Walking Two Dogs

[Skyler]

I have trained both of my dogs to walk on a leash separately and they do very well heeling. Even at 7 months and the other at a year they have really given special attention to me when walking so there is no tripping and left, right and english turns are a snap. Sure, they still need work but they show good attention and never pull, staying by my side.

 

However, I have tried every way I know possible to walk them together and I cannot achieve the same result. I have tried splitters/couplers, two leashes, one dog on each side and a Gentle Leaders. The problem is that they end up paying attention to each others stride rather than mine much of the time. If they are on a splitter, my youngest always has to be ahead of the other and you can see the problem there.

 

So, my question is how did you do it? I KNOW that I am missing something so basic its gonna smack me like a ton of bricks but I am at a loss. I am usually very good at seeing these things but not on this one. I dont feel getting them more solid separately is going to cure the issue as its mostly a competition one between the two. They dont drag me down the street or anything but they refuse to heel in good position and the leash is not always slack like it should be.

 

Advice please!!!

 

Thanks,

 

Ryan

[WyoBC]

I'm not much help on this since I only have one dog, but when I walk two dogs at the shelter I always have separate leashes and just keep each dog on either side. It always works pretty well, if they start twisting up their leashes, I stop, pull them apart, and move them back into the heel postion. It may take many many times of doing that, but they seem to figure out that they need to stay on their side to get anywhere. Either that or they get get tired of each other and just enjoy the walk

 

Have you tried walking them on their own leash, but on the same side? That way they can't get tangled up but they're walking together.

[Skyler]

I think I have tried it all but they still dont do so well - its not a tangle problem but who is going to be in the lead problem between the dogs. Its not "horrible" but it needs constant correction rather than the worry-free walking with just one of them. Ive tried two leashes same and either side, couplers/splitters, Gentle Leaders, and the rest. The problem is mostly Koda wanting to be the top dog but Zak has his moments as well. Koda just cant stay side by side and has to be a head in front. Im really considering very short leads (which I havent tried) that are meant for one hand to completely restrict the distance and the handle might make it easier than trying to choke up on two leather leads. Maybe directly using a brace lead would work better than the coupler but I dont see much room for improvement there.

 

I dont mind walking them one on one but I really want to enjoy the walk as a "pack"

 

Ryan

[Lenajo]

Can you walk the dogs individual off leash with as much attention as you get on? Don't break the leash laws , just practice this in appropriate environments. Once it's not the leash that's keeping the primary hook up to you, but the mind, it will be easier to expect the 2 to do well together. The leash should be your back up control, not your primary control.

 

Also start practice heeling on both sides - I find dogs that are taught this are more flexible to other ways of heeling - multiple groups for example. Have an "attention" heel command, and a chill out and follow one. Dogs that heel "up and prancing" are a pita to work with in a pair. You want them to be more concerned with staying behind the plane of your hip/shoulder and walking straight and quiet. Often I start this by extending my arm out and saying "uh huh", then turning into the dog to remind them that I want them back. Later that becomes a warning wave "get back", and then a hard glance and a growl.

 

When you start the together work, use 2 leashes, and keep them on even when you add the coupler between the 2 dogs for a while. You need to be able to correct individually. Consider a prong collar for any pulling (not on the coupler!) - you need power steering when you are dividing you strength between 2 dogs. The prong allows for a "flick" of the finger correction for the forger.

 

I walk with up to 3 for exercise, and sometimes up to 8 when I travel. It's an art, and the foundation should be the dog that doesn't need the leash to make him remember to be good.

[Pearse]

It takes time and experimentation to work out the orders.

 

I routinely run with three dogs on leashes. Two are on a waist belt leash with a coupler and they need to be in a specific order with a specific one on the inside, otherwise there are lead issues and one likes to be closer to my side than the other. On a run, they run directly in front of me. The third dog, I trained to run on the right, and he runs with his nose at my right heel of his own accord.

 

I don't worry about them being at heel so much because it is impossible to negotiate sidewalks and paths with the four of us abreast. Instead, I focus on them not pulling and have taught them commands to negotiate traffic ("get out" for move to my left and "this way" for move to my right). However, when I need them to walk at heel they will but it took some fiddling around with the order and can still end up in a tangle if someone stops to lift their leg.

 

They are all better at heeling off leash than on. Unfortunately, all that gets you in the city is a $200 fine.

 

Pearse

[SoloRiver]

Er, do they have to be at heel on casual walks? I don't expect mine to heel unless I specifically ask for it (well OK, only one of them knows a formal heel anyway). I let my three walk where they will on four-foot leads and they (or should I say, Solo) keep the order without much input from me.

[powerfulgazelle]

I have trained both of my dogs to walk on a leash separately and they do very well heeling. Even at 7 months and the other at a year they have really given special attention to me when walking so there is no tripping and left, right and english turns are a snap. Sure, they still need work but they show good attention and never pull, staying by my side.

