DTrain Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Our youngest dog smiles or is it a smile. He has done it since he was a small puppy. He lifts his upper lip, wags his tail and most of his body and smiles like a clown. I have never had a dog that smiles so I don't really know what this is. Last night I was walking three dogs. Three BC's get a lot of attention. Two people approached me, a man and lady. The man asked if he could pet the dogs. I sat them and he approached. Our young dog got up started to smile and wag and the lady freaked out. She grabbed the guy by the arm and pulled him back saying, HE IS SHOWING HIS TEETH. The man seemed to know the dog was not a threat and told the lady he is just smiling. I never thought about it before, he smiles all the time. But, what is that behavior and how do they come by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyleew Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 I also have a dog that smiles. A lot of people get afraid when they see it, but it is obvious that she is smiling by the rest of her body language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 I couldn't tell you why they do it. My grandfather had is dog trained to smile for a cookie every morning. Years later I was approached by a very large bc/lab cross and he was smiling at me, frankly it scared the cr*p out of me, I had never met this dog before and no one warned me that he "smiles". He just sauntered up to me tail a waggin and teeth a showin, I was very confused until someone let me in on the secret, then of course he got lots of pets like he wanted in the first place!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalemsMom Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Cheza's Momma smiled on command. It was very cute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicGirl Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Magic smiles so big it makes her sneeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flrpwr52 Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 My Kya smiles. She greets me with a smile every morning and when we go to obedience class she smiles at the trainer. She won't smile on cue and doesn't smile at everyone she meets. I think yo have to be well liked by her to get a smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Lightning will do it occasionally, usually only if he thinks he's in trouble. He very rarely does it to me, and then it's just a half smile, just one side of his mouth. Sometimes he'll smile at dh though. Once when the dogs were outside with me he snuck across the road to my neighbours, just at the edge of the lawn. She said to him "What are you doing over here?" and said that he gave her a great big "sheepish" smile like he knew better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 My Kirra will smile when she's really happy to see someone - often my training partner and her dog and her husband. She doesn't show teeth - just has a really relaxed mouth with the sorners pulled waay back. My aunt used to have a big ACD that would smile with all the teeth showing - as another poster said - the rest of the body language showed it was a smile. This dog really liked women, and they would get the benefit of his best smile - but you sure had to be able to read the rest of the body to feel comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 My nieces' Westie smiles when she sees me, and there's a great wiry Jack Russell at the park who smiles when he sees us coming down the path. There's definitely a difference between smiling and snarling, though if I try to define it for myself (and make practice faces), I'm not pinpointing the difference very well. Could be just the rest of the body language that makes it obvious it's a smile? Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthBelle Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Hey you guys, not fair!!!! How's about some pictures!!! I'd love to see 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted June 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 I still wonder how or why the dogs develop this behavior. It is obvious my dogs are happy to see me when I have been away from them and I presume their response is joy, pleasure, happiness or something along those lines or perhaps I am reading it wrong. We tend to see our dogs emotions the way we see human emotion. But why the smile. Why make a facial gesture that is so common to humans. Could it be that they are so in tune with our body language that this is something they have learned. When I first started working with herding dogs I had a number of problems that were body language related. My dog would do something I did not want or ask him to do and I could not figure out why. I had the chance to work with a top trainer and one of the first things he said when he first saw me work with the dogs is stand still and shut up. I was giving my dog commands I was not even aware of. Sometimes I really have trouble holding back a laugh but I understand that a wild and crazy border collie with his tail down, ears back, wiggling like a maniac and showing all those scary teeth can make one feel a little nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Why make a facial gesture that is so common to humans. Could it be that they are so in tune with our body language that this is something they have learned. Interesting question! I'm not sure if it's something they learn, or something that maybe some dogs have held onto through evolution? There's a lot written about canine body language, comparing the faces a dog makes to the faces a human makes in various situations - they're very similar. Relaxed, happy face = "smile," forward commissure = "Don't push your luck or you'll regret it." Also, the