Odin is herding our cat!

[powerfulgazelle]

Wow. Let me see if I can try this. I see you are thinking this forum would be a happier place if we could all be very careful in how we word things. That makes me feel very weary, and a bit doubtful that it could be accomplished, given that we are all from various different backgrounds, mindsets, educational levels, etc. I am concerned that we would no longer have any exchange of ideas as we might all be so carefully tip-toeing around our words (and inferred tones?) that we might as well just pack it in. I also feel if we all wrote our responses in this manner, we might as well all be borgs.

 

Honestly--my first reaction to the above is psychobabble (I'm not trying to be offensive, but that's really the first word that came to mind). I think part of participating in an online forum is recognizing that we are all different and have different communication styles. Each of us has his/her own "voice" when writing, and to think that our world (in this case this forum) would be better off if we were all to lose our individual voices in favor of one which attempts to be so neutral so as to offend noone (yes, it used to be one word, and I'm old-school and still like it that way), seems to me to be a desire to lose a lot of what makes communication interesting, and to me, one of the things I most like about this forum. Ok, so Lenajo seems blunt sometimes. But, if you look past that and really read what she is saying, her responses are generally quite logical and informative because she has lots of experience. Julie P. is more tactful and generally more wordy, but her posts are also very informative and helpful, again, based on experience. Sometimes I can be sarcastic. And so on, much like the real world where we have to communicate with a wide variety of people to accomplish a wide variety of tasks. Some of those people we may not like personally much, BUT we are required (for our jobs, as an example) to deal with all of them.

 

So, read through responses, take from those that which you can glean, leave the others, and move on.

 

A

 

 

Guilty as charged. Psychiatric nurse for my day job for a long time. But, even now that I work with a different "audience", it still doesn't hurt to validate that we humans have brains that are still largely emotional. Yep, the little structure above can be sort of stilted if you do it By. The. Book. But, my point was more that folks might take more away from an exchange if it is worded to keep the person asking the question's POV/agenda in mind.

 

If someone I work with now just got a really crappy dx, and I sit and 'splain all I know, because I know it, I might prove I know about it than they, but heck, if what they wanted was someone to say (today), "Geez that sucks.", they probably aren't listening to me. Maybe if I save the informational part til it is in their agenda to hear it, they will absorb more.

 

Just a thought.

 

ETA:

 

I also feel if we all wrote our responses in this manner, we might as well all be borgs.

 

Nooo...that would be "I IMAGINE if we all wrote in this manner we might as well be borgs"...

 

(and thank you for good natured listening... )

[Pippin's person]

But, my point was more that folks might take more away from an exchange if it is worded to keep the person asking the question's POV/agenda in mind.

 

If someone I work with now just got a really crappy dx, and I sit and 'splain all I know, because I know it, I might prove I know about it than they, but heck, if what they wanted was someone to say (today), "Geez that sucks.", they probably aren't listening to me. Maybe if I save the informational part til it is in their agenda to hear it, they will absorb more.

 

Just a thought.

 

Despite my "danger" bells going off, I'm coming in. Mostly to ask, sincerely, how your suggestion could possibly work in a forum like this one and for a post such as the original (as well as the two responses from the OP). The only way I've seen your "thought" work is when people who have pertinent knowledge, experience, etc don't post at all. What you typically get is the perpetuation of misinformed ideas about whatever is being discussed--such as that it is a breed behavior in border collies to "herd" cats. There is an important place for knowledge and experience and that's what was offered--freely, generously and with no strings. Take it or leave it kind of thing.

 

If someone you work with came in after a crappy day and gave you an interpretation of something that you believed to be potentially problematic, wouldn't you, using all the subtleties available in spoken, face-to-face communication, try to indicate an interpretation closer to what you believed to be valid? Particularly, when you'd heard the same, potentially problematic interpretation many, many, many times before and seen the interaction unfold the same way countless times before?

