Will he ever like anyone?

[Tracer]

I have posted before about my pup Scout who has fear aggression and won't go near anyone without lunging and growling and barking. We are working on desensitizing him around different inanimate objects and he is doing better. But will he ever just accept anyone without having to go through a lengthy intro. He is 8 mos old and will only accept one other person outside of my immediate family.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else had gone through something like this and had a wonderful outcome. He is the most loving dog that I have ever had, and I have had many in my life. I just wish others could see him the way I do.

 

Thank you!

[DTrain]

I have posted before about my pup Scout who has fear aggression and won't go near anyone without lunging and growling and barking. We are working on desensitizing him around different inanimate objects and he is doing better. But will he ever just accept anyone without having to go through a lengthy intro. He is 8 mos old and will only accept one other person outside of my immediate family.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else had gone through something like this and had a wonderful outcome. He is the most loving dog that I have ever had, and I have had many in my life. I just wish others could see him the way I do.

 

Thank you!

 

I was told by a trainer once that this sort of behavior is not so much aggression toward other people but protection of his property, you. If this is correct and I have no idea he may see others as a threat to his property. Why would he accept another person and who is that person in relation to you. I have not had this problem although I have a young dog who is aggressive toward other dogs. If you are Scouts pack leader he should be taking your lead on whom to accept. Again I do not know but perhaps if you work on being more dominant over him he will come around. I once trained a young dog as a visit dog ( seniors homes etc. ). I made a deal with several local retailers including Walmart to bring the dog into the store at busy times. People would avoid him or come up to him. I taught him to sit and do nothing when he was approached until I gave him a command to respond. I would stand on his leash so he could not move. He would sit when someone approached and wait. I think the key to his success was that I am his pack leader. I would have mothers with small children approach, they would pet him and hug him etc. and I always thought that if i do not have complete control there could be a problem. I must say however that there has been two people he has not liked. He is rather well known in the community and still does the work. I am sure he is a loving dog and will come around.

[Cynthia P]

Have hope, they can learn to tolerate new people but they may never be completely reliable.

 

Check out Pam Dennison's Bringing Light to Shadow book. Shadow was/is a fear aggressive BC and I had the privilege of being the first person he bit...

 

Shadow has learned to tolerate new people and even like most of us; he has rally titles and agility titles plus he is the demo dog for her Aggresive dog camp. I realize not everyone is into desensitization so if you don't like that way of training, don't read Pam's books

 

I have an ACD that i had trained through Utility in obedience but I could never manage to get him to stay for a stand for exam in Novice; Than he started sheep herding and he liked that much more. That made him far less nervous and he felt he had a job. He was able to focus he was able to hang out with other dogs and people when herding. It was really a blessing because he is practically normal now. He has a moment now and than but his recall is outstanding and I don't really worry about him any more. He was also instantly ok with my sister, as are most of the nervous dogs that i've trained with.

 

Keep at it, sometimes they just seem to snap out of it, but train train train alternate behaviours. Make sure you aren't flooding him (which will only make it worse) but truely desensitizing him.

 

Edited to add: You also need to be your dog's leader, be on the look out for things that bug him, he should be looking to you for guidance, not making decisions on his own...his own decisions are scary; You don't need to dominate him, in my opinion, but all good things in life should come from you. And good things come from you when scary things are on the horizon.

 

cynthia

[Dixie_Girl]

If your dog is truly fear aggresive, then you need to alliviate the fear. My Skip is absolutely the most friendly dog with strangers of all kinds. Little kids running around screaming, etc. just =s fun to him! He will let me or DH do anything with him. Even things he hates! BUT, a couple weeks ago, DH was inside the yard trying to get the weed eater working. Skip HATES noise such as this. Skip was exhibiting all the signs of fear, but DH was engrossed in what he was doing and didn't notice. Finally Skip couldn't handle it anymore, and bit the hell out of DH! Yeah, he drew blood! I have been working on trying to desensitize him to noise. It is very slow going. Fear seems to be one of the strongest emotions dogs have. Once they develop a fear, it is very, very hard to get them over it. Look at thunder phobic dogs. My only suggestion would be to take him to a park or some such place where he can see lots of different people but you can stay well away from them. Well enough away that people won't be tempted to approach. Slowly encrease distance as his comfort level rises. When he can get fairly close, have a friend or relate, go to the park and look for volunteers (adults only for now please!) If you can't find any, have a friend that Scout normally would lunge at, walk by, ignoring him, but tossing a yummy, yummilicious treat and continue without stopping. This is indeed a lot of work, but it could very well have good results. That's the only thing I can think of, and I am getting this idea from someone else, but can't remember who suggested it for a people fearful dog. Good luck to you and Scout. I hope maybe you get other suggestions to try.

