not friendly." and tried to keep walking. Man continues to stand in middle of side walk and I am forced onto a busy street with on comming traffic. I make Daisy stay on the side walk because I would rather get hit than my dog getting hit. He then loosens his dogs leash and let's it come over to Daisy. Daisy does her little, "i'm irritated" snort/huff and the dog gets on the offensive and starts barking and growling, he then pulls back on the lead and makes his dog rear up and Daisy barks back. His response was "Oh, apparently she isn't friendly". Well, dude, I wouldn't have told you that in the first place if I was lying!!! Now, if he would have just kept walking, there would have been no confrontation. But, people just don't get it. On the other hand, there is a lady who uses the park by my house to play frisbee with her bc. I've told her once that my dog was not friendly. She seemed very sad about this, since why wouldn't two bc's want to play together, but ever since then, if we meet at an intersection, she sits her dog and lets me pass without having to worry about anything. And for that ONE person, I am very greatful!!!

Anyway, the progress you are making with Joy sounds good and hopefully this encounter did not set her back any!

[2 Devils]

You are not an idiot teenager. The only thing I have problems with was you being out alone...

 

You may want to start carrying a cell phone and some form of protection (mace, stick etc...). You are a teenage girl and whether you have a dog or not, someone with bad attentions could approach you anyways.

 

With regards to Joy she did a great job considering.

 

Unless I want my dogs to meet other dogs, if anyone lets their dogs come near mine - I will make it very clear that my dog will attack, period. My dogs won't but I make sure to make it clear they will. This keeps people and their dogs away from me. Also when walking, you need to make sure you walk with a confident manner. Many idiots are less prone to approach those with a confident air about them.

[twmoose82]

This is one of the things I hate the most about my neighborhood. I live in a densly populated area of Chicago where almost everyone has a dog. My Condo is a 6 flat and there are 4 of them that line a street and I would say that about half are dog owners. No matter when I take Moose out there are always other dogs around and many of them are not on a leash. I can usually keep Moose moving away from the other dogs but many times they run right up to them. I usually let them sniff and then move Moose along because Moose first move in playing is to nip the other dog to get things going. Then the other dog is running circles around him while he strangles himself on the leash. I wish people would understand that not all dogs need to greet each other every time out.

[Jack & Co.]

The only thing I have problems with was you being out alone...

 

You may want to start carrying a cell phone and some form of protection (mace, stick etc...). You are a teenage girl and whether you have a dog or not, someone with bad attentions could approach you anyways.

This alarmed me as well, especially if someone realizes that you venture out alone every night at the same time.

[Seelie Fey]

[i strongly suspect that the charming gentleman has had several complaints about Fido already and has been yelled at by his neighbors, etc. So, instead of managing his dog properly, he continues to do the same stupid thing and expects different results. When his dog had the confrontation with you dog, he was in your face because he knew he was in the wrong and was trying to bully you out of making an issue of it.

 

He's a jackass. You're a teenage girl. He decided you were fair game. Shake the dust of it from you feet and move on. But, please, don't walk your dog all by your lonesome at 11:00 pm.

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

Haleigh,

I won't say you're an ignorant teenager, but I will pile on about your being out alone. I also agree your best bet would be to leash up Joy and get going and not engage the man, older or not. Don't try to find the dog's person either.

 

I also want to offer that mornings can be just as iffy if you are alone in a public place. One summer long ago, I was walking four dogs in a doggy park-like place in the city where I lived, and was confronted by a man who had no issue with my dogs, and they weren't much help either. I got dragged into some bushes at knifepoint and raped, a tough thing to live with at 26, all independent and brave, and I think my being being niave about the protection a dog might provide made me feel fairly invincible and safe.

 

All's well that ends well, the guy raped 14 other women and is in prison for the rest of his life, and I have a different slant on the world. Not trying to scare you, but I never thought it would be me who was the "1 in 4". Be careful. My biggest concern that morning was finding my run-off dogs before they got creamed in the street.

[WyoBC]

I'm sorry you had to go through that. I know how scary it is when I dog is growling and you can't get away from it. I wouldn't want you going out that late anymore. People watch you and learn when you go out every night if you see them or not. It's scary, but the truth.

 

I hate dog owners that think their dog should be able to go anywhere they want, but yours can't even be on leash. If I called the police everytime I saw a dog off leash they would quit taking my calls! Normaly I just tell them they need to keep their darn dog on a leash. I once saw this guy walking 8 dogs. He only had the small dogs on leash and let his husky, lab, and shepard off leash. I got really mad when they wouldn't leave both of us alone. Black Jack is getting a LOT better around other dogs, but I hate dogs that won't leave you alone. So I told him to get his dogs away from me. He gave me a hate look and tried to call them. By this time he was a good 100 feet away from me. I know that every person on earth won't ever keep their dogs on a leash, but I hope that every person I holler at will do it next time. Or at least I hope so

[blackNwhite]

I did the right thing and was still respectful to him, even though he didn't deserve it.

Wow, you're a better person than I am! You were respectful despite the fact that the guy was a total jerk (and probably should be put down ). Good for you! Just remember, you can't fix everyone and you can't blame yourself for that!

[Laurena]

I think you handled yourself very well . I too was a little alarmed with you being out all alone . Gosh I don't even go out with my dogs (one being a large shepherd X) after daylight alone . It's just not safe .