 

ETA:

Also, Alaska, I completely agree with you

[MrSnappy]

This is going to make me a snob, I'm sure, but ...

 

I find it tiresome when noobs come to a forum and tell the senior members how they SHOULD be posting.

 

I'm coming up on what, a decade of posting here or something? What do you think the odds are that you're going to change me and how I post? And I wouldn't change a thing about most of the senior peeps and how they post either. They know their stuff, and that matters most.

 

I didn't even reply to this thread because it was immediately apparent that it was a lot of verbiage to say "You suck, I hate you ... I'm taking my toys and I'm going home." Seen it 80 kabillion times on these boards alone.

 

I'm one of the senior members who posts way less because over the years my tolerance level has serious receded. It's almost bald.

 

Julie, Lenajo, Anne et al - props, babes!

 

RDM

[powerfulgazelle]

Despite my "danger" bells going off, I'm coming in. Mostly to ask, sincerely, how your suggestion could possibly work in a forum like this one and for a post such as the original (as well as the two responses from the OP). The only way I've seen that work is when people who do have pertinent knowledge, experience, etc don't post at all. What you typically get is the perpetuation of misinformed ideas about whatever is being discussed--such as that it is a breed behavior in border collies to "herd" cats. There is an important place for knowledge and experience and that's what was offered--freely, generously and with no strings. Take it or leave it kind of thing.

 

If someone you work with came in after a crappy day and gave you an interpretation of something that you believed to be potentially problematic, wouldn't you, using all the subtleties available in spoken, face-to-face communication, try to indicate an interpretation closer to what you believed to be valid? Particularly, when you'd heard the same, potentially problematic interpretation many, many, many times before and seen the interaction unfold the same way countless times before?

 

 

Eep! No danger bells necessary!

 

Yep, most likely, I would. I'd probably ask them in some fashion if they were looking for my $0.02 or help, I guess, or if they just needed to vent their spleen. And, if they indicated they wanted input, not just a sympathetic ear, I would probably stick to mostly "I" statements when giving the input, as in, "it's been my experience..." or "what worked for me when I found myself in a similar situation". Sometimes, even direct advice is more palatable when phrased as a question (even if it is really a statement)---like, "I wonder if telling Bob you'd be back from lunch at 1PM when you left would stop him from calling your cell every 5 mins..." rather than "You need to stand up for yourself. You'll never be taken seriously if you don't set limits with him!". Something about the "You..."language that can set folks on edge. And, if someone does seem to get their back up about something I have said, I have not ever found it helpful to point out their sensitivity, in the sense of, "YOU overreacted" or "YOU are oversensitive". Usually, I try to ask myself what my purpose was (was I trying to piss them off? Sometimes that answer is yes...if so, it is what it is...) and if my intention has been mis-read, not received accurately, I try to own that by saying, "Hey---I think the way I said that put you off and that wasn't what I was aiming for...let me try again." 'Cos, if I did not intend hard feelings, there's no harm in saying exactly that.

 

ETA:

 

The only way I've seen that work is when people who do have pertinent knowledge, experience, etc don't post at all.

 

Hmmm. That has not been my experience as a newbie here. I have rec'd plenty of kind and well-informed help here, I think. Again, disappointing to me to think that there's a belief that it is too cumbersome or inconvenient to be gracious to one another. I don't believe that's true.

[Pippin's person]

I would probably stick to mostly "I" statements when giving the input, as in, "it's been my experience..." or "what worked for me when I found myself in a similar situation". Sometimes, even direct advice is more palatable when phrased as a question (even if it is really a statement)---like, "I wonder if telling Bob you'd be back from lunch at 1PM when you left would stop him from calling your cell every 5 mins..." rather than "You need to stand up for yourself. You'll never be taken seriously if you don't set limits with him!".

 

Post #1 after original

I thought and did the exact same thing with Violet when I first got her. She would bring me my little no-recall-having feist when it was time to walk the little dogs. She would fetch cats from under the bed. I thought it was fascinating and helpful.

