Advice please, might have to give up my boy...

[juliepoudrier]

Liz,

You're right. I do hope, though, that when the next discussion comes up about someone wanting a puppy and folks point the person to rescue only to have others come on and say "Why do you all always promote rescue when the person clearly wants a puppy and has the right to one?" that someone will post the links to this thread (and the original one) to make the point.

 

At any rate, I do hope Eko gets into rescue. It's the best chance he'll have of finding a great forever home.

 

J.

[MrSnappy]

Instead of jumping on Rskillz for coming back here asking how to place his dog, let's do what we can to help the pup find the best home. If we chase him away, Eko is the one who loses. Also, he doesn't sound like he wants to work on training and managing Eko so any advice there, no matter how great, isn't going to help the dog.

 

Silence equals complicity, in my books. I think Eko has already lost.

 

However, I do agree that all the advice in the world on how to make it work won't help. IME, once they decide to dump, it's all she wrote man.

 

I'll bow out. I have lost all patience and sympathy for the rskillz of the world. I apologize.

 

RDM

[MaryP]

All the replies for Rskillz and Eko that I thought of have already been stated, better than I could phrase them, so I'll just respond to this one point from Julie's post.

When Rskillz was selecting and picking up his puppy, he and I exchanged a few PMs, and he indicated that Eko was coming from a small breeder in the Memphis area that works his/her dogs. I don't have any idea who this individual is, but for whatever it's worth....

 

 

Oh, well maybe he ended up going with a different breeder. I'm just pulling all of this from memories that are over a year old. I haven't tried to track down the thread. But, I thought at one point that he was looking at a breeder somewhere in the Midwest that he had found online. It was one of those breeders that always has pups on the ground. But, again, I'm just pulling from memory, so if I'm wrong, I apologize.

 

Also, I'm certainly not suggesting that you should never contact the breeder. But, without knowing who the breeder is, I'd be hesitant to always suggest that as the first step. So many people who don't really want to do a lot of work tend to just go with a breeder that they found online that has pictures of lots of cute puppies to chose from. Those types of breeders often are not terribly interested in placing their pups in appropriate homes; they are just interested in placing their pups with people who are willing to give them their asking price. I'd just as soon not have a dog go back to a breeder like that. That's all I'm saying.

[aljones]

Oh, I was not disputing your point, Mary, that "contacting the breeder" might not always be the best option for the pup. Sorry if my post came across that way.

 

As you might guess, in fact, the whole reason I was in PM contact with Rskillz is because I had exactly the same concerns about his choice of breeder that you did, particularly when I discovered the breeder was located in Tennessee. And, as I mentioned, I don't know anything at all about the person from whom Rskillz bought Eko. I just shared the general information in case anyone else did have knowledge and could advise about whether contacting the breeder would be a productive step in this particular case.

[mbc1963]

When you got the dog, you knew you were unsettled in your work and love life, and yet you committed to taking the dog.

 

In a world where we are all trying to be the best people we can be, we don't renege on commitments because of what comes up in life; we make life choices based on the commitments we have made.

 

Every time a youngish, single person writes about getting a dog, I want to scream, "NO! NO! NO!" The fact is that life changes greatly for most people between high school and full adulthood. Many of the changes that happen are devastating for a dog: moving out to go to college, roommate changes, housing problems, bad breakups, nasty exes, moving back in with parents, finding a new job, moving out of parents' house, transferring cross country, long commutes, new loves, etc., etc..

 

When I start to give my realistic advice, there are always replies from great young dog owners who manage to make it work by staying in town to go to school, taking jobs that work with their dog schedule, arranging great day care, etc., etc.. I almost feel embarrassed by my cynicism when I read about how committed these young people are to the animals they love.

 

Having said all that, the fact that you've thought about giving up a dog because of travel schedule or choice of partner means that you aren't committed to the dog. Find him a new home with someone who will love him enough to make choices based on his needs.