[phej]

I was told by a trainer once that this sort of behavior is not so much aggression toward other people but protection of his property, you. If this is correct and I have no idea he may see others as a threat to his property. Why would he accept another person and who is that person in relation to you. I have not had this problem although I have a young dog who is aggressive toward other dogs. If you are Scouts pack leader he should be taking your lead on whom to accept. Again I do not know but perhaps if you work on being more dominant over him he will come around. I once trained a young dog as a visit dog ( seniors homes etc. ). I made a deal with several local retailers including Walmart to bring the dog into the store at busy times. People would avoid him or come up to him. I taught him to sit and do nothing when he was approached until I gave him a command to respond. I would stand on his leash so he could not move. He would sit when someone approached and wait. I think the key to his success was that I am his pack leader. I would have mothers with small children approach, they would pet him and hug him etc. and I always thought that if i do not have complete control there could be a problem. I must say however that there has been two people he has not liked. He is rather well known in the community and still does the work. I am sure he is a loving dog and will come around.

 

DTrain, I know you mean well, but trying to solve EVERY issue a dog may have by dominating the dog may do more harm than good. Reading this and your other posts, it seems to me that you interpret all doggie behavior from the perspective of "the dog is trying to dominate me or someone else, I better put an end to it because I am the pack leader" (sorry if I misinterpreted). Of course you want the dog to look up to you for advice and direction, but why would you flood a fearful dog with all of the stimuli that make him/her go over the edge? If I am terrified of snakes, throwing me in a room full of vipers will not help... I may lose my mind and I will certainly not trust you again. The fact that you would be standing in the room with me and telling me "I am tellin' ya, if you listen to me, the snakes won't bite you" will do little to solve my phobia. On the other hand, putting me few yards away from a terrarium, and feeding me chocolate every time I calmly look at the snakes or make a step closer, may actually make a huge difference in how I feel about them. I am sure others can explain this better... just some food for thought.

 

Tracer, I really wish I had a magic pill for your puppy that would take all the demons away. But it sounds as though you are doing all the right things, and Scout is already doing much better. It will be a long process, but hopefully a rewarding one as well as you begin to see some progress.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

There is hope! I have one of those too! He may not be the dog you take to daycares and stuff, but you can make it manageable. I suggest reading "Leader of the Pack" by Patricia O'Connell (god, I should be her PR person I reccomend it so much! ) and "The other end of the Leash". Also Stanley Coren has some interesting books on how to read your dogs behavior and body language so you can anticipate what's going to happen before it happens. This has been a life saver on many occasions for me. Once you figure out his body language you will be amazed! I would also highly recommend, if there is one in your area, getting into a dog class for fearful/reactive dogs. I have had both a trainer (that I really liked) in my home and we are currently in classes. The trainer in my home helped in my home, now she is learning how to focus on me when there are other dogs around (small class of 3) and new people and she is doing fairly well. I am alos learning how to manage her properly so that she doesn't need to get stressed when other dogs are around. We are now able to sit accross the street from barking dogs and do some basic obedience, which is a huge step! I will also second what Dixie Girl said about having friends toss treats and stuff like that (it is covered in The other end of the leash). When we have new people in the house we all sit on the floor, no direct eye contact, maybe some yawning (calming signal to dogs) and lots, and lots of treats, within a few minutes she is giving strangers kisses. The Nothing In Life is Free (google search it) approach may help your situation a bit too, teaching your dog that YOU are in control will relax him a bit. If he knows that you are the alfa he will have way less to be stressed about. A lot of dogs are fearful because they feel the have had to take over the alfa postition and they really don't want it. This is all going to take a lot of time and effort on your part, but if you stick to your guns, you will see progress and you will be so proud. Of course all of this is provided he isn't on of those dogs that just has their wires crossed, but even then, it's still managable, but will be a lot more stress full and a lot more work. Don't give up!

 

Julie

[Root Beer]

I have posted before about my pup Scout who has fear aggression and won't go near anyone without lunging and growling and barking. We are working on desensitizing him around different inanimate objects and he is doing better. But will he ever just accept anyone without having to go through a lengthy intro. He is 8 mos old and will only accept one other person outside of my immediate family.