 

Post #2 after original

Ditto. I wouldn't encourage this at all. It's good that they like each other, and there's no chasing going on, but I would not let him get used to stalking, staring or trying to "work" the cat. Just ask SincereArtisan who has a cat obsessed dog who will NOT leave the poor thing alone.

 

Post #3 after original

This would be one behavior I'd nip in the bud. What is cute now will beome increasingly annoying and obsessive as time goes by. Finding the cat is one thing, but there is no way I would not let him "herd" the cat.

 

 

 

Of the 12 posts between the original and the OP's first response, all did what what you suggested--interweaving "I" statements (most used few or no "you" statements") or using questions. Didn't make much difference to the OP's sense of being attacked, unfortunately.

[Pippin's person]

Again, disappointing to me to think that there's a belief that it is too cumbersome or inconvenient to be gracious to one another. I don't believe that's true.

 

I don't think that's the crux of the later posts in this thread at all--the point wasn't that people leave because it's cumbersome to be gracious, it was that it is cumbersome to be gracious and then be told that you're being a jerk and then to explain that you weren't being a jerk and then to be told that you're being a jerk even if you don't think you are and in fact you have no idea what you're talking about and then to be told if only you posted in a nicer way, you wouldn't seem like such a jerk.

 

People were quite gracious until the "bummer to come back to all these mean messages" posting started (as it often does).

[powerfulgazelle]

Post #1 after original

Post #2 after original

Post #3 after original

Of the 12 posts between the original and the OP's first response, all did what what you suggested--interweaving "I" statements (most used few or no "you" statements") or using questions. Didn't make much difference to the OP's sense of being attacked, unfortunately.

 

Ehhh--#1, 5, 6, and 12...the whole "You'll be sorry..." statement probably didn't start things off well.

[juliepoudrier]

PG,

(another wordy post here, although I did say I'd shut up--sorry)

First of all I think you're beating a very dead horse, as a number of folks have tried to point out. And I don't quite get why. As I and others have said here, we see this kind of cycle happen when new posters don't like what they hear. A number of us have also said that a forum such as this isn't meant to be about making everyone feel good about themselves. I've received criticism here. It didn't make me pitch a public fit and then go home hoping someone else like you would take up the banner of my defense (which is the typical pattern and has happened in this thread as well). We're mostly adults, for goodness' sake!

 

Second, no one was rude to the OP; no one flamed her; and I'd be willing to bet that no one set out deliberately to offend her sensibilities. Why, oh, why do you and others feel a need to tell *us* that we need to change *our* behavior? Isn't it just as incumbent upon newbies to take some responsibility for themselves and *their* behavior? Contrary to modern theory, life isn't all about affirmation and praise. I believe that expecting people to be uber careful about what they say and how they say it is just another way of quashing genuine discussion. It really is easier to walk away from something like this than to have to approach in such a "I better spend hours just wording one sentence so that I don't offend anyone" manner.

 

We alll have different personalities. I don't think we need to change those. If I posted what I thought was a cute story about how Lark sleeps next to my (fictititious) child with her head on the pillow and then several people posted to say things like "We don't allow dogs on our bed--they're too dirty," or "I think having a dog on the bed gives it the impression that it's the 'dominant one'," or "I worry about fleas and ticks so don't allow the dogs on the bed," I could be offended because the first poster called me dirty, the second said I was endangering my child by encouraging dominance behavior in my dog, and the third accused me (and my dogs) of having bugs! Do you see how ridiculous it would be for me to leap to those conclusions? I could go off on these posters about how they don't know me or my situation and how dare they say such things about me, how could they know how much I love my child and that I would never endanger it, and so on. Or I could recognize that they aren't calling me anything at all but are simply stating other viewpoints. Should each of those people have started off with something like "I'm not making a value judgment about *you* but I...."? How stifling and pointless that would be....