 

However, I have tried every way I know possible to walk them together and I cannot achieve the same result. I have tried splitters/couplers, two leashes, one dog on each side and a Gentle Leaders. The problem is that they end up paying attention to each others stride rather than mine much of the time. If they are on a splitter, my youngest always has to be ahead of the other and you can see the problem there.

 

So, my question is how did you do it? I KNOW that I am missing something so basic its gonna smack me like a ton of bricks but I am at a loss. I am usually very good at seeing these things but not on this one. I dont feel getting them more solid separately is going to cure the issue as its mostly a competition one between the two. They dont drag me down the street or anything but they refuse to heel in good position and the leash is not always slack like it should be.

 

Advice please!!!

 

Thanks,

 

Ryan

 

Ryan,

 

Kip and Sollers, when they walk together, walk on: Gentle Leaders + a GOOD splitter + a 6 ft leash with the added "traffic handle" loop near the dog's end. The "good" splitter we found has WIDELY adjustable length---both the length of the whole thing and length of each dog's "side". We find that having the length of the splitter at about the halfway mark and Kip's "side" about 1.5-2x as long as Sollers' side works best. This way, Kip, the steadier, less-forging dog is the lead dog, and Sollers doesn't have enough length to tangle things up. Sollers walks about a half a body length behind Kip, to the right side. (Sollers' nose is about at Kip's middle when walking.) I tend to hold the lead with the loop around my right wrist, lead across my body, dogs on my left. I take the "traffic handle" up in my left hand as needed, as Kip is at times reactive to other dogs when on-leash.

 

We had used a cheaper splitter that was less adjustable. Sollers did us the "favor" of shredding that. The good splitter has been a real help.

 

BTW, Kip is a 1.5 yr old BC. Sollers is a 50+ pound mix 9 mos old pup with plenty of "boing".

[MaggieDog]

I hate couplers, so my two girls have always been walked on separate leashes. I can tug on leashes as necessary, but in general they are fine, though I don't insist on a heel. Maggie naturally hangs back most of the time so that helps. They each picked their own side and when we stick to those positions that eases things as well.

 

Do you have anyone who could help you out by walking one dog while you walk the other and practice heeling with the other dog as distraction? I bet what's happening is that one on one they get more reinforcement for proper behavior (heel) but with two that drops off and thus they are less motivated to perform.

[Allie Oop]

This post made me smile. Because we live in the city, we "leash walk" Allie and Rusty every day, sometimes twice a day. (Except after dark when they run like little hooligans.) It's been interesting working out the best way to do it as Allie was a lurcher and sleddog on a leash and Rusty more a "stop-and-smell-the-pee-spots" kind of guy. Poor Rusty kept getting dragged when he was trying to do his thing.

 

We also tried the tandem leash thingies, the splitters, etc. What ended up working best for us, however, is just the two old fashioned separate 6 ft. leashes (with loop handles) held in the same hand. Sometimes Allie goes ahead a bit and Rusty lags behind, but for the most part they match each other's pace pretty well and it is not the vaudeville routine it used to be.

 

I don't try to make them heel on the walk, unless we are passing a pedestrian or another dog and they are both very good with verbal commands. They are also trained to sit at every intersection/corner until given a release signal or command, even on leash. I actually enjoy walking with them now, so I think that practice and training is the best advice.

 

Good luck!

[Jedismom]

When we walk together as a pack, Jedi and Cadi seem to like to check in with each other every once in a while and know where the other is. So when I walk them, I allow no pulling, but I do allow them their head and shoulders ahead so they can do that. Any more than that and I find they start to take advantage, and then I have to deal with tangling and tripping.

[Tranquilis]

I learned this from one of the volunteers at the Rescue: Tie one dog off on a short lead to your waist. Take the other dog on a longer lead, in your hand, on the same side. Works pretty well, in my experience. Minimal tangling, good enough control, not too many hassles.

[Tip's Mum]

Our situation is identical to Deb's. Both my dogs will heel on command, but when we leash walk I have little use for a heel unless there's a serious distraction approaching. Over time, we've all settled into our walking routine. I actually juggle the dreaded flexis (no coupler). Although I won't tolerate pulling, Mick takes the lead, which allows him to sniff/pee at will and still keep pace. Tip is content to stay near my side except for her occasional alpha marking. Both dogs will wait patiently on the other and check in with each other and me. I use "let's go" if they lag too much and "wait" if we need to prepare for heeling. We've worked out a nice balance... don't ask me what I'll do when Calli arrives as a 6 month old!

[painted_ponies]

I learned this from one of the volunteers at the Rescue: Tie one dog off on a short lead to your waist. Take the other dog on a longer lead, in your hand, on the same side. Works pretty well, in my experience. Minimal tangling, good enough control, not too many hassles.

