I need some input.

[SincereArtisan]

Ido graduated her Allstars 1 agility course, where she and I learned the beginners basics involving the A frame, tunnels, chute, teeter, jumps, weave poles and the walks. She took to every one naturally, though she still displays some hesitation at the teeter--but she is showing great signs at being able to overcome this in no time!

 

The next course is 4 weeks long. Its basically going to have them set up the equipment as they would run a dog through it, and let the dogs/owners run it, all the while correcting them and adding tips and suggestions here and there. Its a $65 course.

 

I'm torn between doing this, and paying a membership at the dog gym where this is, and training Ido further myself. The membership is $30 a month, lets you come whenever--24hrs a day, as long as it doesn't interfere with training schedules--and use their equipment. I'm pretty sure I could glean enough tips and suggestions from books and the internet. I've trained my dogs to sit, down, stay, drop on recall, wait, rollover, spin around, shake, play dead, and a handful of other useful tricks since day one. But, we're JUST getting into this. Am I going to have to prove I've passed agility classes to enter into competitions? How useful is it working with the instructor?

 

My instructor was great and all--apart from constantly trying to give Ido cheese, Oi!--but...well, not as detailed as I suppose I would have liked. And class was SHORT. I mean, we dropped everything the moment our hour was up, which wasn't something I felt I paid $85 for. (It was a 6wk course.) I like the lady, she had great methods, but hear me out fellow BC-lovers: She owns westies. She would OBSESS over the terriers. Ido's natural ability got us hardly any criticism the entire 6wks, but I feel thats what we needed. Any one else see where I'm coming from???

 

She will be the instructor for the next 4wk course. I could look for another trainer at a different location, but all those I have found so far require you pass THEIR 'beginners course'....which I feel would be money wasted...

 

Should I suck it up and go for a better trainer, or continue on my own?

[MaggieDog]

I'd look for another instructor personally.

 

While we learned the obstacles in Ziva's 6 week beginner course, the next 6 weeks (advanced beginners) were spent teaching more in depth handling skills, and we're just now getting into sequences in week 13 of classes (advanced beginners 2).

 

From your descriptions it doesn't sound like working on your own *or* using the same instructor are going to give you the foundation skills you *have* to have for competition. If you just want to do this for fun, then either way would work, but if you're serious about competing you need an instructor who can help you with handling and sequencing at a minimum, not to mention the finer details involved in teaching safe, reliable contacts, distance work, etc.

 

I tried to do a lot on my own with Maggie after our obstacle intro class and managed to destroy her motivation and thus create a sloooow dog. She's improved over some classes, but I'm never going to have a fast dog. In addition I never learned the foundation handling skills I needed so I made everything more difficult on the field w/o realizing it. Ziva's my second agility dog and I'm finally able to get the instruction I wish I'd had when I was working Maggie in the beginning - it makes all the difference!

[vanillalove]

Maybe you can get the best of both worlds. Could you maybe find a new trainer and he or she could come with you to the doggy gym sometimes and help you on your handling? I really think the dog gym sounds like a great resource and I think many people wish that they could have something like that near them! So I would probably jump at the opportunity. Though, I think it is helpful to have a trainer to fix the mistakes you didn't know you were making you know? If there was a class or trainer at the gym that is available, this would help you bridge the gap between the gym and a class.

 

Whatever the choice is, good luck!

[Root Beer]

I'd find another trainer if you aren't happy with the one you have.

 

You might contact some of the others personally and ask if you could have your dog assessed in lieu of the basic class. One or more of them might be willing to do so.

[Pat W.]

If you are not happy with your instuctor definately look for another trainer, also if you have graduated from a beginners class let your prospective new instuctor know, ask if you can do a private to show Ido and your progress and perhaps they will jump you to the next class. If not doing a second round of beginners isnt all bad, it can help brush up on little sticking points or things you wanted to work on anyway.

[Pippin's person]

Like Erin said, it depends a lot on your goals. There is quite a bit to the human side of agility that is pretty useful to learn from an instructor. One thing that can be a danger in doing the training yourself is that you might end up doing things that you think make sense or that you read about but that are wrong for you and Ido as a team. If it were me, I'd first really decide what I want to do in agility (is it ultimately to be competitive in the upper-levels at AKC/USDAA trials? Find ways to increase your bond with Ido? Have something fun to do but with low stress and low pressure?) and then make my decisions from there.

 

One of the potential problems with classes is that you end up sequencing and running courses WAY before you or the dog have the fundamentals down. At least that's what happened to me--I took a lot of classes with different dogs, but I never learned some basics like thinking about where my feet are pointing, where my eyes are looking, queueing the dog to extend rather than collect, etc.

