Afraid of the Clicker

[JaderBug]

I tried introducing the clicker to Jade yesterday and she seems to be afraid of it. When I got it out, I let her sniff it, and when I started clicking it, I tried to get it charged by clicking as she took the treat and then click then treat. She was nervous at first, then alright for a little bit, then she'd just get apprehensive about it again, step backwards and stare at me with a worried look with a concerned whine and I couldn't get her to come to me or any other command. I was very enthusiastic, treating wildly, and trying to make it fun, but to no avail. I even wrapped the clicker in a dish towel so it wouldn't make such a harsh noise. I have one of Karen Pryor's books, though I haven't read all of it yet (I suppose that might help!)

 

What can I do to teach Jade that the clicker is a good thing? Is there any reason for me to start using it now since she's gone through the rest of her training without one? Will it just confuse her if/when I do or don't use it?

[bc4ever]

What can I do to teach Jade that the clicker is a good thing? Is there any reason for me to start using it now since she's gone through the rest of her training without one? Will it just confuse her if/when I do or don't use it?

 

I'm confused. LOL! If she's already gone through the rest of her training without a clicker, why would you feel you needed the clicker now?

 

Scooter never responded well to the clicker. Or maybe (probably!) it was me. Seemed like a lot of extra effort--command, click, treat. Not enough hands! Plus, Scooter wasn't treat motivated. He'd just look at me with a puzzled, sort of "you've got to be kidding, right?" look!

[JaderBug]

I'm confused. LOL! If she's already gone through the rest of her training without a clicker, why would you feel you needed the clicker now?

 

Yeah, I suppose you're right. I was trying to figure out a way to get her to play with a soccer ball without picking it up (thread) and I thought that maybe clicking the behavior when she got her nose under it and pushed it would help her figure out what she was supposed to do. I guess the reason I didn't use it in the first place was because my hands would get too jumbled up. Silly me!

[DTrain]

I do not use clickers in training. I much prefer verbal commands but I also must ask if the dog has been trained why try to switch her to clicker training. If you are doing well with other training methods and she is afraid of the clicker I would stick with what you were doing.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I agree that if you've never used it for any training, there may not be much need for one anyway. HOWEVER, I do use both clicker and verbal commands for training. Depending on what I am teaching. For instance, I never would have used one for teaching sit, down, stay or wait, but GOD I wish I would have had one when I was trying to teach her shake a paw! A clicker can come in extremely handy when you are trying to shape a behaviour, like pushing a soccer ball with her nose or feet instead of picking it up in her mouth. But if she is afraid of it, this migh not be the best route of course! Daisy was very, very intrigued the first time I clicked it! I started with something she already knew, like sit, so she would "get" the idea. The first couple of times she was her regular distracted self and when I gave her a click and treat for sitting a couple of times, she was totally pumped about it. Now when I am teaching her new things, it seems the more I c/t for the appropriate behaviour she gets more and more excited and you can actually see how much fun she is having! Some dogs would just rather not. Perhaps you could use a bridge word instead of the clicker, like "yes" or something and use the same theory behind the clicker but with the word instead to shape the behaviour you are looking for???

[Root Beer]

To help your dog learn to love the click, you might try this:

 

Get some really highly valuable food - something the dog will find irresistible, and toss a whole handful on the floor. As the dog eats, click several times. It is best at this point to hold the clicker behind your back or in a pocket. Immediately stop clicking when your dog is finished eating. You want to build an association between the valuable food and the click.

 

Do this several times a day for a few days and then try loading the clicker as normal. If your dog is still afraid of it at that point, you might try an i-click, which makes a softer sound. Of my four dogs, one turned out to be truly sensitive to the sound of the click. I use the i-click with him and he really enjoys clicker work.

[Root Beer]

Is there any reason for me to start using it now since she's gone through the rest of her training without one? Will it just confuse her if/when I do or don't use it?

 

That really depends on what you are looking to train. Personally, I find the clicker an indispensable training tool and would never consider not using it.

 

At one point, though, I was in the same boat that you're in now. Speedy had started his training without the clicker and he was doing OK. I had pretty much decided not to use it when I saw a demo of a dog doing free shaping. I was so blown away that I went home and started clicker training immediately and I've never looked back!