 

I was just wondering if anyone else had gone through something like this and had a wonderful outcome. He is the most loving dog that I have ever had, and I have had many in my life. I just wish others could see him the way I do.

 

Thank you!

 

Maybe and maybe not.

 

Until he was almost 3 years old, Speedy would not let anyone other than my husband or myself touch him. It didn't matter how many treats they plied him with, he would hide behind me if anyone ever tried to touch him. For a long time, he hid if anyone ever looked at him.

 

After many, many years Speedy has learned to be comfortable around people and he really, really likes them. He even lets some people touch him sometimes. But he likes to meet people on his own terms. It is important that the person wait until he makes "first contact" before they try to touch him.

 

He's not like other dogs, though. He's never going to have a normal comfort level, although most people can't really tell that unless they try to get into his space too soon. He really does pass for normal 95% of the time.

 

The bad news is that it can be a lifelong process. (Although it might not be)

 

The good news is that throughout that lifetime, your dog can just get better and better and better and there can be progress all the time.

 

Have you read Control Unleashed? I highly, highly, highly recommend it. The mat work and Look at That game could work wonders for your dog and for you.

[Jedismom]

I don't have any advice other than what's been discussed.

 

I just wanted to tell you that I love your picture of Scout. He is very handsome!

[DTrain]

DTrain, I know you mean well, but trying to solve EVERY issue a dog may have by dominating the dog may do more harm than good. Reading this and your other posts, it seems to me that you interpret all doggie behavior from the perspective of "the dog is trying to dominate me or someone else, I better put an end to it because I am the pack leader" (sorry if I misinterpreted). Of course you want the dog to look up to you for advice and direction, but why would you flood a fearful dog with all of the stimuli that make him/her go over the edge? If I am terrified of snakes, throwing me in a room full of vipers will not help... I may lose my mind and I will certainly not trust you again. The fact that you would be standing in the room with me and telling me "I am tellin' ya, if you listen to me, the snakes won't bite you" will do little to solve my phobia. On the other hand, putting me few yards away from a terrarium, and feeding me chocolate every time I calmly look at the snakes or make a step closer, may actually make a huge difference in how I feel about them. I am sure others can explain this better... just some food for thought.

 

Tracer, I really wish I had a magic pill for your puppy that would take all the demons away. But it sounds as though you are doing all the right things, and Scout is already doing much better. It will be a long process, but hopefully a rewarding one as well as you begin to see some progress.

 

I do mean well but perhaps I don't explain well. I would never throw a dog into a fear situation and I am reporting what I have been told. I did say that I have never experienced this with my dogs. I have had dogs nervous to go to stock but this is a different thing to work with. What I mean by dominance is that I want my dogs to see me as pack leader, dominance is the wrong word and at the moment I cannot think of a better word. The word is too strong. I am actually a very soft trainer and I train herding. I may speak strongly at times but I do advocate being the pack leader. In many ways this gives the dog confidence and helps the dog relax. I most certainly do not recommend dominance in any sort of harsh way nor do I suggest it applies in every situation. It may be the case with this dog the point I made according to the trainer. He had another way of looking at this and another point to make. That is not to say I have agreed with everything I have been told by other trainers. You do perhaps misunderstood to some degree and I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. In some of the work I do I see more often than not dogs that have taken the position of pack leader and this has lead to many problems including biting and attacks. This has led to problems for owners who report to me that they feel their dog is out of control and they have no idea what to do about it. I try to see this from oth sides. It is frankly the case that in some situations the dog has assumed the role of pack leader and therefore makes decisions on how to repond on behalf of his pack. Soem people will say that their dog is just being protective. Sorry, I will tone it down, Thanks again.

[Root Beer]

I may speak strongly at times but I do advocate being the pack leader. In many ways this gives the dog confidence and helps the dog relax.

 

This is really tricky word-wise! On one hand, it is important to be a leader - especially for a fearful dog. Speedy has overcome many of his fears because I've taught him that I have his back 100% and that he can trust me to see to his well being. By allowing him to remove himself from situations in which he was frightenend (emphasis - I'm in charge by giving permission for him to remove himself!) early on in his life, he learned to trust me and from there we were able to start the emotional "stretching" process in more challenging situations.

 

A fearful dog needs a leader who has his wits about him or her most of the time. I've also learned that some lapses of wits on the part of the leader are just par for the course!