 

We aren't psychiatrists. This is a place to share ideas and thoughts. We shouldn't have to worry endlessly about whether what we say will offend someone else. Other than the rare case where someone is being cleliberately offensive, I think it would behoove everyone, and especially new folks, to give the people who post here the benefit of the doubt on that point. We don't post to feel superior, or to be mean to other people. We're genuinely trying to help in the limited time we can spend here. And if we have to start tiptoeing around, that time spent here will be less and less.

 

J.

[powerfulgazelle]

PG,

(another wordy post here, although I did say I'd shut up--sorry)

First of all I think you're beating a very dead horse, as a number of folks have tried to point out. And I don't quite get why.

Because kindness and compassion are interests of mine.

 

As I and others have said here, we see this kind of cycle happen when new posters don't like what they hear. A number of us have also said that a forum such as this isn't meant to be about making everyone feel good about themselves.

 

Nope, I did not think it was for that purpose...it says "no question too basic" on the tag line for this forum. IMHO, it might help folks who are newbies to get their questions answered.

 

I've received criticism here. It didn't make me pitch a public fit and then go home hoping someone else like you would take up the banner of my defense (which is the typical pattern and has happened in this thread as well). We're mostly adults, for goodness' sake!

 

I do not know what Ooky hoped. Not privy to that.

 

Second, no one was rude to the OP; no one flamed her; and I'd be willing to bet that no one set out deliberately to offend her sensibilities. Why, oh, why do you and others feel a need to tell *us* that we need to change *our* behavior? Isn't it just as incumbent upon newbies to take some responsibility for themselves and *their* behavior? Contrary to modern theory, life isn't all about affirmation and praise. I believe that expecting people to be uber careful about what they say and how they say it is just another way of quashing genuine discussion. It really is easier to walk away from something like this than to have to approach in such a "I better spend hours just wording one sentence so that I don't offend anyone" manner.

 

It does not take me hours to word things. I don't sit and "worry" about offending anyone. I do try to (as good old freshman English comp used to put it) "consider my audience and my purpose in communicating" and try to tailor my message for the occasion. ETA----And, I am not sure, perhaps I was unclear...it was not my intent to tell anyone they NEED to change. I requested that there be some thought about and discussion of "how responses are packaged and might a different package yield different results". The discussion has happened---thank you. I appreciate it. I guess I feel a little puzzled and disappointed about the "us"/"them" thing in general.

 

We alll have different personalities. I don't think we need to change those.

 

No request made to change personalities.

 

If I posted what I thought was a cute story about how Lark sleeps next to my (fictititious) child with her head on the pillow and then several people posted to say things like "We don't allow dogs on our bed--they're too dirty," or "I think having a dog on the bed gives it the impression that it's the 'dominant one'," or "I worry about fleas and ticks so don't allow the dogs on the bed," I could be offended because the first poster called me dirty, the second said I was endangering my child by encouraging dominance behavior in my dog, and the third accused me (and my dogs) of having bugs! Do you see how ridiculous it would be for me to leap to those conclusions? I could go off on these posters about how they don't know me or my situation and how dare they say such things about me, how could they know how much I love my child and that I would never endanger it, and so on. Or I could recognize that they aren't calling me anything at all but are simply stating other viewpoints. Should each of those people have started off with something like "I'm not making a value judgment about *you* but I...."? How stifling and pointless that would be....

 

Nope, I don't think that would need spelled out in that example. Perhaps different to say, "You are making your child sick and you will be sorry you ever started letting the dog on the bed!" Quite different from, "We don't allow dogs on the bed..."

 

We aren't psychiatrists. This is a place to share ideas and thoughts. We shouldn't have to worry endlessly about whether what we say will offend someone else. Other than the rare case where someone is being cleliberately offensive, I think it would behoove everyone, and especially new folks, to give the people who post here the benefit of the doubt on that point. We don't post to feel superior, or to be mean to other people. We're genuinely trying to help in the limited time we can spend here. And if we have to start tiptoeing around, that time spent here will be less and less.