 

And please, please moderators: Can we make the original thread in which this man discussed choosing a puppy, as well as the very sad outcome thread, part of the FAQ? It's so predictable it hurts.

 

Mary

[PSmitty]

And please, please moderators: Can we make the original thread in which this man discussed choosing a puppy, as well as the very sad outcome thread, part of the FAQ? It's so predictable it hurts.

 

Mary

 

I was thinking the same thing.

[Journey]

Has the OP even returned to read this thread? I can try to make room for this pup but I can't hold a spot for him and turn another down if the OP is flip flopping or gone......

 

Karen

[SoloRiver]

If I remember correctly, Jodi figured out who Eko's breeder was, and if my memory is right about that, then I highly doubt the breeder is going to give two craps about what happens to Eko.

[jdarling]

I can't find my post in the thread where ... I believe ... I found Eko's photo on puppyfind.

 

'Nuff said.

[Shetlander]

I'll bow out. I have lost all patience and sympathy for the rskillz of the world. I apologize.

 

RDM, you have done so much for dogs and seen so much misery and waste that I totally understand your point of view. I can only guess how hard it must be to work to help so many unwanted dogs for so many years. This may not mean anything, but I do want to say that since joining these boards I've been so impressed by all the good work Rescues do. And seeing such great dogs in need of homes, I've resolved to go through rescue for my next Border Collie. I bet there are plenty of other people who feel the same way based on what they have read and learned on these boards. Sometimes we never know the good seeds we've planted that will take root in the future. Thank you for all the dogs you've saved and the people you've made happy by giving them wonderful companions.

[lrayburn]

If the OP is still reading - my Nellie has been with me through at least three "significant others" (sorry Mom!) and at least 4 moves. Ben and Pip haven't been around as long but each of them has seen me through a lot, several moves and summers away from home.

 

If you "really take owning a dog seriously" then you'll realize that giving your pup up under these circumstances is an excuse for you, not a reflection of your dog. You knew who you were dating, where you were likely to be for the summer and the fact that your puppy was going to be an adolescent and require training.

 

I hope you will realize what your pup offers to you. If you can't do what is right for your dog, then find a rescue in your area who will put the time and effort into doing what is right for him and please don't get another puppy just because you feel like your life is settled down and you have time for one now. Your life is never settled for the 12-15 years that it takes to have a dog.

 

Mary's cynicism is understandable. Many young people are not aware of the responsibilities that owning a pup entails. Most aren't willing to put their pups before relationships, housing and job opportunities. That's why people recommended that you not get a pup.

 

I got Nellie in college, while renting. It certainly didn't look good on paper. I now own three dogs as well as three cats and have perennial problems finding a place to rent. I date a guy who didn't have dogs in the house until I came along. The only reason this works for me is because I am willing to make my dogs a priority. I simply won't rent somewhere that I can't have my dogs. I lived in a 16 foot travel trailer for four months while looking for a place that would take my dogs. People asked me why I didn't just give the dogs up or tie them up outside when I couldn't find a place to rent. It takes a certain level of dedication to make those decisions but I made the decisions that I felt were in the best interest of my family unit. My dogs are not disposable, not to me anyway. They were all disposable to someone else in the past though.

 

If you are going to make this work, you have to take a strong stand and really know what your values and priorities are. You can't toss a dog aside because it is inconvenient. If two big dogs are okay, why is the BC that will be "too much"? If you really care about your pup, why wouldn't you put the effort into making things work for him instead of letting someone else be responsible? If your significant other is so wonderful, why would they ask you to give up your dog while they keep theirs?

 

I agree with the previous posters. I hope you are just going through a rough patch and thinking out loud but if you really won't do right by your dog, give it up to a rescue now but don't go out looking for another pup two years from now thinking things are somehow going to be different.

 

Lisa

[Rskillz]

Wow. I'm a bit taken aback by how critical and malicious some of you are being. You're not only attacking my thread, but my intentions behind it. I simply wanted advice; to insinuate he's already been given up since I made this thread is ignorant--I've been at work all day.

