What to do...

[Ace]

OK, so I have had rush now, for almost 3 months, and she is a joy in every aspect. We have had a few rough patches, she had food aggression, and a lot of house breaking issues. She is an extremely fast learner, I love this dog to death.

 

However, I havent been able to fully socialize her. All I can do is walks around my neighborhood, stopping to let people pet her. I take her to the store with me when my mom goes and allows me to come with her. Both my parents work 12+ hours, and I cant drive yet, so any heavy socialization, I cant really do. I cant take her to the dog park, or other places. Only whats in walking distance, and for whatever reason I dont think it has been working.

 

We went to petsmart on friday, to pick Rush up a new collar, as her first one was getting to small. I thought it was the perfect place to take both of the dogs for them to be around other dogs. Rush has been around the 7 year old lab next door, and thats it. We saw a lab puppy around her same age, and she seemed egger to approach it, so we did. As soon as the puppy wanted to play her tail went down and she started to snarl, not growl, just show her teeth. I ended up pulling her away RIGHT before she snapped. She has always been so playful around Bear, and people, I never thought this possible. She looked really uncomfortable around the puppy. Thankfully the owners of the puppy understood completely, and didnt get mad at me. Rush is perfect around people, very submissive, but when it comes to dogs she gets kind of aggressive. I dont know what it is, or how to fix it.

 

I do admit I started to freak out a little, after she first snapped, whenever we would approach another puppy, or that same puppy. After I realized it, I did the whole calm thing, and it didnt really work. I would like to do agility with her, and herding later on too, so I would really love any advice on how to cure this. I dont want her snapping at random puppies who just want to play.

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Diane

[Skyler]

I would ask your parents if there was any way possible to get her into puppy socialization classes at least once a week. I know they work alot but could they at least run you to Petsmart once a week for an hour? Talk to them and explain the issue and see what they say. Present it seriously and tell them "I think its the responsible thing to do."...parents like that kind of verbage

 

The thing to remember too is that no matter how much you socialize your dog with other dogs there are going to be dogs that they just dont like and this may have been one of them. Put it into the perspective that there are people you just cant stand for one reason or another. Also, dont think that one occurence is the end of it all - its not. My puppy loves most dogs but some he just wont tolerate.

 

Other things to consider are, if she does it only on a leash and in strange places where she would already be on edge - you stated basically that she doesnt get out much. Was the dogs wag of the tail a large sway or a stiffer shorter sway? Wagging tails also dont mean happy all of the time and can signal nervousness or aggression. There is a ton to learn about dog body language that doesnt seem obvious on the surface and a flick of this or a puff of that can mean the dog asserted a dominant posture and your dog didnt care for it. It may have appeared innocent on the surface but your pup my have known better.

 

Dont give up. And if you see more of this behavior I wouldnt suggest a doggy park anyway. Controlled conditions are key. If your dog is loose 50 ft. away from you off leash you cant control what will happen. In a socialization class you have the resources and space mgmt. to control and shape the behavior.

 

Good luck

[WyoBC]

My BC isn't all that crazy about other dogs either. He'll be nice to other BC's most of the time but labs and pits are OUT. He seems to do fine with agility pratice and herding. Most of the time at agility your not around other dogs to much. People pretty much keep to them selves if they have their dog out. There's a "no eye contact" with your dog/other dogs rule with most agility people anyhow. That's why people don't always talk when they're running their dogs. It keeps their dog focused on what their doing. When I'm not running I crate him so I can talk and walk around without bothering anyone else. The same goes for most herding people. So I really don't think that she'll have that much of a problem. As long as she has a good recall or stayes with you she should be alright. You could also get one of the half leashes to move her around. That way she won't have a leash on while she is running, but a short leash if you need to grab her

 

Black Jack loves PetCo, but only if no one else is in there. To many dogs in a store is to crazy for us anyway. So don't feel to bad that she got mad in there. It can be a very stressful place.

[Jack & Co.]

My dog can't stand Petco or Petsmart. There are always too many ill-mannered dogs in there usually on Flexi leashes and they charge right up to him. I finally wised up and quit taking him.