 

I agree completely. I can't imagine living in constant WORRY about what I say...and I do not expect anyone else to. As to being a newbie and what the newbies can/should request...I think it is reasonable to ask questions and have discussion about how best to be welcoming to the newbies seeking info (or needing info and do not know it yet!) on the GENERAL forum, where basic questions are supposedly welcome. My intention was simply to ask the question and discuss if there was some different way of doing things that might benefit more folks. And, no, of course, it would be a loss for all, I think, if veteran posters chose not to help newbs asking for advice in the newb section. 'Cos, really, where do people who are experienced with BC's and all that is both wonderful and challenging about them WANT newbies to get their info? Irresponsible breeders? The movie Babe? I guess my preference is that we newbs have someplace where it is not a big deal to have even a "stupid" question.

 

J.

[Debbie Meier]

No one is addressing the possibility that the OP misread a post, I did that last night, read it, replyed then found that what I thought I read was not the way it was typed. The brain does funning things sometimes, moves commas, transposes words, oh...maybe that's just my brain. I can't be the only one, can I?

 

Deb

[Pippin's person]

No one is addressing the possibility that the OP misread a post, I did that last night, read it, replyed then found that what I thought I read was not the way it was typed. The brain does funning things sometimes, moves commas, transposes words, oh...maybe that's just my brain. I can't be the only one, can I?

 

Deb

 

Funny you should mention the brain doing funny things when this showed up in the NYTimes this morning:

The Brain Lies

[juliepoudrier]

PG,

I'm gathering that you think that the rest of us are somehow making this place an uncomfortable one for newbies to ask "stupid" questions. I disagree. None of us can control how another person interprets our words. I have said, ad nauseum, that as long as I've been here, I can think of only one or two people who were deliberately provoking to others. Again, I think posters, new and old alike, must first give one another the benefit of the doubt. It's not that hard to do. Above this post is one example of a poster who did just that. If they can't do that, then they need to examine *their real reasons* for being here. A person genuinely looking for help doesn't interpret everything as an insult, in my opinion. (If I say "you're stupid" then I am being insulting; if I say "I think that's a stupid *behavior,* I am not being insulting; it's that simple and it's a general rule of "netiquette" that has been around as long as Internet discussions have existed.) You may disagree, but lecturing folks on how we can be more sensitive to others is just silly (note: I am not calling *you* silly, just the need to tell others how we should put things in words). I intend to keep trying to help people as I see fit. If you or any other newbie doesn't like the way I (or anyone else) say things, then I suggest you just ignore it. Good advice that I'm sure our mamas all tried to teach us.

 

J.

[Debbie Meier]

Funny you should mention the brain doing funny things when this showed up in the NYTimes this morning:

The Brain Lies

 

 

That is funny, and I had not read that article. I've had it happen where I read a post a certain way, I reread it and it reads the same way, then I isolate each word and it does not read that way anymore, I don't know if this falls into the same deal as your blind spot that your brain fills in (remembering that from somewhere).

 

There are so many factors to take into consideration, tone influctions, interpertation.... Then you get the deal where your brain will fill in the word just by you seeing the first letter, someone sent an e-mail a while back, it was a paragraph that you read, it read real easy made sense, but when you looked close many of the words were partials, your brain just filled in the gaps and made a story, I wonder if that story was a little different depending on the individual reader. Does anyone know, is that the same concept that speed reading operates under?

 

Deb

[Debbie Meier]

... but lecturing folks on how we can be more sensitive to others is just silly...

 

Also, trying to reply to a post in a manner that allows for all personality types, produced in a method that attepts to not offend anyone taking each readers viewpoint and the possibility of misinterpertation into consideration creates a post that is difficult to read and follow.

Note: Complaints from other readers may follow and have....

 

 

Deb

[nancy]

Some people seem determined to miss a major point. The OP did not ask a question or ask for advice. The OP posted to brag. Now the OP and others are upset because the OP did not get the expected applause.