 

First off, giving up Eko was NEVER a foregone conclusion. Hence the word "MIGHT." I made this thread while pretty angry after he ate through sheetrock in my living room, destroyed my couch, and ruined a nice piece of furniture.

 

Eko has had nothing but the best food, tons of attention ,exercise, socialization, everything. He is a very very loved dog. To tell me to never own a dog again is completely ridiculous, especially when no decision was close to being made. I mean, give him to a shelter? Are you kidding me?

 

For the record, he will be crated for now on when I'm away, and will be staying with my father for the summer who has a very large yard and time to spend with him.

 

I came her for advice and encouragement, possibly some help. I got flamed. I know in this world people are selfish and dogs are perfect, but these replies beyond shocked me.

[Chesney's Girl]

I think the tone of this thread was started in the title. Choose wisely next time you post a topic. Maybe a better title would have been, it was a really rough day, or I'm at wits end after today, or My dog is eating my house, HELP! But when a thread is started with a Title I might have to give up my dog, and you were warned in another post about the destructive force to be reckon with called an adolescent Border Collie that isn't being crated when home alone, I sure think everyone was in the right to say what advice they did give you, however harsh you might have taken it.

[Jedismom]

Oh for goodness sake! You are totally changing your story now.

 

1. You originally said that your dog needed more attention.

2. You said you tried and tried to address his destructive behaviors yet never before tried to crate.

3. You specifically asked for information on rehoming him because of your situation not being the right fit.

4. You did not ask for advice on helping him with his behaviors though you were given it.

 

So OF COURSE people are going to come to the conclusion that you want to get rid of him. AAND no one said anything about a shelter.

Rescues are different.

Now you are complaining because the people on this board took issue with that? If you have spent any time on these

boards you would know this type of thing arises passions.

I'm glad you found him a good place for the summer. I'm sure you were very frustrated when that sheet rock thing happened.

I hope if you decide to keep him you get some professional advice on how to help him. I hope if you decide to rehome him you choose

a good home.

 

Whew....

[Gary M]

I used to post here a lot before I got my BC. I picked him up in August and it's for the most part been great. He's a wonderful, loving dog whom I care about a lot.

 

BUT.

 

I travel a lot and I've just learned that I can't take him with me for the summers. Also, I'm getting serious with my partner who already has two very large dogs and Eko would really be a bit much if we moved in together. On top of that I have trouble controlling his chewing. He's destroyed a couch, cellphone, walls, etc etc etc. I've tried and tried to stop this behavior but I can't. I think he just needs a bigger yard and more free room to roam and more attention.

 

At this point what should I do? Are there any forums where I could possibly find a good owner for Eko? I love him to death, but I just don't think my situation in the right fit for him.

 

Other than using the word "might" in the tread title, everything else you posted implied a foregone conclusion.

 

You asked what should you do. You were told what to do many months ago.

 

Did you listen then? NO!

Is there any expectation that you will listen now? NO!

 

I am assuming that your are literate enough to have read up on getting a puppy.

Puppies chew things.

Puppies poop and pee where you don't want them to.

 

Many on this board warned you about getting a puppy as your first foray into Border Collies. But you KNEW better than them.

 

You bit off more than you could chew.

Now when an innocent dog is going to be the victim, you expect sympathy and understanding.

I don't know about the sympathy part, but most of us understood from the beginning the likely consequences or your actions.

Do you think you are the first person to come on this board that did not know a thing about Border Collies but just "had to have one?"

You will not suffer because of this, but a poor dog, to whom you are its entire world, is to be cast out to the unknown because of your narcissism.

 

Congratulations!

