Easily startled and uneasy around strangers...

[Crocket]

Hi guys and gals;

 

My first post to this great board. The kids wanted a dog they could play frisbee with and I wanted a running mate and the wife wanted a house dog... We have other small animals so opted to go the puppy route. Actually we began our search over a year ago and found a crossbreed young male in a rescue. Unfortunately he came to us sick and didn't live for more than ten days. Sad.

 

So we bleached EVERYTHING, waited for a year and now we have Crocket. Crocket is a beautiful BC We bought from a working ranch. I believe he's about 12 weeks in the photos. About 14 weeks now. He walks well on a leash, sleeps through the night in his crate, has learned sit, is working on come, and down and want's to chew on everything.

 

So here are my problems;

 

He gets scared of the strangest things.

 

I want him to be very well socialized so we take him to baseball games (kids), swim meets (kid's) and basically anywhere we can. He does great in these settings and has never shown any fear or apprehension of people. When he's in the house he's great. In fact right now I have the front door open and the garbage trucks are running through the neighborhood (very loud) and he seems that he couldn't care less. However, when out in the front yard or on a walk he is afraid of lawn mowers, idling cars, strangers that approach him, skate boards, power tools... you get the picture.

 

When he's scared I always take the opportunity to ask people if they will come and pet him. They do and he is fine with it. A little concerned perhaps but not crazy afraid. I'm sure to hold him close and comfort and support him while this stranger approaches and pets. Hopefully soon I woun't need to.

 

Second problem is he is lazy.

 

He has a bit of prey drive, chases the cats if I let him ( i don't) and chases ants... yeah ants. He will also play fetch for short periods over short distances. Maybe three feet and I worked this up from only a few inches. The thing is he's not really "ïnto it". I would really like to devolpe his desire to play. Food is not a great motivater for him. He has refused chicken breast meat, refused peanut butter and he is very picky about his dog food (we do not free feed he's on a schedule).

 

Enough rambling. Any thoughts?

 

RC

 

 

 

[Lenajo]

How was he raised that first 12 weeks? (what sort of housing, human interaction, training, etc) Did he act like this when you went to pick him out?

[Crocket]

Bingo. He was not socialized at all when I bought him. He was in a pen with his litter mates and had little human interaction. We have had him about two weeks so he has made tremendous progress and I don't want to push him too far too fast. I just want to make sure I'm doing the right things to have a happy healthy adult dog.

[Pippin's person]

Hi RC and welcome to the boards.

 

Is there something that Crockett really likes--like the food he regularly eats or something like that? Have you tried really smelly types of food like stinky cheese, liverwurst, etc? Finding something he *really* likes (and it might not be food--it might be giving kisses or playing tug or something like that. You said he likes to chew--so use something that he *really* likes to chew) will give you something to use as motivation for what you want to train.

 

Rather than thinking of him as lazy, try and think of it in terms of him not understanding the game you're trying to play (ETA: and pretty much anything you're doing with him at this point is a kind of "game"). You've done great building up his interest in playing fetch over short distances--as you keep building that desire, I think it will eventually become *actual* desire. Part of the strategy that I've found helpful with young pups (or really any new dog in the house) is first focusing on teaching them how to learn; that learning is fun, etc. He's very much still a baby and will be for some time. BCs are slow maturers and can still be quite puppy-ish at 2 or older.

 

Aside from the approaching strangers, the other things you mentioned are all things that make noise as they move by/near him--many BCs are sensitive to that kind of thing and it seems that a pretty effective strategy is desensitization.

 

But, I'm curious about what he does to indicate that he's scared?

 

ETA: Since you've only had him for a couple of weeks, he's still kind of feeling his way into his new world. Being patient with him while still offering little challenges (and you can increase those as he matures) will go far in helping him be the happy adult you want him to be.

[Maralynn]

Don't worry about him and don't push him. He is a baby and has lots of things to get used to

 

Think about it this way - of all the new things he's seen in life in the past couple of weeks how many of them don't bother him?

 

People walking up to/ hovering over a dog/pup can be very intimidating to a dog on the shy side. I'd have people drop treats near him, or maybe hold a treat out to him in their hand, but otherwise ignore him at first. When he seems comfortable then let then pet him.

 

As far as lazy, once again he is a baby and his world has been turned upside down in the last 2 weeks. Give him time to adjust and become very comfortable in his new life and that will change!

[Lenajo]

It will take time and patience, and perhaps you will turn around his attitude. Gentle daily interaction with difference people - first just having him around people while you play with him on lead (the people ignore him and over time act "normal" and get closer and closer) then letting people offer him extremely tasty treats (at first they may only be able to drop it casually around him), and build from there. His meals should only come from human hands, first yours, then the family, then outside family adults he has time to get used too - 1 bite at a time.