 

I feel as if I've crossed the border into the "wonderful" world of self-esteem. Sorry, I'm going back home. Where I can get advice from folks like Julie, Lenajo, Anne, and RDM. And take it.

[Lenajo]

This whole thing about "how to correctly and politely give inoffensive advice" reminds me of the parable of the child, the old man, and the donkey on the way to town.

 

First the people told them it was stupid to lead the donkey when one could ride. So the child got on.

 

Then the people said it was rude for the child to ride while the old man walked. So the child and old man switched.

 

The people said it was cruel to ride the donkey at all, and they should carry him. So the old man and the child did.

 

Of course he was too heavy, so somebody stumbled under the weight and they all fell off the next bridge and drowned.

 

Then the people questioned why they wanted to go to town at all.

 

~~~~~

 

The OP came on bragging about a really stupid behavior he was encouraging in his dog. He was told it was a stupid *behavior* and precisly why. The defination of why the behavior was "stupid" was it endangered the cat, and encouraged habits that would make the dog unpleasent to live with as an adult as best. Nobody addressed the OP personally - negatively or positively.

 

You can argue about the tone, the delivery, the words, and the intent all you want. We've still got a man, a child, and donkey. We called it a man, a child, and a donkey. You can say we should have said "male gender humanoid" "immature humanoid offspring" and a "jackass" but that doesn't change the story. You can move the child up, the man down, or put the donkey on palaquin above both, and it doesn't change the story. You can change it to the PC Boards, tie and gag me, take away Julie's keyboard, and wash out RDMs mouth with dog shampoo and it doesn't change the story.

 

Get a grip people. This board is about the good of Border Collie. It's a place to discuss it, promote it, celebrate it. If you don't want your dog training and husbandry judged by that standard don't post it here.

 

If we keep up the advice, advice all that's going to be left is no boards at all. That is...why even take the man, child and donkey to town in the first place? Just stay home - you'll always be right there.

[jdarling]

Excellent post, Lenajo!

[powerfulgazelle]

Get a grip people. This board is about the good of Border Collie. It's a place to discuss it, promote it, celebrate it. If you don't want your dog training and husbandry judged by that standard don't post it here.

 

Lenajo...I certainly agree with the part about this being a place to discuss, promote and celebrate BC's. I guess, for me, teaching/coaching/advising and judging the "student" are two different things. I guess when I was a newbie anything (parent, clinician, driver, whatever), I hoped the folks with the experience would share what they knew, give me feedback on how I was progressing without proclaiming too many judgments about my learning curve. The ones who did with warmth and humor were the ones I learned best from.

[Lenajo]

I'm glad I didn't wait for the advice I needed over the years to be given with a rosy bow on top.

 

Anybody else had a lesson or a trial critique by a Big Hat?... I bet Becca has, Julie... the kindest version of some of them is "Darlin' that was really bad." Praise was given when it was due, but equally so was the truth when it was bad!

 

I also showed horses for many years. German coaches don't do PC methods. They tell you to "get off z F'n horse before you embarass him further"

 

And I was greatful to get what I got! I was there to learn, not pad my ego.

 

Not even considering what we could have said.... the advice was given to the poster with polite, reasonable language and tone. This is not MollyCoddle Boards, "we make you feel better even when you are hurting yourself and others" boards.

 

If you don't like the delivery, don't take the advice it brings! I will warn you though, that you are going to have very limited help available to you if you consider delivery to be more important than content.

 

I'm done here. To think I even bothered because I was worried about the darn cat, and that another dog would end up in rescue because somebody, AGAIN, thought an obsession with a Border Collie was cuuuu-te .

 

I forgot it's about padding peoples egos, and telling the its ok to ignore experienced adviced if its not what you want to hear. That in the end every poster who hears what they don't want to will be defended by legions of ido-gooders who don't appear to have a clue about the actual problem, but they sure like a cause.

 

My hats off...you have driven another veteran into hibernation for a break. I didn't think I could get that pissed off again.

 