[kelpiegirl]

To give you some insight as to why I for one suggested what I did (that you not get another dog), refer below to this part of your post ".... Eko would really be a bit much if we moved in together". That is said so off handedly, and so blithely. What do you mean "a bit much"??? Come on. Dogs are either a committment or not. Then, you go on to say "he just needs a bigger yard and more free room to roam and more attention"- basically stating that your home and environment are just not adequate- when they had been until the possible move in with the partner. Then you go on to ask where you can post him needing a home. What ELSE were the readers supposed to get from this post? You didn't ask for a solution to the problems, you asked for help to find him a home. Listen, everyone's circumstances can change- life happens, but I don't get an honest feeling that you have tried anything much to mitigate the problems you have with him.

 

I used to post here a lot before I got my BC. I picked him up in August and it's for the most part been great. He's a wonderful, loving dog whom I care about a lot.

 

BUT.

 

I travel a lot and I've just learned that I can't take him with me for the summers. Also, I'm getting serious with my partner who already has two very large dogs and Eko would really be a bit much if we moved in together. On top of that I have trouble controlling his chewing. He's destroyed a couch, cellphone, walls, etc etc etc. I've tried and tried to stop this behavior but I can't. I think he just needs a bigger yard and more free room to roam and more attention.

 

At this point what should I do? Are there any forums where I could possibly find a good owner for Eko? I love him to death, but I just don't think my situation in the right fit for him.

[pammyd]

RDM, you have done so much for dogs and seen so much misery and waste that I totally understand your point of view. I can only guess how hard it must be to work to help so many unwanted dogs for so many years. This may not mean anything, but I do want to say that since joining these boards I've been so impressed by all the good work Rescues do. And seeing such great dogs in need of homes, I've resolved to go through rescue for my next Border Collie. I bet there are plenty of other people who feel the same way based on what they have read and learned on these boards. Sometimes we never know the good seeds we've planted that will take root in the future. Thank you for all the dogs you've saved and the people you've made happy by giving them wonderful companions.

 

Yup RDM and others

You might feel you are banging your heads against a wall with what you hear and see. You might feel fed up and there is no point posting cos the OP aint listning

But others are reading and learning

Because of this site and the people on here when I finally was ready to get a dog I didnt think twice about finding a breeder or anything

rescue was the only way to go - and boy am I happy with what I found there

 

I also took the time, wanted dogs for as long as I can rem, a couple of years ago there was a farmer holding a little bitch for me but in the end I turned her down because I hadnt recearched the breed enough and didnt think I was ready

- and even after a year more recearch I still went for a mix just to make sure I could cope with the high demands of such a smart dog

 

and yup in the past year my life has changed beyond all recognition. I know people in my street as friends now - we walk together in all weathers

I spend many evenings in training classes

I am now a morning person!

I cant just go away when I want I have to think of Ben - but I dont really want to go places he cant come anyway

 

Ben gives me everything so it is no hardship to change my life and I cannot imagine the tragic events that would make me have to give him up. I would rather sleep in a carboard box with my fluffy pall than in a king size bed without

 

Rskillz

Sorry if you feel hard done by but your little pup is the one I am worried about

yes I was being critical, malicious no. honestly I cannot understand why you even think for a moment about getting rid of your pup

 

I had wrote more but there is no point

[painted_ponies]

Eko has had nothing but the best food, tons of attention ,exercise, socialization, everything. He is a very very loved dog. To tell me to never own a dog again is completely ridiculous, especially when no decision was close to being made. I mean, give him to a shelter? Are you kidding me?

 

No one told you to give him to a shelter. Karen (Journey) has offered to take Eko and find him a forever home. What is your response?

[jdarling]

I travel a lot and I've just learned that I can't take him with me for the summers. Also, I'm getting serious with my partner who already has two very large dogs and Eko would really be a bit much if we moved in together. On top of that I have trouble controlling his chewing. He's destroyed a couch, cellphone, walls, etc etc etc. I've tried and tried to stop this behavior but I can't. I think he just needs a bigger yard and more free room to roam and more attention.