 

I've actually found doing private lessons on a less frequent basis has done a lot more for increasing my understanding of what's supposed to be happening. My primary goal for agility is to increase my communication skills with my dogs. I don't have all that much interest in competing per se, but I do love acquiring the skills and working as a team with my dog.

 

I don't think you have to have taken any particular set of classes to compete

[dogsofmenace]

As I remember, you live in Louisville like myself. I don't really want to promote any training centers, but if you want my suggestion on where to train around here I'll PM you or something. (I'm going to take a guess here; you're at Superdogs, right?)

 

I personally would recommend continuing taking a class. I learn a lot in my class, but the part I enjoy the most is the people. I have made so many friends by taking classes. Every time I go I just have a TON of fun. Plus, since I'm new to trailing, it helps to know a lot of the people when I go to trials. Its not as overwhelming. My class, while it officially lasts an hour, usually lasts a lot longer than that. We finish when we're finished and not when the hour is up.

 

If you don't like the trainer or the class, look for another one. In my opinion its worth it. The thing I hate the most is when a trainer is biased on one breed of dog. I'm sure Ido is not reaching her full potential in your class, while the terriers are excelling!

 

All that being said, there are a lot of people who have never taken a class in their life and are doing great. If you think you could do it and thats the route you want to take, then go for it! Its all about whats right for you and your dog. But the downside to that is, if you do make a mistake, there is no one there to help you out!

[3dogslater]

There is no requirement to take any classes before you step in the ring to compete. Certain organizations have restrictions like CKC and AKC where your dog has to be a registered purebred or you go through a registration process with that org. to have your dog accepted as a spayed/neutered purebred for competition.

 

Other orgs like AAC, NADAC, USDAA, DOCNA, CPE require that your dog is a certain age before you compete, and registration is open to all dogs.

 

I don't know anybody who would do it but you could theoretically enter a competition without having ever trained your dog.

 

As for whether you should train by yourself or with an instructor, I'd much rather train with an instructor.

http://www.pawsitivesteps.ca/why.htm

 

If you have a good instructor you will get feedback that helps you improve as a team. The first set of classes is difficult. As an instructor I want to keep it fun and enjoyable without bogging novice people down with criteria and performance standards. An instructor will have a plan for teaching skills, keep you focused, spot things you can't when you are running your dog, help you troubleshoot, act as a motivator and a critic, and keep you from overworking your dog.

 

That said, I trained my youngest dog on my own much of the time. Very few instructors teach the way I want to be taught and teach my own classes. I do lots of foundation work...as an example, in your first set of classes you don't get to do any contact obstacles. Jump, table, tunnel, tire, wobble board, plank work, target training, weave foundations, flatwork...that's enough to easily fill three months of classes.

 

The most common mistake I see in agility is instructors who rush the dogs into sequencing obstacles so that the owners' can feel like they are going "real" agility. I made that mistake with my first dogs (trained two at the same time). They didn't truly understand what I was asking them and although we flew through Starters/Advanced, we stalled out once the courses got tougher in Advanced/Masters.

 

Around here, classes are $80-120 for six weeks and the classes are one hour long. At the end of the hour we pack up and leave because there is another class starting. As an intructor I pay to rent the facility I teach at, for equipment and for insurance. I pay to attend seminars and purchase books and DVDs to improve as an instructor. In addition to the hours I teach, I pay for set up and clean up time at the barn, as well the hours of planning and organizing and course design. I don't actually make all that much money but I teach because I love it.

 

The doggy gym sounds like a fabulous resource once you know more about agility, or find an instructor who would work with you. We pay $20-$50 per hour to rent training space, so $30 per month is a steal.

 

As somebody brand new to agility, you probably didn't learn enough in a two week class that covered every obstacle to make another beginner class redundant. I'd start again with a good instructor who's methods you like and who's teaching style works for you. You'll never regret a good foundation!

[SincereArtisan]

Yes, I was training at SuperDogs.

 

It was a 6 wk course, and we learned one obstacle each hour-lesson, and towards the end of class we would sequence a few. However, I would have liked to do more one-on-one work with the instructor and the teeter, as Ido showed hesitation there. Contacts were only briefly mentioned, and as long as a dog didn't blatantly miss them, no tips advice was really given.

 

I felt the obstacle-a-lesson was a bit slow. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to over-push or exert my dog. Its not that I feel I should get the entire foundation for Ido's future as an agility star in that one course. Other things frustrated me, too. There was nothing in the classes geared towards encouraging the drive of the dog. Every dog either walked or jogged through what they were doing. Ido would get bored, and her focus would completely fade.

