Dog Runs too big

[Debbie Meier]

I have a young male, almost 2 years old that I'm having problems getting him in, he runs out way to wide to be able to facilitate a drive, he has never been pushed out from the stock but he knows that the further out he is the better chance he has at holding against a draw. I try to command him in and sometimes I can get him to come in to the proper distance for a bit but soon is way out again. If I do fetching excersises he has plenty of pace and rate, but when I begin to factor myself out he either makes a mistake and upsets the apple cart or just starts getting bigger and bigger, he is effective in holding the sheep, just not creating motion. He knows his verbal commands, but when he gets that big he tends to get sticky which is making me think he is getting out that big so he can succeed in doing what he wants, which makes me ponder a lack of obedience and he needs to come in when I tell him to. I tried to make him come in today when he got way out there, and he just got bigger and ended up leaving me and the sheep, but I figure it is because he got so far out of contact, I could not get around him to push him back in and he refused to obey and come in.

 

Yesterday when I had him on a small group of really quiet sheep, I could flank him either way drive the sheep away from me and bring them back, at that point he stayed at a pretty decent distance, today I took him out on a larger group of sheep that wanted to do more of what they wanted in that same area, he was out so big that he was almost a speck out in that same field. It's almost like he is running the extreames, when he losses his confidence in his ability to control the sheep on the flight zone he gets way out there and just uses his presence, unless I'm out away from the sheep then he dives and grips

 

I've tried using him in my day to day chore work in hopes of relaxing him and building his confidence with more work but it ends up to be very frustrating, he just gets more fixated in holding the draws running hard from draw to draw sliding into different balance positions, there's no lack of athletic ability.

 

Do I just need to ease up on him and let him mature more?

 

Deb

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Just starts getting bigger and bigger, he is effective in holding the sheep, just not creating motion.

 

I'll be very curious as to the answer to this as well. I've got an older dog who has this habit so ingrained that he actually will "give" now when he's stressed and give up contact completely. I've never put pressure on him myself but I got him rather late in life. He's a nice stylish dog with lots of eye, but very stubborn about stopping (Nat. Ch. Bill son, Burtersett Lad grandson).

 

Thanks!

[Debbie Meier]

Update....today I went out with the group of ewes and lambs, I worked on looking hard at what was triggering the huge flanks, it seems to be triggered when I ask for an off balance flank when the sheep are not settled, so today I really tried hard to make sure the sheep were not on the move when I transitioned from a walk up to a flank, if he started to get big I gave him a walk up command in hopes of getting him to think in, if I tried to stop him or get his attention via a correction it would drive him out bigger. When I did have him drive the sheep I was careful to be sure he was keeping them balanced and slow, it seems that when the sheep get driving to fast he gets nervous and just wants to run hard to the front to stop them and get the motion to stop. After that he is real tough to get back around to a position to restart the drive, he knows it will cause the sheep to move and he strongly wants them to stay put. Trying to stop him from going around to the head makes him get out bigger the next time.

 

Deb

[Vergil Holland]

I have a young male, almost 2 years old that I'm having problems getting him in, he runs out way to wide to be able to facilitate a drive, he has never been pushed out from the stock but he knows that the further out he is the better chance he has at holding against a draw. I try to command him in and sometimes I can get him to come in to the proper distance for a bit but soon is way out again. If I do fetching excersises he has plenty of pace and rate, but when I begin to factor myself out he either makes a mistake and upsets the apple cart or just starts getting bigger and bigger, he is effective in holding the sheep, just not creating motion. He knows his verbal commands, but when he gets that big he tends to get sticky which is making me think he is getting out that big so he can succeed in doing what he wants, which makes me ponder a lack of obedience and he needs to come in when I tell him to. I tried to make him come in today when he got way out there, and he just got bigger and ended up leaving me and the sheep, but I figure it is because he got so far out of contact, I could not get around him to push him back in and he refused to obey and come in.

 

Yesterday when I had him on a small group of really quiet sheep, I could flank him either way drive the sheep away from me and bring them back, at that point he stayed at a pretty decent distance, today I took him out on a larger group of sheep that wanted to do more of what they wanted in that same area, he was out so big that he was almost a speck out in that same field. It's almost like he is running the extreames, when he losses his confidence in his ability to control the sheep on the flight zone he gets way out there and just uses his presence, unless I'm out away from the sheep then he dives and grips

 

I've tried using him in my day to day chore work in hopes of relaxing him and building his confidence with more work but it ends up to be very frustrating, he just gets more fixated in holding the draws running hard from draw to draw sliding into different balance positions, there's no lack of athletic ability.

 

Do I just need to ease up on him and let him mature more?

 

Deb

 

SOunds like a confidence issue. This type of dog is extremely hard to work with. Keep trying to hold it in, keep trying to build confidence, however, you may want to consider a different dog depending on your needs and situation.

[Debbie Meier]

SOunds like a confidence issue. This type of dog is extremely hard to work with. Keep trying to hold it in, keep trying to build confidence, however, you may want to consider a different dog depending on your needs and situation.

 

 

Thanks Vergil, I want to learn as much as I can from this guy. I'll keep working on little successes with him and try not to get him in too deep.

 

Deb