 

On the other hands, words and phrases like "alpha", "in charge", "being in complete control" sound like dominance. Even when they are not intended that way!

 

It's a fine line with a dog who has generalized fears like fears of people or other dogs or both (sigh).

 

A fearful dog needs a leader who is 100% trusted. How that trust is built may differ from dog to dog, but it must be there.

 

The other day a friend of mine wanted to try heeling Speedy. He went with her as they heeled away from me across the building and it was beautiful! When she turned to come back, he took off and ran and came right to my side. As leader, I allowed him to come to his "safe place". Once in his "safe place", he bounced right back mentally and life went on as usual. He knew everything as OK once he touched base with me. If I were to have my friend heel him again, he would probably not break away from her because he learned that if he needs to leave her to come back to me, he can. Definitely not dominance type leadership, but leadership all the same!

 

Trying to explain that kind of leadership on the internet is tough. So much of the meaning can be lost in the typed word and it comes out sounding like force.

[Krambambuli]

Hi Tracer, and handsome Scout!

 

I have a dog who is extremely fearful of a variety of things, but mostly people. Sky is great with us, and she has accepted most of our relatives by now (we've had her for 9 months, and we don't see the relatives that often). There are a couple of friends that she also has accepted, and even approaches for a sniff, and maybe pet, by herself. But people we meet on our walks scare her to death. Her solution is to try and avoid them by passing as far away as she can get. Over the months that distance has decreased. If I stop and talk, she will crouch, tail between legs, at the very end of the leash. After a few minutes she relaxes a bit, but she stays away, hoping I will stop yakking.

 

A little while ago, now that in general she is a bit "braver", I have noticed that she gets aggressive towards people walking dogs on a leash (not dogs in fenced yards or at windows etc.). Her hair stands up, the tail goes up, she bark-growls, lunges ... I am not sure if this is a reaction to the dog or the person? She is otherwise very submissive to other dogs, and loves to play. Anyway, I tell her "no" firmly and try and get her attention back on me. I might make her sit or some other little obedience thing. Treats don't work with her. She is also extremely focused on the "intruder". If I can't calm her down, I walk away immediately. I've been thinking hard about what this new problem might be, and am curious to read more responses. She also reacts like that to lawn mowers, cars or other noisy things. We are working on all that, too, with a similar approach as I described. She is getting better, sometimes she puts herself in a sit already.

 

I would work on the lunging and barking, there are some great suggestions in the other posts already, and at this point not worry too much if Scout will ever accept people besides you. He might not. I don't expect my dog to ever run up to people with a smile and ask to be petted. And that's ok. I had to change my expectations. I understand that there is a certain disapointment when you find out that your dog has a problem. But I think if you can work with him and eventually change his demeanor, then it won't matter so much if he actually likes other people or not.

 

As you can also see from other posts, there is hope for Scout to turn around. He is still very young, he will change anyway as he matures, that might make a big difference. Enjoy him above all, but decide what you can absolutely not live with in his behavior, work on that, and don't get too hung up on what you thought he should be like. Believe me, changing my attitude helped me a lot!

 

Good luck!

Andrea

[Skyler]

As you can see there are others with experience in this matter. I too had a dog that would lunge and be ready to rip anyones throat out if we even just passed them by on a walk. I tried EVERY method I could think of to solve the problem with failure as I thought it was aggression.

 

Turns out that it was not aggression but protecting me even when I gave him objections. I will not post on this forum for the public to misinterpret tactics that finally worked. Some of them could get you bitten. But just know that there is hope and I would follow the avenue of him "owning" you and protecting you as either his property or simply protecting you as part of the family. Seek professional help.

 

But in the end, my dog that was this horrible monster of aggression turned out to be my heart dog. He actually turned out to be the best dog I have ever met and was 100% under voice command by 4-5 years old - never a failure to listen immediately. He also quickly learned to adore people after understanding what was expected and that he didnt have to protect me any longer. You may just have the most loyal and wonderful dog you could ever ask for on your hands under the guise of a vicious BC. Dont give up!

 

A tip though, wear his butt out daily to where he doesnt even have the energy to be aggressive - I mean he should be asking for mercy. Wait an hour and then take him places around others to work on training.