 

We ventured out to another kennel tonight who offers a variety of training, agility included. The trainer was a lot more encouraging. She evaluated Ido in the beginning, and verified she was definitely ahead enough to be in the class. She was very good at spotting what owner/dog was doing wrong, and how to remedy it. She was big on getting the dog to go-go-GO, to do the obstacle and be pumped to do something else...Ido did GREAT, it was entirely her pace, she focused so much better, and she was incredibly attuned to body language of who ever was working with her, which was new because she usually will only work for me...I guess that goes to show how much she enjoyed it. The trainer offered a ton of criticism, and I walked away feeling I learned a LOT.

 

The only thing that made me uneasy, was there was an 8mo Aussie in the class being asked to do 12'' jumps. The owners were struggling with getting the puppy to focus, and though the trainer was doing a great job at getting the dog's attention and getting what they asked out of him, it just didn't seem right she was already putting a puppy on 12'' jumps. Granted, the dog jumped maybe a total of 12 times. 12 jumps a week, I dunno if thats considered ok. I don't know if they might have discussed this earlier.

 

I really want to find the right trainer. I understand what you're saying about the trainer running you through obstacles so you can feel you're doing it right. I don't want to be in those shoes, and yes our trainer tonight had us sequencing several obstacles tonight, 'Dancing with your dog,' she called it. OTOH, she would stop us, critique us, show us what we were doing wrong and how to do it right, praise us, etc.... I like the trainer. What I may do, is keep up with these courses, but rent the facilities at SuperDogs to work on what we have learned in detail, further our knowledge of pros and cons via the internet, books, and hopefully forums like this.....

 

So, does this sound like a trainer I can stay with? Or is the Aussie and the sequencing a big red flag I should be balking at??

[Pat W.]

With the aussie the 12inch jump should be lower than his/her elbow, and 12 times isnt all that much but I would express my concern to the trainer and see what her reasoning is. I just started jumping my 21 mo at his trialing height but that is only because he is just learning how to jump properly. Also sequencing isnt that bad, this will be your 3rd session of training is that correct? At this point you and Ido should be able to start putting together small sequences of 3-5 obsticles. Were you working at full height on contacts or still lowered? Here is what Whim and I have been through: 1 session puppy kindergarten very basic foundation, 1 session beginners - learning equipment and basic foundation, currently 1 session foundations I - working short sequences, learning front and rear crosses, working some full height contacts (all but teeter), starting distance work. If you walked away saying "I learned something tonight" and you felt good about the instructor, your performance as well as Ido's then I would say stay here. Dont be afraid to voice concerns, ask questions when you have them. If you are going to do some training on your own then see if a friend would be willing to come with you. Its a great benefit to have eyes on the ground to see what you're doing or not doing. It's very hard to do it by yourself.

[SincereArtisan]

With the aussie the 12inch jump should be lower than his/her elbow, and 12 times isnt all that much but I would express my concern to the trainer and see what her reasoning is. I just started jumping my 21 mo at his trialing height but that is only because he is just learning how to jump properly. Also sequencing isnt that bad, this will be your 3rd session of training is that correct? At this point you and Ido should be able to start putting together small sequences of 3-5 obsticles. Were you working at full height on contacts or still lowered? Here is what Whim and I have been through: 1 session puppy kindergarten very basic foundation, 1 session beginners - learning equipment and basic foundation, currently 1 session foundations I - working short sequences, learning front and rear crosses, working some full height contacts (all but teeter), starting distance work. If you walked away saying "I learned something tonight" and you felt good about the instructor, your performance as well as Ido's then I would say stay here. Dont be afraid to voice concerns, ask questions when you have them. If you are going to do some training on your own then see if a friend would be willing to come with you. Its a great benefit to have eyes on the ground to see what you're doing or not doing. It's very hard to do it by yourself.

 

Now that I think about it, yes the 12'' jump was lower than the pup's elbows. He was a big dog, and I would have never known he was 8mo if the owners had not mentioned it. I feel better, now.

 

I definitely like the trainer. If I can find some one to go with me to the gym, that would be better...maybe some one else who wants to do agility, that would be swell.

[dogsofmenace]

Sounds like a good trainer to me! If you like her, stick with her. That's the most important factor and frankly the only one I care about! Don't care how many titles or 1st places they have if I'm not comfortable with what they are doing. Personally I would be a little worried about the Aussie; not really because of the jump height, but more of the age of the dog. I don't know if a dog that young has the mental capacity to be in an agility class like that. But who knows?

 

Having a place like SuperDogs is a great concept because you pretty much get to work on whatever you want there and at a time that is convenient for you. Its pretty nice... (Although I will say I'm not a fan of the place simply because I know they dislike mixed breeds and junior handlers; a lesson I found out the hard way when I--a junior handler--showed up with my mixed breed. And to think I wanted to give them my money.... XD)