[Root Beer]

We went to petsmart on friday, to pick Rush up a new collar, as her first one was getting to small. I thought it was the perfect place to take both of the dogs for them to be around other dogs. Rush has been around the 7 year old lab next door, and thats it. We saw a lab puppy around her same age, and she seemed egger to approach it, so we did. As soon as the puppy wanted to play her tail went down and she started to snarl, not growl, just show her teeth. I ended up pulling her away RIGHT before she snapped. She has always been so playful around Bear, and people, I never thought this possible. She looked really uncomfortable around the puppy. Thankfully the owners of the puppy understood completely, and didnt get mad at me. Rush is perfect around people, very submissive, but when it comes to dogs she gets kind of aggressive. I dont know what it is, or how to fix it.

 

I do admit I started to freak out a little, after she first snapped, whenever we would approach another puppy, or that same puppy. After I realized it, I did the whole calm thing, and it didnt really work. I would like to do agility with her, and herding later on too, so I would really love any advice on how to cure this. I dont want her snapping at random puppies who just want to play.

 

What you describe here doesn't sound like aggression to me. It sounds like your dog is trying to communicate.

 

Whether Rush likes the lab next door or not is irrelevant. A strange dog is a strange dog. Rush might have wanted more space to meet the new dog. Or, he just might not have wanted the puppy in his face. Some dogs don't like puppies.

 

Have you ever met someone who immediately got into your space? If you have, you know how uncomfortable that can be - especially if the person is very "in your face". If backing away doesn't work, sometimes we have to ask those types of people to please take a step back.

 

Dogs do that by showing their teeth and snarling. And when the dog is on leash, he or she might not feel that moving away is an option and so the lip lift and the snarl is a way for the dog to say to the other, "get out of my space".

 

This isn't aggression, nor something that you need to "cure". You can probably help him become more tolerant of strange dogs in his face by gradually exposing him to new dogs at his comfort level.

 

I would try having Rush meet older, more calm dogs at first. I would keep his leash loose and allow him to move away from the dog if he or she wanted to. Let him move in closer when he feels comfortable doing so.

 

If Rush begins to meet older dogs with a greater comfort level, you might try puppies again. Personally, I don't force my older dogs to interact with puppies. Maddie likes puppies, but Speedy hates them, and Dean doesn't seem to like them, either. It is not my dog's job to teach strange puppies manners, so I simply don't make them hang out with puppies.

 

I also recommend a class for your dog, especially if you want to do Agility. In Agility, dogs don't have to be comfortable with strange dogs in their faces, but they need to be comfortable around dogs in motion.

 

If you want to try a book, I recommend, "Control Unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt. Her "There's a Dog in Your Face" game would probably be just the thing for Rush.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

It's not the end of the world. Like others have said, some dogs just don't like some dogs. I have also read the some BC's are put off by the more "boxy" breeds like the bully breeds because of their "puffed up" appearance. BC's just seem to be more sensitive.

 

Personally, Daisy doesn't like other dogs at all. We are working on it through reactive dog classes and so far so good, we are learning that it's ok if other dogs are around. She is usually really annoyed with the lab types at the park because they seem to be super duper excited about life in general and want to be friends with everyone!! She doesn't like it when they rush into her! You are lucky that your's is still a pup. I agree that puppy classes, even the ones at petsmart, would be a wonderful idea. I also second Kristine's book suggestion, I would also mention Patricia O'Connell books as they give a good explanation of dog body language, wich once you can read your dogs body language will help you understand what she's thinking! Turid Rugaas also has a lot of good info on calming signals, TuridRugaas.com, worth a read!

 

Good Luck!

Julie

[PSmitty]

Kristine, I believe Rush is only a young pup, herself. Ace, how old is she again?

 

Labs (especially puppies) are notorious for getting in other dogs' space and all up in their mugs. Border collies are notorious for hating that. It could have just been her reaction to what she saw as rude behavior. You're on to something, though, in realizing that it's important for you to remain calm. Also, some dogs are reactive on leash, when they wouldn't normally otherwise be.

 

Don't panic. This doesn't sound like some kind of serious aggression thing to be worried about. I do think you need to get her out and socializing. It's good she has your neighbor dog to hang out with. How about any other close by friends, neighbors or relatives? I also agree that you should approach your parents about getting her enrolled in a class. Explain to them how important it is, and see if there is anything you can do that will make them more likely to take you. Bargain! Good luck!