 

Good luck,

 

Ryan

[nancy in AZ]

I found my aussie, Boo as a stray and the moment I brought him home he wouldn't let anyone near me. His behavior was evidence of both fear aggression (striking at nether regions, darting forward and retreating quickly) and possession aggression. This occured after he spent 3 weeks at the pound without showing any aggression...he had nothing worth possessing there. I received some excellent guidance from a well-known certified dog behaviorist, and I took him to a vet/behaviorist who prescribed anti-anxiety meds which helped provide a degree of impulse control until I was able to successfully counter-condition the behavior. He has been off the meds for about nine months.

 

Boo is a very loving dog and craves affection from humans. He has come a long, long way. I can walk through a crowd without worrying about him acting out, but if he is one on one around a stranger I have a muzzle on him for everybody's protection. The average person does not understand that their actions and body language will increase the fear response of an anxious dog. Things such as standing directly in front, making direct eye contact, leaning over them or trying to pet them on top of the head. These, among others, are prime triggers to an anxious dog, and yet they are the most common approaches taken by most people upon meeting a dog.

 

I developed a system of desensitization that worked quite well for us to help him accept others. Since he was possessive of me and my home, I enlisted the aid of dog savvy friends who were willing to help. I dropped him off at their houses, muzzled, and left the premises. I gave instructions that they should not initiate contact, but let him determine when he was comfortable seeking contact with them. I suggested they avoid prolonged eye contact, refrain from addressing him, and go about their business ignoring him, or just relax in a chair for the first 15 minutes. I went back and picked him up about 1 1/2-2 hours later.

 

In every single case, my friends were each comfortable taking the muzzle off him within 10 minutes after I left. He was initially very concerned over my absence, and would pace and look out the window or run the fence line looking for me. Gradually his need for affection and reassurance would drive him to seek it from the only game in town--my volunteer friends. When I went back to get him I was careful to maintain a distance between myself and my friend, so as not to overface him and his need to possess me. I completely ignored him, compelling him to go to my friend if he wanted affection or treats. With some people, we did this exercise a series of times. That was how I was able to get him completely comfortable with my petsitter. I always began this exercise on neutral ground and once it was determined that he was comfortable there I would finish on his territory, i.e. at my house. Each time I would start him off muzzled and let my friend determine when the muzzle came off.

 

Boo has gotten to a point where he won't continuously react when a stranger comes over (I don't allow interaction). For instance, I can tell him to "quiet" and he wont rush the fence or continue barking, but he'll sit quietly. I am always watching him for signs of anxiety around people and only recently have allowed strangers (almost exclusivley women, with whom he feels much less intimidated) to pet him. He has been relaxed around strangers even when I have't issued instructions first,which is an indication of just how far he's come. Still, I know with certainty that he is a dog I will always have to closely monitor.

 

I also highly recommend Patricia McConnell's books, if only to give you a better ability to recognize the language dogs use to show they are anxious *before* they trigger, and also to give you some tools to divert his attention or replace the behavior.

[bc4ever]

We've never had that problem with Scooter--he loves people. Not too crazy about dogs, but is getting better and will tolerate them without freaking out now.

 

Something that worked for me, since he was a really young pup, as far as fear of things, was to walk up and touch the object of his fear, then tell him "Touch." He would sniff and touch whatever it was, then walk away. It's like if I'm not afraid of it, he isn't either. Sometimes if he hears a noise, he'll actually look at me to see if he's supposed to react. I just shrug my shoulders, shake my head and say in a matter of fact way, "It's alright. No big deal," and I can see him relax. For a Border Collie, he's pretty cool with noises, etc. Storms don't bother him--he sleeps right through them. We live near a park that is constantly putting on Civil War reenactments and shooting off cannons. No reaction. Fourth of July? No biggy. When I run the sweeper, sometimes I have to tell him to move out of the way!LOL! And no, he isn't deaf. He can hear a box of cookies being opened a mile away! LOL! I really think it has a lot to do with the vibes you're giving off, and you may not even realize you're doing it. Scooter can tell when I'm faking calm.

[DTrain]

This is really tricky word-wise! On one hand, it is important to be a leader - especially for a fearful dog. Speedy has overcome many of his fears because I've taught him that I have his back 100% and that he can trust me to see to his well being. By allowing him to remove himself from situations in which he was frightenend (emphasis - I'm in charge by giving permission for him to remove himself!) early on in his life, he learned to trust me and from there we were able to start the emotional "stretching" process in more challenging situations.

 

A fearful dog needs a leader who has his wits about him or her most of the time. I've also learned that some lapses of wits on the part of the leader are just par for the course!