lip curling submissive dogs do when going belly-up seems to be appeasing to the more dominant dogs, much the way a weak smile from a human can de-escalate potential arguments. Maybe smiling is just something that HUMANS have held onto as we evolved - a remainder of some universal mammalian "face relax" expression that signals similar intent across species? ("The Other End of the Leash" is a great book, as is "Bones Would Rain from the Sky.") I chuckle when I watch my eighth grade male students do the posturing they do when they're just about to get into a scuffle: chests out, arms drawn back... they look for all the world like male gorillas about to get into a scuffle. As for the pictures - it must be tough to capture this. I Googled "smiling dog" this morning but didn't get any authentic pictures of the expression we're talking about. Anyone got any good pics of their dog? Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyler Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 My sensei has a chocolate lab that "smiles" all of the time. It looks like he is ready to rip your throat out but its just his way of showing you he is happy to see you. It is odd that some dogs do this as in doggy language its a no no. I personally have never had a dog smile in the teeth out manner but I have had dogs smile in many other obvious ways. My late BC Skyler would litterally pull back the corners of his lips and tuck his head a bit for a wonderful closed mouth smile. Here is an example of my little Koda's smile. And yes, he's the ultimate party animal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 My Pam, her daughters Mist & Speck both smile; the sire Preacher smiles, Preachers sister Lil smiles at my husband but not at the owner. Preacher and Lil's dam smiles...don't now if Brass the poppa smiles. Maybe genetic and runs in families...or maybe we make them really happy! They get all squinty eyed with lips all pulled back, show teeth and wiggle... i'll attempt to get a picture but they don't smile for the camera. cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalesred Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Both mine 'smile' too. I remember reading years ago that dogs learned it from humans by watching us - I'm not sure if this is strictly true or not. I do however, have a HUGE grin so it would not be difficult for them to watch and copy, I suppose! Would love to hear if there's any solid evidence for it being copied from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted June 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Both mine 'smile' too.I remember reading years ago that dogs learned it from humans by watching us - I'm not sure if this is strictly true or not. I do however, have a HUGE grin so it would not be difficult for them to watch and copy, I suppose! Would love to hear if there's any solid evidence for it being copied from us. I would love to hear also if anyone out there is an expert on this. Humans and canines have been together for a long time. I know that my dogs understand my body language whether they are working, playing or otherwise. I use the usual human facial expressions such as stern when they are acting up or smiling when I greet them etc. My top dog, the smiling dogs father, does not smile although he will raise his upper lip but not to the point where he shows his teeth. He does however lower his head and look at me sometimes like he is looking over a pair of glasses. I have also seen him many times stop working for a moment and look at me with his head down like I have made an error and he knows better and he usually does. I don't know about other breeds, I have only ever had BC's but they sure are a joy to be around. They are so animated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalesred Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 He does however lower his head and look at me sometimes like he is looking over a pair of glasses. Meg does that too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 I remember reading years ago that dogs learned it from humans by watching us - I'm not sure if this is strictly true or not. I do however, have a HUGE grin so it would not be difficult for them to watch and copy, I suppose! I'd believe it! I definitely have some body language things that came purely from watching dogs interact - and I use them with all dogs. When I see a happy dog and want to show that I want to play, I do a little hop-step, land with a little squat at the knees, and throw my arms out, in imitation of a play-bow. I also do a kind of relaxed, loose, body-butt wiggle thing to imitate the happy, relaxed approach of a dog to someone he knows. Dogs seem to understand me. I'm sure they're bright enough to mimic us in turn. One thing I love to watch Cesar Milan do is to "channel" dog body language when he's talking to a human owner. He gets the dogs' looseness or tightness, their happiness or wariness, down pat. When I see him imitate a dog's body language, I know exactly what the dog he's talking about is feeling. Does anyone else find themselves with a whole body-language vocabulary they've developed solely for talking to dogs? Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Pepper does this too. They "say" it is submission smiling. But I think alot of times she is really happy when she does it. And I know that she picked it up from us. I have come to find that BC's mimic alot of human behaviours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalesred Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Here's Rhiw. Not so much smiling as smirking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 A Poppy Smile.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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