 

At this point what should I do? Are there any forums where I could possibly find a good owner for Eko? I love him to death, but I just don't think my situation in the right fit for him.

 

I came her for advice and encouragement, possibly some help.

 

This is not asking for help or encouragement. This is listing all the excuses for why you couldn't possibly keep Eko, and asking how to find a home for Eko.

 

What exactly is a bigger yard and more free room to roam going to accomplish? Nothing. You're right. He needs more attention and training. Is your father going to be able or willing to give that to him? Does your father know anything about training a previously untrained adolescent Border Collie ... or will you be in the same boat in a month in needing to find Eko yet another home?

 

Ok ... so you think the idea of sending him to a shelter is just absolutely preposterous. There was a question about his breeder -- the same breeder that a few months ago you believed walked on water. Have you contacted this wonderful breeder? Are they making arrangements to take him back?

 

Here's my advice. Neuter him (if he's not already), get him up to date on his shots (if he's not already) and send him and his health records to me at your expense. I will find him an appropriate home.

 

(Offers: 2 ... and counting ...)

 

This isn't about you ... or us ... or how "nice" people are or are not on this board. This is about your dog. And doing what's right by the dog. It's too bad you didn't listen to the advice given to you in the first round. Makes me think this is all falling on deaf ears as well.

 

Jodi

[Shetlander]

First off, giving up Eko was NEVER a foregone conclusion. Hence the word "MIGHT." I made this thread while pretty angry after he ate through sheetrock in my living room, destroyed my couch, and ruined a nice piece of furniture.

 

You did write "might" but not in caps and in all fairness the question in your post was for assistance in how to find another home for Eko. I didn't pick up on any requests for how to address the destructiveness but did see a lot of reasons why you felt you were not the right home for Eko. And you didn't qualify your comments with an explanation that you were at your wit's end with him when you started the thread. So do you see why people made the assumptions they did?

 

Despite the bluntness of some of the posts, everyone truly has Eko's best interests at heart and, like you, wants to see him thrive and succeed. I hope the set-up with your dad works but an adolescent BC is a force to be reckoned with, as you know. More room and even lots of attention aren't necessarily the answer for these dogs. There's also training, finding activities that engage the mind and body, figuring out a schedule that works for human and dog, using the appropriate discipline, etc. And on top of all that, Eko's destructive habits are a big hurdle to overcome. I think Border Collies are the best dogs but they aren't dogs that generally do well in the typical home.

 

If you have any doubts about your dad taking this significant task on or if things don't go well, please take Jodi or Karen up on theirs offers to take Eko. Even if you feel totally misunderstood and maligned by responses to your post, that would be the very best thing you could do for Eko if you decide you shouldn't keep him. Really, I think we all agree that Eko deserves to be in the best home possible. If that can be with you, fantastic. But if it can't, there is still hope if he can go to someone who really knows the breed and how to find the right placement. Someone like Jodi or Karen.

 

Please keep an open mind and heart on this for Eko's sake.

[Lewie'sMom]

Wow. I'm a bit taken aback by how critical and malicious some of you are being. You're not only attacking my thread, but my intentions behind it. I simply wanted advice; to insinuate he's already been given up since I made this thread is ignorant--I've been at work all day.

 

First off, giving up Eko was NEVER a foregone conclusion. Hence the word "MIGHT." I made this thread while pretty angry after he ate through sheetrock in my living room, destroyed my couch, and ruined a nice piece of furniture.

 

Eko has had nothing but the best food, tons of attention ,exercise, socialization, everything. He is a very very loved dog. To tell me to never own a dog again is completely ridiculous, especially when no decision was close to being made. I mean, give him to a shelter? Are you kidding me?

 

For the record, he will be crated for now on when I'm away, and will be staying with my father for the summer who has a very large yard and time to spend with him.

 

I came her for advice and encouragement, possibly some help. I got flamed. I know in this world people are selfish and dogs are perfect, but these replies beyond shocked me.

 

My first thought when I read this post was, "Waaa".