[Chesney's Girl]

I think you need to do the best you can with socializing right now, with the circumstances you are presented it. It sounds like with her tail dropping she was worried of meeting the new dog, and with a lot of unsocialized dogs that are unsure, the best defense is a good offense. I would just give her a warning when she starts to tense up, or just walk away, there is nothing wrong with your dog learning to be indifferent to another dog. She doesn't need to like or want to play with every one she meets. She does need to learn to be civil though and if that means ignoring or walking away I would find that to be ok. Try working on her just paying attention to you or getting her attention back on you after the initial sniff, before she starts to react to the other dog. Plus if she learns that paying attention to you is the safe place then when you start agility and other activities you can get her attention better, because she won't feel the need to play with every other dog there. Now we need to see pictures of her with her new collar

[PSmitty]

Now we need to see pictures of her with her new collar

 

Yes, please!

[Lenajo]

I took my 5 year old Boone to PetSmart this weekend when I finally spent that Xmas gift card I had for them. I forgot home much I hate that store on the weekends. I forgot how much he hates that store period.

 

Boone's a social guy. He's traveled many miles, loves to play and swim on the weekends with the big pack (about 50+ dogs belonging to friends and I), and he competes in sport stuff, plus herds. He'sa pretty stable guy to say the least

 

That said...

 

Boone's idea of He*l is PetSmart. Dogs with no manners who want to sniff and touch him without permission, screaming children who want to run up and give huggies, Bulldogs that snort (ick), Golden's that paw (double ick) and Lab Puppies (YUCK)

 

He was good boy, but if I hadn't been a good manager he would have let at least 2 little mutts and a Lab know what he thought with a sharp application of ToothEtiquette.

 

Skip PetSmart - or don't worry about the dog/dog stuff right now in that regard and just use it to train(still ok to do it in more relaxed situations, with well mannered dogs). Concentrate on going in the store, training your dog, then getting out. You can get a lot of socializiation in that way, without the negative interactions of trying to fight off a rude dog.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Herding lessons are a GREAT way to socialize a Border Collie. I'd wait until then for worrying about every little lip lip and snap. My experience is, many Border Collies just aren't the WalMart Greeter types. I've got a Leonberger mix puppy and she's reached, I think, the same age as yours. She hasn't met a stranger, a dog she doesn't like. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm so used to that "Everything new is Evil" stage with Border Collies.

 

Just remember to keep it calm and go back to the basics when you feel uncertain. She should listen when you ask for a sit, or a down, or to keep walking. Period. Don't worry about what's in her head. Leave that part alone and she'll sort it out in the way that makes her most comfortable. Don't put her in situations where a lot depends on her acting right, where you'll be forced to make a lot of choices for her (like PetSmart ).

 

She's got to find her own Happy Place. You can't do that for her. You can only offer the framework for what's acceptable and define her boundaries, and like I said, just keep going over the basics.

 

Right now the most important thing for her to learn is that she can trust you. If you have that, you have enough to manage her for the rest of her life (see Lenajo's story of her five year old Boone above) no matter what happens.

 

Good luck!

[Ace]

Thanks for the advice, I think I did panic just a little

 

She is 4 1/2 months, we havent had any issues yet with anything in socialization, other then her getting way to excited while seeing people and peeing everywhere. I was pretty stunned when it happened.

 

I am going to try and talk my parents into socialization classes, hopefully they say yes. I don't think I even really thought about it at first, but the above posts make a lot of sense. I may have been pushing her to hard just by standing next to the puppy.

 

Her new collar (my digital camera sucks when it comes to pictures, this was the best one)

 

 

Diane

[PSmitty]

Goodness, she's cute!

[WyoBC]

She is really cute. I am in the "girl dogs need pink collars" club So I like her new collar

[Skyler]

May I ask where you got that cute little girl? Wow, she looks almost just like a little BC mix being fostered by a friend of mine here in Indy - and she is a super smart little girl too. If I only had more room I would have snagged her in a second.

 

Great looking pooch and I am excited to hear more about her as she grows up.