[BC-Liz]

Haleigh,

I won't say you're an ignorant teenager, but I will pile on about your being out alone. I also agree your best bet would be to leash up Joy and get going and not engage the man, older or not. Don't try to find the dog's person either.

 

I also want to offer that mornings can be just as iffy if you are alone in a public place. One summer long ago, I was walking four dogs in a doggy park-like place in the city where I lived, and was confronted by a man who had no issue with my dogs, and they weren't much help either. I got dragged into some bushes at knifepoint and raped, a tough thing to live with at 26, all independent and brave, and I think my being being niave about the protection a dog might provide made me feel fairly invincible and safe.

 

All's well that ends well, the guy raped 14 other women and is in prison for the rest of his life, and I have a different slant on the world. Not trying to scare you, but I never thought it would be me who was the "1 in 4". Be careful. My biggest concern that morning was finding my run-off dogs before they got creamed in the street.

 

That's terrible! I've been considering teaching my dogs an attack command...this makes me want to even more.

 

Haleigh, you're a much better person than I am with a bad off leash dog. I would have been screaming right back at the guy. Next time just smack him (the guy ) with the leash...maybe he'll get the idea. Some people are just arrogant @$$holes. You could start carrying some "No Bite" dog defensive spray with you. That'll get the dogs away real quick.

[bc4ever]

You could start carrying some "No Bite" dog defensive spray with you. That'll get the dogs away real quick.

 

Where would I find "No Bite?" I've been looking for something to carry with me when I take Scooter out. Too many confrontations with neighbor dogs. Rotties on Flexileashes!

[Boon]

People watch you and learn when you go out every night if you see them or not. It's scary, but the truth.

 

 

A few years back I was moonlighting a bit, doing some PC updates and repairs out of my home. Many times I came across some pretty creepy and weird things on peoples PC’s, but nothing “alarming” There was however one I had to report to the police, this guy’s PC was full of video of women walking or jogging either with or without there dogs or walking with other women and he would be noting the routes they took, where they lived, when they went to bed etc… He even had a spreadsheet set up with times there husbands went to work, if they had kids, even there mail and trash pickup schedules.

 

I’m not trying to pile on Haliegh because it absolutely kills me a young women cant walk a dog at night. Just know there are wierdos out there so be smart and stay safe

 

I just had a scary scenario myself, a little different circumstance but scary none the less.

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=19946

[border_collie_crazy]

wow, im sorry you had to go through that! I cant say I havent had my share of idiots on walks though. I recall one case in which some guy let his dog run into the street to see my dogs.I had 3 dogs with me on a BIKE! this dog would not go away and there wasnt much I could do with 3 dogs attached to a bike and no help! I was very proud of Happy when I managed to get away without anyone freaking out about this strange dog posturing in their faces. when I managed to get away? I finally found the owner..he was LAUGHING. he thought his dog running loose in the middle of the street posturing over potentially aggressive dogs was hilarious.

[IronHorse]

This would be handy to carry to deal with aggressive dogs that get to close to your space,

http://www.securitysaint.com/mace-pepper-s...g-repeller.html

 

As for the Idiot's and dangerous people that plague our world well I am an advocate of self protection, be it in the form of martial arts or my preference

[BC-Liz]

Where would I find "No Bite?" I've been looking for something to carry with me when I take Scooter out. Too many confrontations with neighbor dogs. Rotties on Flexileashes!

 

 

The bike shop my b/f works at sells it, so maybe look at someplace like REI or something like that. Google always works too. Looks like IronHorse found a similar product too.

[DTrain]

I have been hearing this sort of story more and more lately. Encounters with bad dogs is bad enough but to encounter bad people is far more dangerous. I have had several encounters this year but I am a very aggressive person in situations like this and people tend to back away from me. First, please do not go out at night with your dog. Try to find a better time and place to walk and play with your dog. Please do not develop a routine that some nut can catch on to. I am something of an expert on bears and how to defend yourself in an encounter. I have taken training to be able to read situations and remain calm and take the appropriate action. Here is what I do when out with my dogs. I am very seldom out alone with them except in a controlled situation and I almost never have them off leash. Each of my dogs has a stop command and one of my dogs has a bite command. I always carry bear spray in a small container that I can slip into my pocket. I sometimes carry a bear banger. It scares my dogs but it also will scare the majority of other dogs. I always walk with a stick. I have made several out of bamboo. I always carry a spare leash that I can use as a loop around a dog. Also, my wife carries a screamer. This is a small device you can clip on your belt. When in danger you can pull a release pin and the device makes a very loud screaming noise. I sometimes carry a small hand held laser which most animals find very scary. We always carry a cell phone with police and fire numbers in memory. The phone also has a camera in the event a shot of a situation needs to be taken. When playing with the dogs off leash my wife and I are always together and one of us keeps a close watch to see if a dog or a person is approaching us. We never take the dogs out after dark unless it is on our own property. We would like to but it is very rare that we would help a stray dog or attempt to find an owner. If approached by an aggressive dog I would not hesitate to defend myself my wife and my dogs. We are almost always with three dogs so other dogs and certainly people tend to stay away from us. If approached by an aggressive person I sometimes respond very aggressively depending on the situation but most of the time I just walk away making sure I am not being followed. Most people and dogs that have an out of control aggression have something in their background that made them this way. It is often the case that an angry response to them will back them off. It is a shame that we need to go to these lengths and negative encounters happen very rarely but I feel better knowing that I can at least make an attempt at defending. Please be careful and take precautions.