 

If you can even THINK about giving up your dog JUST because he does damage to your material things, you don't really understand what it means to be a responsible pet owner. If Eko had been getting "tons of attention, exercise..." he'd either be too tired to do damage or you'd have been around to distract him from unwanted behavior. Your statement "he will be crated for now on when I'm away" is the first smart thing you've posted. Drywall can be repaired, furniture replaced, lessons (yours) learned. You may be PO'd about the damage Eko caused but did you once ever worry that he could get into something that would be harmful to HIM?

 

Yes, you're getting flamed because you ignored the good advice from people who know a lot more than you do and now you want to whine about the trials of owning a BC pup. Quite frankly, you have no leg to stand on to complain about the responses you've gotten here. Child, you need to grow up and take responsibility for the life you committed to give Eko. If you don't have the mettle to be a caring, responsible pet owner then it would be best for Eko if you gave him up. I only hope you have the grace to admit you made a mistake and work as diligently to find him a GOOD home as you have to make excuses for yourself.

[Skyler]

<Sigh> Please send the dog to the individual offering help or place in a Border Collie rescue. Its going to be the best option for both of you. This will offer the best chance at a good life for your pup and you can at least have some kind of peace about his future.

 

I'd take him if I had the room but sadly I dont. I already have two BC pups and my plate is full.

[Soda-pop]

I got Nellie in college, while renting. It certainly didn't look good on paper. I now own three dogs as well as three cats and have perennial problems finding a place to rent. I date a guy who didn't have dogs in the house until I came along. The only reason this works for me is because I am willing to make my dogs a priority. I simply won't rent somewhere that I can't have my dogs. I lived in a 16 foot travel trailer for four months while looking for a place that would take my dogs. People asked me why I didn't just give the dogs up or tie them up outside when I couldn't find a place to rent. It takes a certain level of dedication to make those decisions but I made the decisions that I felt were in the best interest of my family unit. My dogs are not disposable, not to me anyway. They were all disposable to someone else in the past though.

...

If you are going to make this work, you have to take a strong stand and really know what your values and priorities are. You can't toss a dog aside because it is inconvenient. If two big dogs are okay, why is the BC that will be "too much"? If you really care about your pup, why wouldn't you put the effort into making things work for him instead of letting someone else be responsible? If your significant other is so wonderful, why would they ask you to give up your dog while they keep theirs?

...

Lisa

 

Pretty much same story here. I'm about your age, as a matter of fact. I have given up a lot to keep my dogs and had to learn a lot, but when I adopted them I made a commitment to all of them that I would be there for them for the rest of their lives.

 

Also, I have three dogs in a one bedroom apartment. Not ideal, but you know what? I know for a fact that my dogs get more exercise than most dogs with a yard. I have buff dogs. The size of the yard is nearly irrelevant--it's what you do with it! I have adopters all the time saying "but I have five acres..." so? Most of the time the dog goes out, runs around for about 10 minutes, poops and comes and waits by the door because he's bored.

 

I adopted my adult border collie and I knew I was going to have to make a huge commitment and from your OP (the one from before you got EKO) you wanted to make that. Please, take some training classes, read some books, take up frisbee, by stock in wilson and buy a ton of tennis balls, do something!

 

I guess I'm just saying it's not impossible, but yeah, you are going to have to change parts of your life. It's part of being a responsible dog owner.

[Pat W.]

So instead of either A) finding Eko a good permanent home or finding a way to keep him with you year round you're going to C) shuttle this young untrained pup between homes where he MIGHT get trained MIGHT get enough exercise and MIGHT get the loving he needs.

 

YEEEK! There are a multitude of rescues and volunteers that would be more than willing to take in this poor pup. Suck it up be a man admit you made a mistake, that you have no intention of making an effort to fix and let rescue find Eko a home. You never did say why you cant take him with you to Denver...guessing theres not a real good reason

[PSmitty]

^^ What she said!