[kate40541]

Diane, it's so nice to read about you and Rush, that you want to learn more and do what is right for her, and by extension you, and to know that you will listen, do the work, and end up with one very lucky and very cute girl.

 

We all have at least one episode in our past that we would have handled better if we'd known then what we know now, it's part of the experience. She doesn't have to associate with other dogs to participate in agility, if you keep your dog under control and her attention on you then you might find that other people will be standing near you because your dog isn't acting like an idiot around their's who is also under control.

 

Suzanne

[Marilyn T]

I agree to get her into a socialization class. What I find with most of my puppies is a couple of things. If not exposed to 'other breeds' my border collies are real snobs. A new dog must approach them in a civilized manner, not too pushy, not too stand-upish and seeming aggressive. Soon they will get over it, and be rowdy and playful, but initially, they are snobish. Only another 'border collie approach' is safe and acceptable.

 

Secondly, all my pups are pretty possessive of me. They get really attached (because I want them too) but then are jealous of my giving another pup affection. This too needs to be trained to be acceptable. Either one of these could have been what Rush might have been showing. She needs to learn that you can approach another pup. Teach her to sit next to you when another dog comes near. That will help. Ask that the other dog sits too for the greeting. While they are sitting, divide your attention between the two pups. First tell Rush she is very good, then greet the other puppy, then again tell Rush how good she is. Always begin and end with her, so she realizes she comes first to you. Puppy class is a GREAT way to begin with your cute girl. Good luck.

[Ace]

Pink never looked good on my first dog so I had been looking forward to my second, I really love the whole pink for girl dogs think it seems to suit her too.

 

I got Rush from a cattle ranch in Ohio. They only have one border collie, or I think two now since the litter, but they don't breed often. I could get your their information if you would like.

 

I have been introducing Rush to the lab next door, since he is really calm and more of a people dog. He isnt that interested in dogs. Rush really likes him, she treats him like Bear. But we did have an incident earlier today, I was setting up agility equipment behind my house, and someone opened the back door (bad mom!). So out flies Rush, and usually she is really good about staying in the yard, but she decided the street was more interesting. After running up the street, this REALLY aggressive Chow comes charging at her, he is behind a fence, but she freaked out. Not aggression, but fear. Her tail went between her legs, and she backed away. It slowed her down so I could catch her, but it seems she is afraid of other dogs. I think (obvious I know) she has fear aggression. My parents said we cant do classes until class lets out, so middle of June. But its not that far away. I dont know if that encounter has put her two steps backwards, or what.

 

I am going to take her to petsmart a few more times, with cookies, and just give her treats for being in there, and around other dogs. She isnt afraid of Chip(the lab next door), so I am not sure how much he counts for socialization lol.

 

I hope to take classes ASAP though, thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. Hopefully she will get over it, or at least be content.

 

Diane

[Skyler]

Diane,

 

The Chow situation as you describe it is not fear aggression. That simply was fear and not fear aggression. Even if she fought the other dog it would be quite in her right to do so as she would be defending herself. Sounds to me like she was afraid and was becoming submissive to avoid getting hurt.

 

Aggression would be HER charging the chow or any other dog she is not familiar with. Truthfully, I think your puppy is fine from what I read here but the classes would still be a wonderful thing. Its not next week but I would take her in June. Good job getting the parents involved and taking responsiblity for your pup! Keep us posted with pictures too...we LOVE pictures She sure is a cutie.

[Ace]

Oh, I guess that makes sense too, lol. I figured it was fear aggression on the way she kept snarling at the puppy. I never let her get close enough to bite it. Shes one unhappy camper.

 

I will post some pictures later in the gallery, she sure is growing fast! I miss her chubby puppy stages. They are so cute when they are fat

 

Diane

[bc4ever]

Diane,

 

Don't give up. Scooter's not too keen on other dogs either, so when my brother brought his two dogs with him from Colorado for a visit last summer, we were all a little nervous. But, things went quite smoothly as you can see from the picture below. When everyone left after a week, Scooter kept looking for his buddies!

 

 

(From left to right--hubby, Scooter, Buddy (the Aussie) and Maggie (who knows what she is?)LOL!