john landry Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Bonjour John, It’s me, Lili, your 18-month old fear aggressive BC. I want to start off by thanking you for having rescued me some 8 months ago. Your training knowledge has benefited from the excellent advice received from BC Boards members (special gratitude to Herdcentral). I know that I’m still fear aggressive and that I probably always will be to some extent but I have improved over the last months haven’t I! And I appreciate all the desensitization that you organize every day (I still hate those shopping center parking lots); I now know how I ought to behave when meeting your kind. I’m not complaining here, I really do love you, BUT, John, I do wish that you would improve your communication skills with other humans because, man, THEY REALLY DON’T LISTEN TO YOU DO THEY. You do tell them NOT to establish eye contact with me, to NOT talk to me, to NOT pat my head, to NOT make any abrupt movement, etc. In short, you tell them to ignore me until I, ME, the DOG, decide, peacefully, in MY own time, whether or not he or she is dangerous to ME. For crying out loud, what’s the first thing they do?! Brazenly, look at me straight in the eyes! Talk to me in a wishy washy vocabulary! Hunker down, extend their hand and offer me their juicy fingers! And all the while, I should be looking the other way! Then, without the slightest warning, they get up and turn around to leave. Wow! How can a red-blooded gal like me resist! Then, when I finally do succumb to temptation, I’m the one they call all kinds of nasty names (mind you John, you do get your fair share of religious sounding epithets). I admit to being a bit put off right now since it happened again this morning BUT, DO HUMANS EVER LISTEN! Lovingly, Lili PS. John, I’ve seen all the books on clicker training lying around the house, so I guess we’ll get into that pretty soon. A suggestion: Please find one with a chapter on “How to clicker train humans”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I think that training humans is the most difficult task ever. The hallmark of humans is that they know that they know. Even when they don't. Or is it especially when they don't? Maybe that is what we will discover is the definining characteristic of humans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 I've experienced the same frustration with trying to train people. Patricia McConnell describes how people are just naturally hardwired to approach in the worst way to a fearful dog. One thing that I have found to be effective is, instead of explaining the don'ts, I instruct them on what to do. For example, I'll say face the same direction as the dog is facing, instead of saying don't stand directly in front of the dog. Or I'll suggest they look at the dog's ears, instead of saying don't look him in his eyes. Otherwise, it's like telling someone, whatever you do, don't think about breathing. Then of course, that's all they can think about. Anyway, congratulations on the progress you've made with Lili. It's always more important to concentrate on the successes than dwell on the failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Sounds like great progress with her, that's great! Silly primates, us humans, needing to smile big and stare directly at those poor scared dogs! If only we could control ourselves better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Lili, First off, let me congratulate you on your mastery of the computer. I live with a human who doesn't even know how to turn one on! And he's proud of it! I know what you mean about humans. Man, they don't listen! But I'm supposed to. My human has taught me not to jump on people when they come in the house, but as soon as they walk in, they make this motion for me to come, and when I do, I get shooed off. Right now, I'm trying to figure out why I'm not supposed to herd everyone together when they try to leave the house. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do? Keep everyone in one place? My lady has been explaining it to me, and I'm doing better, but there's one person who likes to shake his car keys and tease me when he starts to leave. Thankfully, my human has reprimanded him, and I think he's finally learned not to do that. <sigh> Keep up the good work. You'll be okay. John will just have to work harder with the human training. (Oh, and hide the clickers! They really annoyed me!) Your buddy, Scooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Dear Lili, I feel your pain. Love, Solo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyler Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 <Sigh> Lili, I hear you Lili. Next time a human does that to you, ask John to immediately and quietly turn and ask someone behind you that you are comfortable with to hold you so he can train the human for a second. Then tell him to immediately turn around, move in quickly and act like he is going rub the human's head that tried to pet you - but dont actually touch them!!!! . It will be funny when the human backs off fearfully and tries to slap his hand away. John should then say to the silly human, "And you expected my dog to act differently?" This is the quickest training method for humans regarding this scenerio that I know. I have tried it and it WORKS WONDERS! The humans may not like it and they can be a little rude at first, but the experience will sink in for good. Your friend, Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Dear Lili, Cricket knows how you feel. It's tough isn't it? Do you think we could share your letter with our obedience classes? MAYBE some of those humans will get your message about listening! Cricket wants you to know that's it has taken a LONG time, but she is getting better but then again, she still has her moments and she is 5 years old now. It sounds like John really cares a lot about you and is trying very hard to make sure you have a good life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 31, 2008 Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Dear Lili, If I had a dollar for every time my person has said, "ignore him completely until he approaches you" and then that person has proceeded to lean over me and reach unwelcome hands out toward my face, I could retire to the beach. Humans seem to be very difficult to train, indeed! Sincerely, Speedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john landry Posted May 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hey fellow BCs! Thanks for encouraging my promising literary career! Special thanks to Nancy in AZ for the really cool, practical advice to John. He will certainly try that “look at the ears” bit (I love that! Especially since we BCs have such gorgeous ears.). And SKYLER (Ryan), it would really break me up if John ever found the courage to “pat the human on the head”. KrisK and Cricket – my letter is yours to use. Lili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted June 1, 2008 Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 One quick idea, I used to be an extremely fearful dog and for a while my Mom kept a laminated card that she would hand to anyone that looked like they were headed in my direction. It had instructions on what to do and not to do with me. By the time they finished reading it I was already feeling better because the strange human was busy reading instead of staring. And something laminated on paper seemed to have more weight than my Mom's words did. At least it kept the aggressing human from making eye contact with me for a few moments longer so my Mom could get in a better position to keep me feeling safe. 3 Woofs to you, Raven-the 9 yr old not so fearful of anything anymore dog klr- Ray never did become proficient on the keyboard so she had me type this for her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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