OOPS poops!

[FoxgloveBC]

Foxy has always had this strange "quirk" I guess you could call it. At first, I thought it was just a puppy thing not being able to control her bowel movements when she got active. But now at 9 months old, she should be able to control herself a lot more. We are coming up with a few snags during training class due to she gets a little too over the top when I use toys. However, when I treat her during class or anytime when she does a lot of activity, she will have a horrid bowel movement within an hour..and it is...a MESS!

 

My trainer really wants me to use treats, and I really didnt want to with this issue, but she calms down a lot more when I use them. Though today as soon as she had some treats in her system, she tried going on the floor, and I had to take her out to do her messy runny business. She had already been taken out right before class and she went potty then, so she NORMALLY wouldnt need to go again until tonight. It is only when she is active and gets excited and with treats in her system. I am at a complete loss at this and never seen a dog do this. I have tried all different kinds of treats, so I dont think it is a certain kind of treat. My trainer suggested pepto bismol pills (childrens ones) an hour or so before class to see if it calmed her stomach down.

 

I am really discouraged as I was told I needed to get a lot more self control, but it is very hard at her stage to get that with just toys (as they just make her more wired), and very hard to treat her much due to these very abrupt messes. Anyone else had this experience? if so what did you do?

 

Also it doesnt happen just when shes in class, it happens when she gets very excited anywhere, anytime, any type of activity.

[Seelie Fey]

Seelie had a sort of "excitement pooping" problem but she eventually (one and one-half to two years old) seemed to grow out of.

 

I've heard from one of my friends that their dogs get the squirts after flyball practice, and after trying different treats, excetera, they''re blaming excitement, as well.

 

Sorry, though. I don't know of a solution. All I can offer is the consolation that you aren't alone with the problem. Maybe someone else here has advice.

[powerfulgazelle]

Eagerly awaiting a reply that will say we do not have to wait this out til Sollers is a year and a half old!

[Liz P]

Sounds more like a question for a vet. She could have something going.

 

What do you feed? What are you using as treats? If she eats something she normally does not eat does she get diarrhea even if she stays calm?

[WyoBC]

It sounds like either her food or her treats are upseting her stomach. If it's always diarrhea I would talk to a vet. Other wise I guess you guys will have to start counting down to the two year old mark Sorry, I had to.

[RaisingRiver]

River has had chronic diarrhea since she was about 1.5yr (she's 2.5yr now). Just this past week the vet started her on daily doses of Fortiflora (by Purina) power (added to food) to help balance her good bacteria in her tummy. I guess it helps a lot of dogs. River never goes when she's excited, but she can't seem to hold it when she has the runs - and even goes in the crate if she's crated and has to go.

 

Hope you figure it out soon. Has taken me a year already to widdle it down - and now she just started having incontinence, get the results of the culture for that tomorrow (possible more lifetime meds).

[FoxgloveBC]

Ive ran fecals on her before and nothing showed up. She has done this pretty much ever since I have gotten her, I just assumed it was her just getting excited and couldnt hold it anymore due to her being a puppy.

 

I think it is a mix of her being excited and also the treats. When I dont treat her, she will normally hold it until I let her take a potty break even if she is excited. When I do treat her, she has to go more abruptly.

 

She doesnt have loose stools on her normal food. Just when she gets excited and gets treated a bunch. She is on Innova (regular..she will be going on EVO eventually, but not while we are getting over the top in class right now), I have tried a wide variety of treats, the cheese puffed kind, Zukes, lamb, etc.

 

She has sometimes gotten an upset stomach on different things but not on a regular basis, like when I changed her food gradually when she was younger, and also Merrick Texas Taffy will make her have runs, I wonder if the really rich stuff gets to her. However, if it is just a normal day with regular food, and a chew, shes got good stools. She can chew on everything chew-wise except for like I metioned, the Merrick Texas Taffy.

[juliepoudrier]

If her regular food sits well with her GI system, couldn't you just use that for treats, or am I missing something (don't have a clue about agility training)?

 

J.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I think Julie is on to something.....will she take her regular food as treats during practice? If so, this might calm the problem enough so she can wait?

[FoxgloveBC]

If her regular food sits well with her GI system, couldn't you just use that for treats, or am I missing something (don't have a clue about agility training)?

 

J.

 

Ive tried using her regular food, but she loses interest in it quickly. She will just start dropping the food instead of eating it. (She isnt a very enthusiastic eater at home)

 

I tried the food rolls for treats, but the one I got was very dry and crumbly and I wasnt very impressed by how hard it was to deal with it crumbling all over the place. Did I just perhaps get a bad roll? I thought they were supposed to be fairly moist.

[silhouettestable]

Maybe not the best treat to use normally, but what about using bread pieces for her training treats? Bread has the capacity to soak up a lot of moisture and might help keep her stools less runny. Plain white bread is also very doughy and pieces of that could be rolled into little pellets like kibble. Cheese can also be binding, maybe little cheese cubes would work? Hope you figure something out.