 

On the other hands, words and phrases like "alpha", "in charge", "being in complete control" sound like dominance. Even when they are not intended that way!

 

It's a fine line with a dog who has generalized fears like fears of people or other dogs or both (sigh).

 

A fearful dog needs a leader who is 100% trusted. How that trust is built may differ from dog to dog, but it must be there.

 

The other day a friend of mine wanted to try heeling Speedy. He went with her as they heeled away from me across the building and it was beautiful! When she turned to come back, he took off and ran and came right to my side. As leader, I allowed him to come to his "safe place". Once in his "safe place", he bounced right back mentally and life went on as usual. He knew everything as OK once he touched base with me. If I were to have my friend heel him again, he would probably not break away from her because he learned that if he needs to leave her to come back to me, he can. Definitely not dominance type leadership, but leadership all the same!

 

Trying to explain that kind of leadership on the internet is tough. So much of the meaning can be lost in the typed word and it comes out sounding like force.

 

Well said Christine, thanks, I need a press agent. My dogs will return to me when they feel scared or threatened. I feel grateful that they do this. I like to think of us as a team. I don't mind the role of pack leader and they gorgive me know matter what I have done wrong. If I cam working with the dogs and something goes wrong for them or something frightens them I have no problem with them returning to me. I have also been told by another trainer not to let this happen, keep them working, make them work. Everybody has their own way and that way does not work for me, Thanks.

[mbc1963]

My dog has, over three years, gotten much more comfortable with strangers. For treats, he'll tolerate them touching him a bit. After a few introductions, he'll go to them and give kisses and let them pat him. In my (one-fearful-dog) experience, the time needed for calm introductions gets a tiny bit less and less each time.

 

I did months and months of "strangers = treats" with Buddy to get him to this point. I still have scary people (big men, mainly) give treats and ask him to do tricks, so that he can see them as being as safe and predictable as the rest of the world. Have you tried this? If you do, I suggest starting with the kind of people who don't scare the dog. Also one person at a time: more than one and Buddy still gets distrustful.

 

But, as someone else said, I don't plan on him being normal any time in the near future. He doesn't want anyone touching him over his head, though he'll allow it on his chest. He'll still dart away if someone moves too quickly.

 

I absolutely agree: read everything by Dennison, and read "Bringing Light to Shadow."

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

[esox]

Alex and I have been dealing with her aggression problems for some time. As one of the many helpful people here have told me it seems like a one step forward two step back process. This is what has been working for us. Two walks a day. In addition to playing. The walks have many benefits; we bond, we get exercise, she gets tired, and she sees new things on a daily basis. I found 2 commands very helpful; never mind and enough. I use never mind instantly when something catches her attention and I foresee bad results. Then she can walk on by without any problems. I use enough when I haven't been attentive enough and she is already involved in something. I have also found that her frisbee is a good distraction. Especially if the "threatening" individual throws it.

 

Another thing that works with her is the way I have people greet her. They don't. No hi cute puppy, no leaning down, no sniff my hand. They ignore her. When she is ready she will go sit by them.

 

Another thing I think is key is my reaction to a situation. If I have a (excuse my language) "oh shit" reaction she is immediately on edge. If I am calm and disinterested then she is interested, but not wound up with the what's wrong thing going on.

 

Hope some of this helps.

 

Esox

[Tracer]

Thank you so much for all of this wonderful advice! I know that it will be slow going but he is sooo worth it. I do find that if he is on the leash he will be more aggressive than if we were to put him in his X pen. In the pen he will bark but will eventually settle down. But not to the point of letting anyone near him. We are definitely the leader of the pack and he is very submissive to us.

 

We are going camping in July with my parents, I think that is one reason why I am so nervous. I would hate to have a problem, because he will just lash out and bite and draw blood. I plan on bringing his X pen and primarily keeping him in there, while reminding my parents not to make eye contact. They are such dog lovers that they are having a hard time with this also.

 

I can accept that he may never be a people dog but I would love to see him settle down a little and not freak out so much. Over time I hope it will happen. Thank you again, you have given us so much to think about and so much reading to do. I have the book "the other end of the leash" and tho I am not far into it I am finding it quite insightful.

 

Tracy

[Root Beer]

We are going camping in July with my parents, I think that is one reason why I am so nervous. I would hate to have a problem, because he will just lash out and bite and draw blood. I plan on bringing his X pen and primarily keeping him in there, while reminding my parents not to make eye contact. They are such dog lovers that they are having a hard time with this also.