 

There are benefits to using the clicker that I really can't see gaining any other way. Example - at one point Maddie was very apprehensive about weave poles. I rewarded her lavishly, did the "HAPPY" thing (which I feel is highly over-rated, but that's another topic!), and tried every trick in the book. I was working with a substitute instructor one day and she watched me try to get Maddie into the weaves and she asked me if Maddie was clicker trained. I said that she is, although I have never used the clicker with her as much as I use it with the Border Collies. She told me to click Maddie's entry. Presto - she never had a problem with the poles again. I mean her attitude toward them, although her weaving skills also improved in a hurry. You'd think I'd have thought of using the clicker with her in the poles sooner, but I simply hadn't! Nothing else worked in this case, but the clicker took care of the problem in one click.

 

I've used the clicker to teach Speedy that the world is a safe place even though we have to share it with other dogs and people. There is no way I could have done that any other way.

 

The clicker is highly beneficial for distance work. You can mark the exact correct behavior when the dog does it without having to go out and reward. I use it to build lead out distance in Agility with nice results.

 

For me it was worth getting my dog started with clicker even though we hadn't used it in his early training.

 

Also, no, it most likely won't confuse her when you don't use one. With a dog of normal temperament, the clicker is used to teach new behaviors. It can be used to reinforce well-known behaviors, but it is not 100% required. I flip back and forth between clicker and no clicker all the time and the dogs have no trouble.

[mum24dog]

II also must ask if the dog has been trained why try to switch her to clicker training. If you are doing well with other training methods and she is afraid of the clicker I would stick with what you were doing.

 

And I would ask why not try something new that might enhance the OP's training skills?

Most clicker trainers started using more traditional methods with good success but have moved on since then.

You often don't get the "lightbulb moment" as easily with a crossover dog though. Traditional methods don't encourage a dog to think for itself and working things out when training with a clicker can be difficult, especially if a dog has been trained by the use of correction.

 

Having said that, I haven't used a clicker as much with our BC as with the other dogs. Most BC's are much more responsive to the human voice than other breeds and I can see why many BC owners wouldn't see the point of using a clicker. That's not to say I think they're right though.

Those who dismiss clicker training (which doesn't have to involve a clicker or food treats - just a particular mindset from the trainer) often have some misconceptions about the process.

 

Pam

[Ninso]

I'm confused. LOL! If she's already gone through the rest of her training without a clicker, why would you feel you needed the clicker now?

 

I started without the clicker and now I do some clicker-training and some non-clicker training. I find the clicker to be indispensible for teaching tricks and shaping behaviors that are difficult to lure. Even when I'm combining luring with the clicker, I find that the clicker provides a very definite "yes, that was right" for my dog, and I think that helps when he is feeling insecure about a new behavior.

 

My dog was afraid of the clicker at first. They are pretty loud--you can muffle the sound by putting it in your pocket and/or standing further away from the dog while "loading" the clicker and just throwing the treats to her. I think I did both of those things.

[Barb Scott]

You can also use a click-type ball point pen (or put masking tape over the clicker).

Barb S

[orion318]

Well i'm not sure how you are doing it but it's strange that she's afraid of it unless you first clicked it too close the ears. (try it close to your own and you'll see what i mean).

 

Unless she's a "scared of new noises dog".

 

But since the clicker means job well done get her favourite thing out (food or toy) and when she does something right click and reward. If you've gone over most of your training it's fine but the clicker is great for shaping new behaviours. Some people say they don't enjoy clickers and prefer verbal commands, it's fine (in stead of clicking you can say "good job", i personaly do both) but the clicker is more precise in marking what you want, for example imagine if a dog is marking with his front paw a target, you'll mark it better with a clicker than with vocal because he might have all his feet in the mark by the time you properly vocaly reward it.

 

Anyway first of all you must do what feels best for you and your dog. If she doesn't like it at all don't push it...but i'm sure she'll figure it out

 

And yes it's fiddly to work with a clicker...hand position + clicker + food giving + leash sometimes equals 4 or 5 hands but don't worry, you'll get the hang of it...we all start off like that..

 

Good luck

[mum24dog]

And yes it's fiddly to work with a clicker...hand position + clicker + food giving + leash sometimes equals 4 or 5 hands

 

I'd forget the leash - but then you get a target stick ----

 

I'm as cackhanded as they come so I rarely use a target stick but even I can manage a clicker and a few treats.

