What to know to start doing goose control

[silhouettestable]

I'm contemplating training one or more of my dogs for doing goose control. I hadn't even thought about it before, but I was approached by someone working at the vet clinic, wondering if I did it since I've got the BC's. It seems that one of the larger golf courses in our area has a goose problem (along with every other golf course and public place from what I can see ) Anyhow, I referred them on to the farm/rescue where I got my BC's since mine are not trained for it. That's a bit south of me however, and there's no one really in my area, which does leave an opening for me should I choose to pursue this. The farm/rescue where my dogs came from is willing to work with me and my dogs to get us started, and knowing the bloodlines and working ability of those lines she feels that it wouldn't take long to turn my dogs onto doing goose control. I need to discuss it more with her, and with the people at the golf course but in the meantime I thought I'd ask some questions here. Besides the whole training aspect, what else should I know before jumping into this? I did a search and did some reading on a couple of goose control websites and it raised a few good points. Insurance? Permits to oil eggs? I live in Canada, Ontario to be specific, what kind of special permits would I need to have, and at what cost? What kind of time do you spend at this, average number of hours, times of day? What would be the going rate to charge for this service? I'd like to consider this from all angles before deciding whether to go ahead, but the idea does interest me. One thing that I think would work in my favour is that I work from home teaching riding lessons, so I can set my own schedule can be pretty flexible, as long as I'm not doing it on-call. Also, if I chose to pursue this since I don't know of anyone else close by who does it there may be more work available if I were to advertise a goose control service. We have several golf courses in the area and a few public beaches that tend to get overrun with geese, to the point that the beaches sometimes need to be closed to the public. That raises another question. In the beach setting I wouldn't have access all around the lake, would patrolling the public beach area be enough to shift the geese to other areas of the lake and keep the beach cleaner/safer, or would it be futile to even try if they can't be completely driven away from the lake?

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

You should be able to get started without having to worry about insurance and permits and such. Egg season is over for the year - in another year you'll have gotten your feet wet and will know whether you'll need to get into things like that to achieve the removal levels that your customers are seeking.

 

Make sure your dog will recall, and stop dead, anytime, for any reason, even in full chase. Most of us train on stock first to get this, even if it's just ducks/farm geese.

 

Go to the site without the dog, first, and spend an entire day there (sunup to sundown), watching the habits of your birds.

 

Make sure the sites understand that removal is a process. You are dealing with wildlife and have to "retrain" them. And not all birds have read the memos on how "wildlife" is supposed to act in X situation. So to begin with it's a learning game - both you and the birds are learning each other. The idea is to never let the birds "learn" you! You have to be unpredictable!

 

Dawn and dusk (but dawn especially) are your most profitable visit times. You'll have to add intermittent visits throughout the day, but the geese are most easily spooked, even ones acclimated to dogs, at low light hours. If you can work in the rain, that's a good time too. They are not used to seeing people out and about during heavy rain, but real predators wouldn't care. Also, rain and wind cut down on their sight and hearing. Any time you can work that takes advantage of that will increase their respect and decrease the attractiveness of that property.

[silhouettestable]

Thanks for the reply. If I do go ahead with this my trainer will actually start my dog(s) on sheep at her place and go from there and she also said that she'd come up a couple of times to go over to this golf course with me. Right now it's really good timing for me to begin training, my days are mostly free as I don't get really busy with riding lessons until school gets out for the summer. Working in the rain wouldn't be a problem either, it would actually give me something to do if I have to cancel lessons due to bad weather (no indoor riding arena).

 

So my understanding is that now the goslings are here you can't do much to hassle the geese until after the babies have grown the the adults have molted. How long of a time period is it usually that there is no/not much work to be done?

[DTrain]

Becca is correct, train, train, train and on stock. From experience I use only dogs that are fully trained stock dogs. In my company I have a minimum standard that all dogs and handlers must have done trials but that is just me. Do not just train on geese or ducks. You need side commands and an instant re-call, lie down and stop ( stop dead ). It is absolutly mandatory if you are working in a public place that your dogs be completely under your control. They should be able to work with other dogs and people around without the slightest distraction. I am beginning to see signs in Ontario that the dog / goose control industry be given a strong set of standards for two main reasons. Many people in the business now are ineffective at getting positive results. You will hear at many golf courses that they tried a dog and it did not work or they had their own dog and it did not work. Most handlers and dogs have very little training which has caused problems in public situations and a minimum standard is being looked at. Many professional companies are not effective. Some use rescue dogs which are not trained. They rely on the their customers being uninformed. I had a municipality in southern Ontario tell me recently that all they needed to do was get a BC from rescue to solve their problem, BC's naturally herd geese on their own. There is a tremendous lack of knowledge by customers and services. Get a solid understanding of what does work. Study wild canine / goose relationships. To be fully effective you are presenting your dogs as predetors, not just chasing geese. Study the locations you are working carefully. I helped build a goose control program in the Okanogan where I am sure you have heard there is a serious problem. I worked with multiple clients including private and public. I spent as much time investigating locations and giving information seminars as I did field work. You are correct. At the moment you can't work the geese ( it is illigal in Canada ) to work gosslings and molting adults. In most areas it will be late August before the geese can be worked again and at this time they will start to move around in large numbers. I strongly suggest that you work on the dogs and study and be ready to go before nesting next season. Becca is also correct, I would like to meet her and exchange stories. You will be working in the worst weather conditions and in Canada we have some great weather challenges, up long before dawn before the rest of the world wakes up and out there again when the rest of the world goes to bed. Most good goose dog people I have met are very dedicated. I hope this helps. I don't remember exactly where you are but try to locate a community who has been doing goose control with dogs for an extended period and go out and see how they work.

