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Has Cesar turned over a new leaf?


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Just as every person who trains with corrections is not a dog abuser, every person who does not use them is not trying to turn their dogs into baby substitutes. Those who do so are not spoiling their pets because of the training method that they have chosen, but because of their overall treatment that they are giving their pet.

 

The notion that a dog trained with positive methods = spoiled baby is quite a sweeping assumption which I have not found to be true at all among many dog owners that I know.

 

 

My point being that most dogs are not trained at all- no structure at all in their life. Dogs, in general, are very spoiled- I see them everyday at work and feel I have a pretty good idea of how most dog owners are raising their dogs. Society, in general, treats dogs like baby substitutes and not like dogs. Cesar is advocating that we remember that these are dogs first, cherished pets second- there is room for positive reward but only within the structure we provide for them. I did not mean that people who use positive-only are making baby substitutes- just that the lack of any correction in a dog's life leads to confusion and often poor behavior. People need to get the message more that dogs need some kind of training, postive or correction based- at least Cesar's show is good at showing the direct consequences of raising a dog without some kind of training.

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My point being that most dogs are not trained at all- no structure at all in their life. Dogs, in general, are very spoiled- I see them everyday at work and feel I have a pretty good idea of how most dog owners are raising their dogs. Society, in general, treats dogs like baby substitutes and not like dogs. Cesar is advocating that we remember that these are dogs first, cherished pets second- there is room for positive reward but only within the structure we provide for them. I did not mean that people who use positive-only are making baby substitutes- just that the lack of any correction in a dog's life leads to confusion and often poor behavior. People need to get the message more that dogs need some kind of training, postive or correction based- at least Cesar's show is good at showing the direct consequences of raising a dog without some kind of training.

 

 

I think that some dog owners spoil their dogs much more than their children. For example, I know of someone who owns a huge boxer. She tells me stories of how she has to keep him on a leash around the house all the time because if she doesn't he'll jump on counters, tables, etc. and help himself to anything he wants. She laughs about it. She doesn't have any children but she is a teacher. One of the strictest I know. I asked her once if she would allow her students to do this in her classroom. She was stunned. To her he was a dog and that was just his personality.

 

As far as Cesar turning a new leaf goes....well I watched an episode last night (one of the new ones) in which he helped a noise-phobic dog overcome his fears. It was different than any other show of his I've watched. He used lots of treats, praise, and other rewards. It took 3 months to desensitize but in the end he was successful. In past shows this was not his approach.

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I'm glad you said this!

 

By the same token, my clicker trained dogs don't need a clicker and treats to function outside of the training context! They know when they are in a training and/or performance setting, and when they are not. I'm not saying that anyone here got that impression, but I do hear that concern voiced from time to time.

 

When Speedy took herding lessons, I did not take the clicker or treats or toys along because that was not what that sort of training called for. He definitely knew the difference between working with the sheep and Freestyle!

 

I see clickers/treats/etc. as appropriate (for myself absolutely necessary) tools for teaching basic manners, sport/performance behaviors, and for behavior modification. That's why I take issue with Cesar and his "way". If he were training stockdogs, I would not object to his methods because that is not the sort of training that I personally have knowledge of and experience with. Since he's putting himself forth as an expert on manners and behavior modification, not as a stockdog trainer, and I see the effect that his show is having on many pet dog folks, I feel it important to try to help those people know that there are effective and do-able methods for training their dogs that are not correction based and that Cesar's way is far from the only way or the best way.

 

 

Thanks for answering my post folks :D It's alot to think about. I'm glad to know that it doesn't necessarily get in their way of working with sheep. I also did not mean to use it during herding lessons. I thought about it but somehow it seemed totally inappropriate. It was during Jedi's 1st lesson when the trainer asked me if he would sit. :D I could have yelled sit in his ear with a bullhorn, and it wouldn't have worked he was so focused on the sheep. I had to resort to placing him in a sit.

 

I've started using the "hey" to stop a behavior, and then allowing Jedi to choose an alternative. This is difficult for me as I can be a little controlling. :rolleyes: He's actually making some good choices :D Like when he's hassling Cadi and she just wants to sleep...I'll tell him to stop but I won't tell him to go lie down. He then will choose to go lie down or bring me a toy. If he sees me on the computer, than he knows he can't bring me a toy because I won't play, so he settle himself to lie down with a huff :D

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Today I was at a pig roast, and had my dogs along- there were tons of dogs around. I kept mine crated in the car for most of it, as I was very busy. Toward the end, I brought Lucy out. After I let her say hi to some friends, she, of her own initiative and volition lay down next to me, calm, and well behaved. I never taught her that. She is my only dog who could chill so well in a carnival-like atmosphere- she is a joy to be around. I never taught her that. Perhaps the structure she gets from me from working sheep, and knowing that I am the leader, could have some sway afterall...

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I like Cesar. He's kinda cute. :rolleyes: Seriously though, I don't see that much wrong with what he does. A lot of what he says makes sense. I've learned from many different resources, along with just interacting with my dog. Some things work with him that don't with the neighbor's dog. All Cesar all the time would be like eating only one food your whole life. I'm constantly learning and open to new ideas. I don't think people really believe it only takes a half hour to work out their dogs issues--in fact, many times they will put up on the screen, "45 minutes later," etc. And he stresses that the owners have to keep working with the dog after he leaves. HELLO! We need to lighten up a bit here. There are all kinds of dog training shows out there, each with a little different take on what to do--Good Dog U, Barking Mad, It's Me or the Dog...it's t.v.--it's entertainment. :D If you're really having problems with your dog, call a qualified trainer. Mine comes to my home and was a real life saver when Scooter was going through his adolescent stage! LOL! So, watch The Dog Whisperer. Try some of his techniques. If they don't work, try something else. :D

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