Where do you draw the line?

[bcnewe2]

And since we've all been burned as breeders at least once, it would only be fair.

What does that mean?

 

K~

[Lenajo]

What does that mean?

 

K~

 

The poster did not want to excluded trainers from the "pro" list for the working Border Collie because of what puppy buyers had done regarding AKC registration without their consent. I agreed - provided it was truly just a mistake that happened one time or with significant irregularity. Puppy buyers can change their minds, heck lose their minds, and unless you are prepared to take them to court you won't get your puppy back. Once out of your hands very few contracts designed by breeders will stand up in court.

 

It seems like its been decided that I'm the enemy because I train people who might or do compete in AKC. If it must be so...oh well. I do my best to help people with their sheepherding skills and I charge for my time because it's worth it. (and hey, anybody who farms anymore can tell you that the outside jobs better be good if you want to live any better than poverty) They know where I stand on AKC and the Border Collie. I'm not dishonest about their dogs potential, or not. I do recognize that 99% of the people I see have their dogs neutered and take fantastic care of them. They're good people, and those that have talent and drive to herd a high level typically move forward into a well bred working BC over time and graduate to our type of competitions. And some don't. They are happy to work with their XYZ breed and willing to work and pay (in time and money) what it takes to bring the dog to high enough standard to do the arena trials they like.

 

A few of them go on to the $1M dog as some other handlers we know. They buy a farm LOL

 

I haven't helped do any AKC herding events as suggested, but I haven't been asked either so I can't say I've said no.

 

I think politics should stay outside the training pasture.

 

Great debate btw...

[bcnewe2]

Ok Now I get the statement. I'm not in agreement with it tho. It can happen easily, not just once.

 

Puppy buyers can change their minds, heck lose their minds, and unless you are prepared to take them to court you won't get your puppy back. Once out of your hands very few contracts designed by breeders will stand up in court.

 

That's the chance breeders take, I don't think they should be punished for what their puppy owners choose to do.

 

It seems like its been decided that I'm the enemy because I train people who might or do compete in AKC

 

To me it seems like you have your own lines drawn and really don't need to defend them. You can explain them as others have but they're yours, no need to defend them, just dicuss and debate, no enemy stuff. (don't know if that came out right)

 

Thanks for claifiying the breeder part.

 

K~

[Lenajo]

Ok Now I get the statement. I'm not in agreement with it tho. It can happen easily, not just once.

 

If it's happening repeatedly the breeder is doing one or more of the following:

 

over breeding (you can't follow up on high numbers)

 

not screening properly

 

not following up

 

~~~~

 

All of that can be fixed. Yes, crud happens, but some breeders are using it as a excuse because crud is profitable to them.

[jdarling]

This whole thread is of "the lady/gentleman doth protest too much, methinks" variety since there is no one who is a regular visitor to this site who isn't aware of the danger to working breeds of dogs posed by the AKC, and there is no one here of such little intelligence that they can't tell when they are materially contributing to the good health of the AKC by participating in their events without needing to have it discussed here.

 

Since my original response to this comment has been moderated ... let me see if I can rephrase it. Pearse, if you find this entire thread unnecessary, perhaps you shouldn't waste your time reading it, especially considering it was started by someone with "such little intelligence."

 

It's pretty clear to me that the line has gotten quite blurred, and there are obviously as many opinions on the subject. We all know there is a ton of hypocrisy in the stockdog world. It's great that there are people who are absolute purists who will not even mutter the letters AKC no less ever get caught chatting with someone that has a dog registered with them, but I am apparently not one of them. I value my friendships a great deal, and if that means I set stock for one of my friends' events, then so be it. My friends respect the fact that I won't register my dogs AKC, nor run in those trials, and appreciate the fact that I am still willing to help out to promote stockdogging in the community. If that means people who respect me see me doing that and follow in my footsteps, that's ok with me. As far as I am concerned, there are far worse footsteps to follow. And I am the only one who has to sleep with the decisions I make.

 

I think politics should stay outside the training pasture.

 

I agree.

[SoloRiver]

Puppy buyers can change their minds, heck lose their minds, and unless you are prepared to take them to court you won't get your puppy back. Once out of your hands very few contracts designed by breeders will stand up in court.

 

This problem could be circumvented if breeders took advantage of ABCA's "non-breeder" registration option. Personally I think the name should be changed to "limited" or something like that ("non-breeder" or "non-breeding" is so awkward and does not reflect the fact that it can be reversed), but if breeders used this option it would (1) make it impossible for pet or hobby owners to breed their dogs and produce more sub-standard dogs under ABCA registration and (2) AKC would not fully register those dogs. If, in the future, the buyer found the pup to be breedworthy, the breeder could change the registration to full. As far as I can see it's a win-win situation and I cannot for the life of me figure out why practically no one uses this option. I can see how it would impact sales to working homes (because Border Collie people tend to be "you're not the boss of me" people), but breeders could use it for sales to pet/sport homes and practically eliminate the related AKC problem right there.

[Lenajo]

I'm not sure AKC would honor ABCA non-breeding listings. I think they would put them in as a full registration.