[MaggieDog]

I've actually used canned pumpkin as an agility training treat when my girl was recovering from an upset tummy issue. I just put it in a ziplock bag, cut a corner off the bag and used it like a pastry bag, squeezing the pumpkin out through the hole as needed. Canned pumpkin is of great use as a stool regulator ime.

 

Probiotics several hours before class could help (use the actual capsules as yogurt doesn't have enough for intensive needs) and I personally have had good success w/ a homeopathic anti-diarrheal as well.

 

Perhaps her class is too long for her right now? Can you try going for just half of it and see if that helps? "Control Unleashed" might be a good resource for you guys as well.

[FoxgloveBC]

I've actually used canned pumpkin as an agility training treat when my girl was recovering from an upset tummy issue. I just put it in a ziplock bag, cut a corner off the bag and used it like a pastry bag, squeezing the pumpkin out through the hole as needed. Canned pumpkin is of great use as a stool regulator ime.

 

Probiotics several hours before class could help (use the actual capsules as yogurt doesn't have enough for intensive needs) and I personally have had good success w/ a homeopathic anti-diarrheal as well.

 

Perhaps her class is too long for her right now? Can you try going for just half of it and see if that helps? "Control Unleashed" might be a good resource for you guys as well.

 

I just got a new job at a bank, so I will probably be going to private lessons since I will probably be working at the hours this class is. The private classes might be better while we are still in this huge treating stage becauses the private lessons are only 30 min long instead of an hour and wont allow her much time to have the oops moments.

 

She has gotten a lot better with self control, but she just gets really wired if I bring out the toys and it wont allow for very consistent work while she is still in the learning obstacle stages. I agree with my trainer that treats will be better to use so she wont get too worked up.

 

I have the Control Unleashed book, but it was so hard to get into it. I might have to open it up and try to force myself to read it (I guess I am spoiled from all the DVDs instead of having to get training tips from books these days... ) Now if they made a Control Unleashed DVD- hint hint Clean Run people! Theyd make a fortune!! =)

[urge to herd]

Rice cakes - sprinkle with some chicken/beef/turkey broth, toast a bit in the oven, crumble.

Freeze dried cheese (if she's ok w/dairy) I get whatever grated cheese is on sale, spread it on a cookie sheet, leave it in the freezer for several days, stir occasionally. The dogs love it and it lasts a lot longer.

Turkey hot dogs - boil to get the sodium out, slice lengthwise into quarters, then into tiny tiny bits, nuke or bake in a low, low oven. When cool, mix a small amount with cheerios or crumbled rice cakes. The hotdog bits flabor the boring pieces.

 

The probiotics is a great idea, even regularly and not just when you're training. If she's ever had antibiotics, her gut flora/fauna may be out of whack.

 

Work alternately with toys/treats at home.

 

Sprinkle her regular kibble with chicken/tuna/etc broth, toast a bit, (it will smell, open your windows!) and use those.

 

And finally, check out Control Unleashed, by Leslie McDevitt. It might help overall with getting a confident, calm dog.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[dogsofmenace]

Now if they made a Control Unleashed DVD- hint hint Clean Run people! Theyd make a fortune!! =)

 

 

Actually, lucky you, they ARE in the process of making a DVD. I'm very excited about it!

But I would try to read the book. DVD's are great, but books are a good resource to have as well since you can't always carry around a television with you to get resources from. I think CU would really help you guys out!

[FoxgloveBC]

Actually, lucky you, they ARE in the process of making a DVD. I'm very excited about it!

But I would try to read the book. DVD's are great, but books are a good resource to have as well since you can't always carry around a television with you to get resources from. I think CU would really help you guys out!

 

I started reading the dreaded book again and now I remember why I never finished it. There are so many references that jump around all over the book. There will be something put on the "First Night" section that says something about the "Look At That! Game" that isnt even introduced until the Fourth Night if I am not mistaken. All the jumping around makes it feel so uneven like the book was put together quickly and not in order. I am such a literal person, that this makes me wonder what is the correct way to even start the program.

Also it will be difficult to follow the program since I dont have access to a lot of different dogs and handlers except in classes. I do see some things that could help, I just am so doubtful if I do it right with just reading it. I will definitely be buying the DVD when it comes out, I will have so much more confidence myself if I can actually see the exercises being done.

 

I have a few ideas that are be based on that CU stuff. I feel that using treats only will bring a lot more calm to her, she really gets the most wired when I bring out the toys which is then when I am told I need more self control. We will see if any of the ideas work out, but I feel very doubtful in how well I know the steps to take since that book jumps too much for me.

 

I know that I probably need to raise the rate of reinforcement which is stated over and over in the book... which means I definitely need to find something that will not make her get the runs.

Anyone with experience with those food rolls? The one I got was very crumbly and seemed dry. Is that not normal??? What are the brands that tend to stay moist?