 

Puppy classes would be good for this guy too.

 

You have to realize that you have missed his formative weeks of human socialization, and you bought from an irresponsible breeder who didn't take care of that on their end. You will spend at minimum of a year fixing this, if not a lifetime. He may never like to play games with humans or openly enjoy loud human social gatherings. Train him and try, there is always hope, but be prepared for that.

 

None of means he won't be a great dog. It just will take much time and work. He's still young, that's on your side, and you are obviously dedicated...which means way more than you think!

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I don't have much more to say than what's already been said, other than, Welcome and OMG about the first puppy. So terrible.

 

You seem like you are on the right track with everything and the others have offered great advice. Lenjao is right, this maybe a life long project for you and your family, but if you start down the right track now, then it will be a lot less hard to deal with in 2 or 3 years. As long as he is getting daily interaction from the outside world you are doing wonders for him!

 

Keep up the good work! (Oh and he's a cutie!!)

 

julie

[Shetlander]

As far as fearfulness/shyness, you might want to check into some books like Help for Your Shy Dog and Click to Calm. I believe there is also a list on Yahoo for people with shy dogs that may have lots of good suggestions. It is a fine line you walk getting the dog out and about without pushing too fast or too hard. The good news is you can really build an amazing bond with "special needs" dogs. My favorite dog ever, who I still keenly miss after almost 4 years, was phobically shy (genetic). He was the most rewarding of any dog I've trained.

 

I agree on not thinking of the pup as being lazy. He may not understand what the game is. Even Quinn who has always shown a ton of prey drive didn't have much in the way of focus at that age. Some of our games of fetch consisted of one (1) throw. Over time he grew an attention span and since he has no sheep, the highlight of his day is our long game of fetch.

 

Crocket is a very handsome boy. Hang in there. Over the long run, you will find the these dogs give back more than we put in

[SoloRiver]

Two thoughts:

 

(1) You say he is fine at baseball games and swim meets. I wonder if he is actually not fine, and is actually shut down. If he lies down and acts like he "couldn't care less" in a very hectic environment that is not so normal for a pup. If he is shy of people on more familiar turf (home) then I would imagine an atmosphere like a baseball game could be overwhelming. This would not be good for him.

 

I have a dog who came to me as a very undersocialized (possibly completely unsocialized) adult rescue. When I first got him, I could take him ANYWHERE (and I had to, because he had serious separation anxiety) because in hectic environments he would just completely shut down and become catatonic. Passers-by thought he was incredibly calm (even lazy) and well-behaved. The truth is that he was paralyzed by fear. I don't know that this is what's going on with Crocket, but if I were you I would be careful. Most shy dogs do better with socialization if they start out in lower pressure environments, rather than being thrown in the deep end.

 

(2) If he is scared of strangers I would not go so far as to ask strangers to approach and pet him. I would be trying to desensitize him to their proximity, but not forcing him to interact with them. If he is frightened, he will not remember that "nothing bad happened," he will remember that "this person came up and I was terrified and I could not get away." I can't see him so I don't know exactly how scared he is, but again I would be careful not to push him too fast.

 

With my shy dog, I would do things like give him treats every time a stranger walked by, but I did not expect him to let the strangers pet him. With my current pup, now eight months old, I would let strangers pet her if she approached them first. I don't believe in pushing them into social interactions if they are not totally comfortable -- it usually does more harm than good. It is OK with me if my dogs are not outgoing, as long as they are not frightened or dangerous. My shy dog cured me of wanting to live with a Wal-Mart greeter; he is no longer afraid of people passing by but he still does not want to be petted by strangers, for the most part (sometimes he'll take a liking to someone) and I love him more than anything, and so I am OK with him being like this. He doesn't need to be everyone's friend. He's my friend and that's what matters.

 

You are starting way earlier than I was able to, so you may be able to "fix" more of Crocket's shyness than I was able to fix with Solo, but if he does not turn out to love everyone he meets it is not the end of the world. One of the things about having a dog, especially one that is a bit shy (and therefore does not conform to the Lassie mold that most people expect dogs to conform to) is that eventually you stop wishing your dog was the dog you'd originally planned on, and you love the dog for who he is. It's kind of like, you know, falling in love with another person, except without the romantic stuff (because that would be, well, creepy).

 

Try not to focus on who you wish Crocket was, and appreciate who he is, and he'll have a better chance of being the best he can be. You may yet end up with the dog that you originally planned on, but if you don't, it isn't the end of the world. He's still just a tiny baby, and they change a lot as they develop, and you seem smart and dedicated so you'll probably have a good outcome. Good luck.