 

Oooh, thanks Tranq! I periodically try walking Faith and Violet at the same time but Faith always turns it into a train wreck. I don't care if she heels as long as she doesn't tangle up the leashes and drag me and Violet into the next county. Violet is lovely on leash, so I'll try tying her to me and then I'll have both hands free to deal with Goofus.

[lrayburn]

If you are really set on having them both walk next to you, you will need to retrain them to walk politely together the same way you trained them to walk politely separately. When I train a dog a new skill individually, I usually have to retrain it in the pack setting.

 

If you aren't set on them walking next to you, I find that my dogs walk better as a pack if I let them walk ahead on 6-foot leads. They are pretty good walking next to me alone but I have a real hard time getting them to walk next to me in a group (we also take up the entire road). I only use a Gentle Leader on Ben, everyone else walks fine off their collar. I won't use a coupler on Ben with the Gentle Leader and I can't couple anyone to Nellie (who can get aggressive) so I use four separate leads. They seem to walk best in a certain order - from left to right it's Pip Squeak, Nellie then Ben, with Winston walking next to me on the left (behind the rest of the pack). I have minimal leash tangling when I maintain the right order.

 

So for what its worth, you might want to consider letting the dogs walk ahead and reinforce a particular order (Ex. Koda stays on the left, Zac on the right) or retrain walking politely on lead with both of them together.

Lisa

[2 Devils]

If the older dog does not care if the younger one takes the lead then why worry about who is leading? I don't worry about who leads as long as there is no pulling and no altercations amongst the dogs. I can walk 4 dogs without issue and they take turns on who leads. I also walk them all on separate leashes. I don't walk them often but when I do, the above is our walk.

[Jedismom]

So for those of you who let your dogs walk ahead....I take it you don't buy into the whole idea of, if they walk ahead of you you're not the pack leader? What's been your experience?

[lrayburn]

So for those of you who let your dogs walk ahead....I take it you don't buy into the whole idea of, if they walk ahead of you you're not the pack leader? What's been your experience?

 

Nope. They just aren't allowed to drag me down the road.

Lisa

[2 Devils]

Dragging me down the road is a no-no. There are different walks.

 

When we are at flyball tourneys or practice - there is only the potty walk which means they can only find a place to potty. There is no play time since we are usually either about to go race or we are done for the day and the dogs need to settle and get ready for bed.

 

Then there is we are out for a stroll walk. On this walk they can walk, sniff, etc...

 

Then there is the obedient walk. This means we practice heels, sits, etc... We may mix this one into the out for the stroll walk or may not. I like to keep the dogs guessing.

 

Plus sometimes I will only walk one dog at a time and may only take one the entire time while the others stay home and don't get a walk that day.

 

I enjoy having individual time with my dogs.

[Tranquilis]

So for those of you who let your dogs walk ahead....I take it you don't buy into the whole idea of, if they walk ahead of you you're not the pack leader? What's been your experience?

Not in the least.

My past dogs, and all the dogs at the Rescue, know I'm in charge, and that's that. Mind you, I'm a big, strong, hairy guy - I come with a lot of advantages when it comes to establishing dominance. Even the hardcases come around eventually, though they sometimes need a lot more work.

[Bordercentrics]

As for walking ahead (for Jedi's Mom) - no you don't always have to be in the lead if you are the pack leader. As a case in point, our definite alpha dog ALWAYS chooses to be the LAST one out the door, into the car, etc, so she can see what everyone else is doing. Casual walks are just that - they should be more for fun than for training. You can't expect a dog to heel all the time. You need to give them time to do "dog stuff" like sniffing around, which they can't do when at heel. Our Ruby is very soft and deferential to me at all times, but leash her up for a walk and she goes at warp speed. It is as if she was born for outrums and must do them in every possible circumstance. The important thing is that they will come to you when called. I walk Ruby on a 30 foot long line wheever possible, but she always checks in with me when I call her. Steward walks Meg and Molly on separate Flexi leads together. Their natural pace is the same. I would never attempt to walk Ruby with either of them. I think pairing dogs who move at the same pace is the secret to walking them together.

 

Some obedience trials have a Brace class, in which the handler works two dogs together. This is heeling at a very advanced level. I wouldn't expect a pup and a youngster to be able to do it for quite a long time. I would say that just getting them to "loose lead walk" at the same time should be your goal for now, but it will take some practice. It will probably be easier once they are used to just walking together casually.

 

Kathy Robbins

[Bo Peep]

I do obedience with both of my dogs. When I have them on leash together, it's a whole different story. They are NOT on choke chains- so they KNOW it's not for "show". We walk at a different pace, much slower, and yes, they are allowed in front of me, to a certain extent. No pulling. I use separate leashes. Both on the left side.