 

As for substituting a verbakl marker, the main problem is that it's virtually impossible to find one that you never use at any other time, or that you can be sure of using with absolute consistency as would be the case with a clicker.

 

I do use "Yes" if I'm caught without a clicker but I'm well aware that it doesn't have the same power as the clicker itself.

 

Pam

[RaisingRiver]

To address the exact behavior, does your pup know 'no bite'? River picks up the soccer ball with her teeth, but I wanted her to nose it back to me (at around age 2) and she knew no bite from her puppy days so when I said 'bring it' she went to use teeth to grab and I said no bite. She was immediately puzzled (knew she wasn't supposed to use her teeth, but didn't know how to get it to me otherwise), so I said bring it again, and had to say no bite again.

 

Her little brain wheels started churning, she barked a few times in frustration (like she normally does in cases like this) and I just repeated the sequence of requests. Within a few mins she used her nose. A great big YES! and excited me and another bring it (cuz it wasn't close enough yet) and she caught on. Yes is her 'clicker' word since I find the clicker cumbersome to use (I'm just better w/ the Yes cuz that's what I started with).

 

I also often use No in a monotone voice to mean that's not what I want. I don't use No as 'no, bad dog, don't do that'. But if you do, you could always use 'wrong' in the same way - which is basically the opposite of the yes. Just so the dogs knows that's not what I'm looking for. Other people tend to just ignore the behavior they aren't seeking. River either likes to be micro-mananged or I've just inadvertently trained her that way.

 

I've heard many people use quiet clickers (look online) or Snapple-brand type bottle tops (pop-up release seals) in place of the clicker.

 

All that said, the only way I could teach River to 'go around' (ie. run around the back of me to head out again) when we first really started playing frisbee at around 7mos or so was with a clicker. I was luring her around and she just wasn't getting it - excited with the frisbee and all, so I went inside and got the clicker I rarely used and in 5mins she learned it solid. Since then however, I've never used the clicker with her and she learns just as easily for similar types of behaviors (esp with frisbee in hand as reward) which told me she's more toy motivated then food. So it could be eventually the clicker for your pup means toy, not treat.

[Root Beer]

As for substituting a verbakl marker, the main problem is that it's virtually impossible to find one that you never use at any other time, or that you can be sure of using with absolute consistency as would be the case with a clicker.

 

I do use "Yes" if I'm caught without a clicker but I'm well aware that it doesn't have the same power as the clicker itself.

 

There is a theory that the sound of the click actually facilitates the building of new pathways in the dog's brain. I've watched this happen before my very eyes over time with Speedy. I know that's anecdotal and not scientific, but for me it was very powerful to watch. There is some science behind the theory, of course.

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with a verbal marker, but I've never been able to make it as effective as the click with my own dogs.

[bc4pack]

'orion318' wrote:

 

 

<l i'm not sure how you are doing it but it's strange that she's afraid of it unless you first clicked it too close the ears. (try it close to your <own and you'll see what i mean).

 

<Unless she's a "scared of new noises dog".

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Actually it isn't that unusual... a noise sensitive dog or just plain shy and sensitive can find the sound uncomfortable. Many recommend the softer sound of a Snapple

lid or the ball point pen and of course loading the clicker. If a dog is perhaps a rescue/ shelter dog then who knows what the

association with a clicker may be....

 

Just a few thoughts,

[dogsofmenace]

I was going to type out a big long response to this but Root Beer TOTALLY said everything I wanted to and more. Her suggestion of throwing the treats of the ground further from you and clicking as she eats them is great. I've also heard of people who use ball point pens as clickers for sensitive dogs. I had a flashlight that made a clicking noise when you turned it on and off and I used that at one point.

 

I will add that I LOVE the clicker. Love it love it. I don't understand why people are saying you shouldn't try to use one; they are amazing. There's just something about them. My dogs seem to pick up so much faster on behaviors that I use the clicker with than those that I use a verbal. And I'm sure you dog won't be confused at all. Two of my three dogs are crossovers from traditional training. Sure, at first they were a little confused about why I was just sitting there and not telling them what to do, but now they are very good at offering behaviors.