[Guest maya's mom]

I actually posted a similar topic a few months ago about our new puppy. She is now a little over 6 months, and is doing tremendously better. We worked on a few things, but I think it was just her age that was slowing her down. Once she experienced the things she was afraid of, more than a few times, she seemed to get better. Even the trainers and attendees at out puppy classes say how much better they notice she is doing. Just hang in, jeep doing what you are doing, and I think time will help.

[pammyd]

Welcome

I am so sorry to hear about your 1st dog that is really sad

There is so much good advice on this forum which I am sure will help you and your guy

I know - only been a dog owner for just over a year and I have found so much help on here

 

My wee guy came to me from a rescue at 8 weeks and he didnt know how to play with people, was scared of being stroked and everything eles pretty much

It takes time but the good news is that the more you work with the dog and it learns to trust and love you he will become incredibly bonded to you (and you him) OK so he might not like everyone in the world but with your help he will get better

 

As for playing - he is doing really well! On advice from here I spent weeks play bowing to and playing with toys before he would take any notice

It was 6 months before he was fetching a toy in the house and longer outside - even now the ball is good for a wee while but other things distract him

Please dont think of him as lazy - if he was in his pen until 2 weeks ago he is unfit and he has had his world tured upside down it will take time

 

 

Because of all the work I had to put in with my Ben he tries so hard to please me now, we are doing fantastic in agility training, obedience and the heelwork to music trainer couldnt stop gushing about how smart he is!! - and he is not 1/2 as smart as a full collie - we have just worked so hard together to overcome his bad start that he loves learning

[Crocket]

Thnx so much to all who took the time to post. So much good advice and so many thoughts on the subject. I couldn't possible addres each individually, So let me hit a few high points.

 

At games/meets he actually acts like he's having fun. That's what I mean by does fine. He plays with strange kids and anything else he can find (he likes plastic spoons) and doesn't seem to care as strangers pass.

 

With strangers he is not much concerned until they are within 10 feet or so. Then he heads the other way post haste. Again only during our walks. I do get the WalMart greeter comment and that makes good sense. I don't care that he doesn't love everyone I just don't want him afraid of anyone. In that light having everyone pet him may be a bit much for right now. I'll revisit that stratagey.

 

I'm going slow with him. Our games of fetch have been as high as four throws/returns then I love on him and go on to something else. I'll try the stinky food thing. Right now his favorite is a stuffed tiger that squeaks and that is what I use to play fetch. Perhaps he's not really lazy but after researching the breed and reading all the warnings about them being high energy dogs... Well let's say he is the exception to the rule and not what I had prepared for. Not that that is all together a bad thing just unexpected.

 

As everyone said he's only been here two weeks and has made tremendous progress since his first night in the family. I just want to be sure I do the right things for him.

 

Thanks again for all your help, everyone.

 

RC

[Quill]

He gets scared of the strangest things.

 

When he's scared I always take the opportunity to ask people if they will come and pet him. They do and he is fine with it. A little concerned perhaps but not crazy afraid. I'm sure to hold him close and comfort and support him while this stranger approaches and pets. Hopefully soon I woun't need to.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

In my experience with rescue dogs, supported by ethology research, holding dogs close and comforting them when they are afraid of something makes them more likely to be afraid. Soothing a dog makes them feel that there is actually something to be afraid of, and if you are holding them or restraining them in front of you, they feel like you are hiding behind them. The best approach is to act as nonchalant and confident as possible, and as other posters have mentioned, get him to play, or to otherwise act confident himself.

 

It sounds like you are doing a really good job. Remember that he's just a pup and that he'll get more interested and active as he grows.

 

Good luck.

[Crocket]

Thnx Quill. Food for thought.

 

Last week I took him to a swim meet with two large schools that was held in a very tight space. He never batted an eye. He was his perfect puppy self again playing with the children and showing no concern to children and adults alike as the either ignored him or fawned over him. Often we had to go single file through the crowds. At my urging he would either lead or follow, each with out incident. I was really taken by the contrast in his behavior.

 

I noted that he seemed at home and quite calm in this chaotic, noisy environment and that his becoming upset at "meeting" strangers was usually when we were on a quites walk through the neighborhood. The whistles and buzzers at the swim meet caused little reaction yet coming upon a neighbor in his yard or an idling generator in the back of a truck would cause him obvious distress. The odd thing is that wandering around the quieter areas of the campus (it was a long meet) he showed no apprehension at all to passing strangers.

 

I'm inclined to believe that he feels less isolated, less challenged by the larger groups. The annonimity of the crowd as it were. I also think he feels a bit more singled out, more alone and thus less confident on our walks. I spend a lot of time with him in the front yard and I've noticed his reaction to loud passing vehicles has mellowed.

 

I think I'm on the right track with continuing gentle socializing and lots of walks.

 

Again thank you all for your kind comments, thoughts and suggestions. I will monitor his progress closely and modify my approach as required.

 

Rc