I agree with Kathy Robbins, as I have seen the brace competitions. You dog walking a little ahead of you has nothing to do with "pack leader" problems. When I practice, I use one dog at a time and it is very formal. When it is just walks around the neighborhood, it is different. Border collies are smart enough to know the difference.

Also, another question- are my casual walks hurting my obedience training? Don't want to hijack this thread- sorry!

[Skyler]

Definately some useful information contained in many of the posts here - so thanks!

 

For heeling I never expect my dogs to have their heads behind my knee or dead even with it. I have always prefered to have the neck be even with the knee as I can see them more easily with just a glance of the eye. A dogs peripheral vision is much much greater than ours and the same heeling results can be obtained in this position. I also dont train my dogs for a "prance" heel as I have never had a need or desire for it although it sure does look pretty. A straight ahead movement is sufficient. When seeking my dogs attention in that manner it would be on the frisbee field and Koda gives me more attention with a disc in hand than I could ask for. The little guy just quivers whenever I pull one out and he is absolutely fixated.

 

What I do expect is absolutely free movement on my part which would entail free turns in either direction as well as stopping/slowing and reversing direction and all on a loose leash. For me, when its time to walk its time to walk and that means they must be back in a general heel position allowing me those free movements of turns. As for sniffing I do sometimes pause if they indicate something really good needs their noses attention - other times I keep walking so they know its not their choice to stop and start. However, we almost always set up a destination to reach where they are free to roam and sniff until their little puppy hearts are content Many times its the neighborhood park or if we go to the public park in the country just down the road (dont care for the city ones to much) its generally a midway point in the walk. We do hit trails often and they are allowed much greater freedom there. There are just to many "good" smells on the trails to not let them sniff as they choose. After all, critters and deer dookie are almost irresistable!

 

One poster mentioned the correction issue problem with splitters/couplers (whichever term you use) and they are correct. It is almost impossible to correct one without the other getting some form of correction as well. I think the two leash setup is probably going to be the best to stick with using some advice given here and perhaps someone I know can use the three versions of couplers I have purchased from adjustables (as mentioned) to two smaller lengths of fixed ones....or I could just add it to my collection of training collars which I dont even want to figure up the total spent on over the years THAT would be an interesting post in itself...LOL.

 

Ryan

[Bo Peep]

Definitely some useful information contained in many of the posts here - so thanks!

 

 

What I do expect is absolutely free movement on my part which would entail free turns in either direction as well as stopping/slowing and reversing direction and all on a loose leash. For me, when its time to walk its time to walk and that means they must be back in a general heel position allowing me those free movements of turns. Ryan

Yes, I, myself have a requirement for MY free moving. I'm in charge and I lead the direction. But, a casual walk is different than an upbeat heel position. When I practice, I am moving very fast, quick turns, the dog is always on alert. But for walks around the neighborhood, I really doubt that I would need a leash, it's required. My dogs take their heel and stay near me and no problem. I just tuck the leashes basically in my back pocket.

[Skyler]

Also, another question- are my casual walks hurting my obedience training? Don't want to hijack this thread- sorry!

 

Alright Bo Peep, no hijacking!....Just Kidding! This is a very good question and I have tended to notice after working with both dogs that when starting off with just one they tend to walk ahead until corrected. Granted, the dogs I have now are very young and not solid with years of practice as some of the others here but I too think it may actually confuse them. A seriously trained adult may be different but at least with pups I think consistency should be heavily weighed in considering this question.

 

When Skyler was alive he was so good at heeling that I too didnt even hold on to the leash and it was there for legal reasons. We would walk downtown and I would just drape it over my shoulder so it would be in easy grabbing distance in case of an emergency startle or something. It will take time but I am looking forward to that kind of skill with my two dogs now. When we used to go backpacking he wouldnt even be on a leash - miles from nowhere there wasnt anyone to complain about it. At that point he would get ahead as he knew it was okay to do so but never did he get out more than 20 feet or so without stopping, turning and looking at me with a wagging tail and eyes that said, "Hurry up! Theres probably something really cool around the next bend!!!"

[Tassie]

In answer to Bo Peep -- I can't see how casual walking could possibly weaken your formal obedience heel - unless you actually used the same verbal cue, which I'm sure you don't. My guys have "walk nicely" which means a casual walk - with permission to sniff sometimes, and I'll wait for them - or if we're power walking, then it means they're either in front or to the side - I have two separate leashes. Like Melanie and others, I might ask for a closer position in 'traffic'.

 

The formal obedience heel position here is dog's shoulder level with and close to handler's left knee - or for heelwork to music - could be right knee. That's a separately trained behaviour, as far as I'm concerned - and the dogs clearly know it. I never ask for it for long periods of time.