I have. I have indeed.

 

 

 

Lenajo...I certainly agree with the part about this being a place to discuss, promote and celebrate BC's. I guess, for me, teaching/coaching/advising and judging the "student" are two different things. I guess when I was a newbie anything (parent, clinician, driver, whatever), I hoped the folks with the experience would share what they knew, give me feedback on how I was progressing without proclaiming too many judgments about my learning curve. The ones who did with warmth and humor were the ones I learned best from.

[Maralynn]

Warmth and humor can be used in some situations. I personally don't think that is the case where another animals life may be in danger.

 

If I'm doing something dumb or dangerous, I sure would hope that people in the know tell me before I dig myself further into a hole. Even if it does bruise my ego a bit

[MrSnappy]

wash out RDMs mouth with dog shampoo and it doesn't change the story.

 

TOO LATE!! I have bathed Piper (once). I have already eaten dog soap.

 

***************

 

This is such crap. PG, I politely *suggest* you take this discussion to a philosophy forum, not a border collie one - in my ever so humble opinion, you're way WAY off topic now and detracting from the usefulness of the fo. Maybe there is a Superhero forum you can hang out in, and pick up more tips on defending posters from those pesky knowledgeable posters who insist on giving decent advice and making sane observations.

 

Many years ago, because I did not actively discourage Briggs from chasing Leonard / Toilet Kitty, TK scratched his eye all up in a fit of rage one day. That was super. So was the vet bill. WICKED. Briggs couldn't "herd" anything worth caca. All he did was make the cat's life miserable for 11 years.

 

Lenajo come back. Don't let the noobs mess with you. Everyone knows they're crazy ;-)

 

RDM, El Capitan Sarcasmo

[Shetlander]

Lenajo come back.

 

Yes, please don't go. Don't any of you experienced folks leave. That would be such a loss for the community and the dogs we all love. Take a break if need be, but please come back.

[shatchp]

Get a grip people. This board is about the good of Border Collie. It's a place to discuss it, promote it, celebrate it. If you don't want your dog training and husbandry judged by that standard don't post it here.

 

Right on.

 

This board is the primary legitimate source of information about BCs I've found online...because of everything that's posted here by those with real experience, who take their responsibility to the breed seriously. As I believe Julie posted earlier, each response by those who carry this responsibility must be crafted with the general public in mind...it's not about the sensibilities of the individual poster...it's about both the breed in general, and the specific dogs in the households of all who read this board, which could be anyone in the world with an internet connection.

 

I think those of us who stumble upon these boards don't immediately realize what a privilege it is to have this right at our fingertips...

[kelpiegirl]

You know, I have avoided this for a long time. I am one of those people that believe that tone DOES matter in a conversation, be it on the 'net, or in person. Instead of saying "what you did was stupid" thusly alienating the person, one could say "engaging in that behaviour is deleterious to both the dog and the cat". Instead of saying that someone is acting too sensitive, or should go elsewhere, how about just IGNORING further posts. Simply say your peace courteously and be done with it. I frankly am tired of hearing threats from folks that they are going to leave because the newbies annoyed them. Newbies are just that. Cripes- I have been there, and done that, and made the same mistakes. Why alienate them further by getting into a pissing match about who is dumber? All the adults here should know that people many times look only for advice they are seeking- meaning what they want to hear. When someone, for instance would post " My Border Collie is chasing my kids, and it's cute", instead of LAMBASTING them, just take a minute, deep breathe and be civil. Yeah, civility is lost in our lives these days, but I believe that is one of the big problems with our society.

This from the same person who can't tun the post- yeah, I am a newbie in many things too!

[Shetlander]

Instead of saying "what you did was stupid" thusly alienating the person, one could say "engaging in that behaviour is deleterious to both the dog and the cat".

 

But did anyone say those things? I know tempers started to fray after the OP's second post but when I was glancing through answers, I hadn't noticed any "you are stupid" kind of posts.