 

Also, I am hoping to be moving to a different place before too long which will allow me to give her more exercise. I think if she got a bit more consistent exercise, she could feel a lot more settled as well.

[RaisingRiver]

I did agility with cheese sticks (I cut them into teeny squares) and all beef hot dogs (also teeny squares). I generally stopped using dog-specific treats. Hot dogs were the best motivator. It might be that you need to not use dog-related ones.

[dogsofmenace]

I like the food roles, and the ones I've used haven't been very crumbly. Darn, I can't remember the brand of it....but you really don't have to stick to dog-specific things. Try different stuff. You could use some boiled chicken breast. They love it and its pretty easy on their stomachs.

 

Control Unleashed is not really a linear book, you're right. Its not really supposed to be. One section is about the games and the other is about the order in which you do them. I'm a scatter brained person myself, so I didn't really have a problem reading it! I skip around in books all the time. I do see why it might be harder for some. The DVD should be coming out sometime this summer. It might be easier for you to watch that, then be able to have the book for clarification and/or referencing.

But for now it seems like your on the right track with what you are doing with her, so keep it up!

 

CU is definitely not a "This is the way and the only way!!" type of thing, so if you are doing things that work with her and help her, that's great. I pick and choose things from CU and some other books (Shaping Success, Click to Calm, etc) plus things from my own mind that I think would help my dogs.

[Anda]

The one type of food roll I've tried (after hearing about it on this site) is this - Pet Botanics Rolled Meat If you cut it into pieces while it's fresh, it's very easy. It does become crumbly as it dries, but still holds for using it as treats. I've used it during our limted agility experience last year, and I am still using it to teach tricks and even as a topping to sprinkle over his dry food.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I use the Natural Balance food roll for training since it's not as fattening as Zukes and has less salt than hot dogs and she will still go head over heels in classes for it. I have never had a problem with this one, it's moist enough to hold together when you cut it, but some shavings will come off in the bag, but nothing major. You do have to remember to keep it refrigerated after opening or else it will go bad. I keep a baggie half full of cut up bits in the fridge too for anytime training needs. I did have a bad experience with the Roll Over brand of food roll, it must not have had a good seal or something so it was really dry and gross like the one you mentioned.

 

I also agree that plain chicken or bread would be good, I have also used bit of beef and fish but those two might be too rich for tummy troubles. I have used pure pumpkin on food but never for training, but it's good for the stomach.

 

I should also add, that Daisy was like this when she was younger. Mostly if stressed or really excited or car sick. The car sickness SUCKED for a while as it was comin' out of both ends, when she was excited, like going to the big off leash park she would get runny poops. She has out grown this for the most part, she still goes as soon as we get to the park, but it's not impossible to clean up anymore. It's also a bonus that she goes as soon as we get out of the car since that is where the trash bins are and I don't have to walk with it for an hour!

[dogsofmenace]

I use the Natural Balance food roll for training

 

Now I remember, thats the brand I use!

[3dogslater]

I use a lot of Natural Balance too - moist, easy to cut into pieces, easy for the dog to swallow.

 

You can also put some of her regular food in a bag and "season" it with pieces of hotdog or garlicy chicken. The flavour will rub off so her kibble smells yummy but she won't be getting anything but her regular food.

 

You could also try adding slippery elm powder to her food on a regular basis. It's good for coating the digestive tract and helping with bowel issues (for people as well as dogs).

[FoxgloveBC]

I use a lot of Natural Balance too - moist, easy to cut into pieces, easy for the dog to swallow.

 

You can also put some of her regular food in a bag and "season" it with pieces of hotdog or garlicy chicken. The flavour will rub off so her kibble smells yummy but she won't be getting anything but her regular food.

 

You could also try adding slippery elm powder to her food on a regular basis. It's good for coating the digestive tract and helping with bowel issues (for people as well as dogs).

 

I am going to go today and try another Natural Balance roll out. I think I just got a bad one! Maybe I will put her kibble in with the Natural Balance when I train and see if that works.

 

Slippery elm powder? I have never heard of it! I have a bad case of IBS (sorry if that is a bit much of info for you all) and I havent been able to find anything that really helps me out. Maybe I will buy some for both me and her!!! Thank you so much!

 

A small update on progress so far. I had her lay very quietly in a dog bed and had a very calm state to me. Everything was slow and calm and it seemed to work on her. I was clicking and feeding when she would look at me with her expression and earset very calm. I started trying to stay calm when she could hear people and trying to do some slow heeling work. There was even a comment made about her acting a bit more calm than normal. I had a small food roll from Merrick that I also gave her, and she did make a big mess outside when I let her go. But she held it at least until I let her go potty. However, she wasnt running around and wasnt in a new place so I dont know if just being more calm is going to be the only answer I need, however there were plenty of positive notes about our sessions. Anything that was more interesting than lying in the dog bed would call for her to drop the kibble or not be too excited about it. I think the food rolls will be a good idea. I might have to throw in the occassional hot dog piece to make it even more enticing.