 

I can relate! When Speedy was a puppy, he hid at the top of the stairs in our old house when my parents came to visit. They resented that and have always hated him.

 

When he got to be about 3 - 4 years old, he tried to make up to them in his own way, but they came on a bit too strong and he would bark and snarl at them.

 

This past Thanksgiving, at the age of 6, he truly accepted them for the first time. My mother thought he was Sammie (who wasn't home at the time) and she just treated him normally and he reciprocated. Later I found him lying under the futon where my father (who Speedy hated most of all!) was sitting!

 

It took 6 years, but he is finally OK with them and them with him.

[Maralynn]

We are going camping in July with my parents, I think that is one reason why I am so nervous. I would hate to have a problem, because he will just lash out and bite and draw blood. I plan on bringing his X pen and primarily keeping him in there, while reminding my parents not to make eye contact. They are such dog lovers that they are having a hard time with this also.

 

Dog lovers that aren't dog savy are the worst! Just tell them they'll get a cookie every time you see them ignoring the dog - maybe that will help

 

Does Scout like ball or frisbee games? When people wanted to pet Missy, I always brought a ball out and asked if they'd like to play with her. She was so into playing ball that she really didn't care who was throwing it. And she was so focused on the ball that she wouldn't notice if they were staring at her. Once the person got into the ball game they weren't trying to pet her, make eye contact, etc. If they did after a while it wasn't so bad because Miss would have found out by that time that they were not really a threat and were a source of fun.

 

You might want to think about getting a crate that could be partially covered as well. Then he could have a safe den and the covering would help prevent eye contact.

 

When I take my dogs to family gatherings they are either on leash directly supervised by me, playing a ball game with someone, or in the back of my car where they are safe from my dog loving but not always dog savy extended family.

[Barb Scott]

Rootbeer writes:

This is really tricky word-wise! On one hand, it is important to be a leader - especially for a fearful dog. Speedy has overcome many of his fears because I've taught him that I have his back 100% and that he can trust me to see to his well being.

 

This was almost an exact quote I heard at a local Kennel Club Dog Days Event today. Unfortunately, I was behind the woman (with a BC) who said this. I guess she didn't notice that her BC had her nose up the butt of the BC my husband was walking just ahead of her! Fortunately, Zip is the most easy going BC we have ever owned (out of 8) and didn't even bother to turn around to see who was sniffing him. If you have your dog's back, better make sure you have it's front also. I will admit the woman was very careful when we approached her from the front, but with a more reactive dog the damage would have been done.

Barb S

[Tracer]

I had often wondered if a stranger started throwing the ball whether he would still bark or just play along with the ball game. It would be interesting to try.

 

We have tried the treat throwing thing but he isn't interested in treats. He becomes to fixated on the stranger and will pee everywhere, we have a heck of a time trying to distract him enough to change his focus.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I think you should try the ball thing. If he's not food motivated, but toy motivated it's worth a shot. I wouldn't start out right away with a complete stranger however. Start with some one he knows or sorta knows and slowly go on from there. When you get to the stranger part, make sure you tell them no direct eye contact and no smiling at the begining....those are very rude things in doggy world and could be what makes him go off in the first place.

 

j

[Root Beer]

I had often wondered if a stranger started throwing the ball whether he would still bark or just play along with the ball game. It would be interesting to try.

 

We have tried the treat throwing thing but he isn't interested in treats. He becomes to fixated on the stranger and will pee everywhere, we have a heck of a time trying to distract him enough to change his focus.

 

The thing that you will want to learn to look out for is his "threshold". That is the point at which he becomes fixated and starts to pee. You won't be able to distract him to change focus at that point. Your best bet at that point is to put distance between him and the stranger.

 

Instead of having a stranger throw a ball at first, you might try to set up a situation where a stranger is in the picture, but is far enough away from your dog that he does not go over threshold. He might notice the stranger, but should still be able to function mentally. At that point, I would play ball with the dog. Over time - weeks, not days - I would move that ball game closer to the stranger. If the dog gets fixated, I would break off and move further away. When the dog is truly OK with being 3 - 5 feet from the stranger, I might have someone try throwing the ball, but then immediately reward the dog by putting distance between him and that person!

 

You can use increasing distance (between him and the stranger) as a reward for getting close to someone, but not until he has a certain comfort level somewhat close to a stranger and can stay under threshold when closer to people.