[silhouettestable]

To be fully effective you are presenting your dogs as predetors, not just chasing geese.

 

Which is why at first didn't I even consider doing this with my dogs and passed along the contact info for someone who I know does have trained dogs. Sure I could have unleashed a pack of untrained dogs at the golf course but...no. The idea of goose control began to grow on me though and that's why I wanted to do some research, find out more and think about putting the training on one or more of my dogs. I'm sure it varies with each dog and handler, but what is an approximate length of training time that "most" dogs would need before they'd be ready? (in terms of weeks, months, years? and on average how much training time would be spent each week?)

[DTrain]

I am not sure how to answer. My best goose dog was already trained and working stock when I got him. I work stock and geese with him but most of his work now is on geese. We have a situation where we are able to practice on stock every day however. Do your dogs have any training on stock. Your dogs race which fansinates me. Perhaps we should start a club of stock, racing, rescue, goose and agility BC's. To do goose work especially in public situations you will need all of the usual herding commands and be able to have your dog under complete control and that is part of the fun anyway. Length of time certainly depends on the dog and trainer and how much work you do will be a factor. If your dogs want to go to stock and you will need to determine if they have an instinct to work stock and if you were able to work with them almost daily you could have a goose working dog in a single season, spring to winter. If you have the facility for sheep you could train and practice every day. I don't know how much time it takes because once a dog arrives at the point he is able to work stock you are doing it every day. For goose work only I would think that once the dog has his commands and working well you would be ready for geese. I will let you know. I am training my youngest dog now on stock but his job will be mostly geese when he is trained. He is not working geese at the moment but I expect him to be ready by mid season next year. His training is a little different. Based on my experience with goose work and the need for a dog to be under control I spend much time with him on obedience and I am even thinking of getting him into agility but his basic training will still be on stock. I will not even show him wild geese until he is trained on stock. The bottom line is, I think he will be basically trained and working stock in a limited way meaning small flocks of sheep by next summer. I will continue to work with him and practice on stock and take him to geese following next years molt and by the following season he should be a top working goose dog. At least this is my plan and hope, we shall see. I have not trained a dog only on geese and I am not certain if this would shorten your time or if this would even work, perhaps someone else knows.

[silhouettestable]

The dog I am thinking of starting is Storm, the one I posted pics of in the gallery, and maybe also his sister Rain. They do have a good working background, mom is actually currently out on loan at a sheep farm that recently lost their old dog. My dogs have never been exposed to sheep, cattle or geese however they are around horses, poultry and rabbits. In my admittedly uneducated (with regards to herding) opinion, I think Storm shows a lot of potential for herding. All of my dogs accompany me around the farm daily doing chores but Storm in particular has a fascination for the livestock and his focus remains on them rather than the other dogs playing. He does not chase but wants to follow, circle, slowly walk up, and lie down around the horses, never letting the other dogs playing around distract him from the horses. He doesn't try to move them but just watches and when they move he follows or runs out wider and circles. He seems to be most content when they stay in one group, at one pile of hay rather than divided into two groups. With the chickens it's a different story, he does stalk them and drive them around in the chicken coop (and outside when they're out), and lies down intently watching. He never does them any harm, just likes to move them around. When I leave the coop and say "Storm, out" he leaves. Same with the rabbits. We have a couple of pet rabbits in large hutches in the backyard which the dogs can go into when I'm feeding/watering. The dogs are interested in the rabbits but when I'm done and say "get out" they all do get out and leave the rabbits alone. Don't know if any of this has any bearing on how he/they would be on sheep or geese, but Storm strikes me as a dog that wants to work.

[silhouettestable]

Your dogs race which fansinates me. Perhaps we should start a club of stock, racing, rescue, goose and agility BC's.

 

I forgot to mention in my last post. There is a yahoo group called BCSledDogs that may interest you. Here's the link http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BCSledDog/

 

There are a couple of other people I know of, somewhat local to me who also race with BC's

[DTrain]

If you have a stock dog trainer in your area check it out. It sounds like Storm may have an interrest but you need to find out for sure. A trainer or someone with stock dog experience who has sheep could help you with Storm. Take Storm to the sheep farm where mom is a see how he does around sheep. I have a friend who starts his dogs on cattle but I much prefer sheep. You have a farm so if Storm wants to work stock you could get 3 or 4 sheep and work with him as well. Storm may be easier to work with than a dog just starting out. There are a number of videos out in the real world that you would find helpful as well. Check the web and become familiar with herding commands. You can also check www.youtube.com and find some training clips that will give you an idea of what to expect.