jdarling Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I saw a couple of threads in my search where Victoria Stillwell was mentioned, and I get a sense that people generally like her. I think she has some good methods and explains them well to the pet owners she is dealing with. There's no "machismo" needed or anything, and the methods seem to be fairly successful. What blows me away is how people raise their dogs, and the behaviors they tolerate before getting desperate enough to do something about it. I am watching an episode where a terrier named Buster urinates all over this woman's countertop when she's gone. He pees on the bread box, opens the oven, opens the microwave, eats anything he can find, and just pees on everything -- including their other dog. Buster also goes ballistic when the owner hugs her significant other ... and the dog has just completely taken over this household. But she "loves him." Yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I know. It's amazing what people put up for and for how long before they decide to either deal with the matter or dump the dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Her show is on my record list. She's like a supernanny for dogs. I like her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 A pretty shocking episode (from the perspective of clueless owners) was the one with the two greyhound siblings who were not house trained at almost 2 years of age and were NEVER let off leash to run, like any normal greyhound needs to! And they were wondering why the dogs were playfighting non-stop. They had so much energy built up for 2 years!!! And they were pooping and peeing all over this couple's kitchen - beah!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I have that show on to record also. It's amazing how many of the dogs on the show are not housebroken. I also have her book which is good. She's not a big fan of crating a dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanillalove Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I've heard some pretty good things about her book, but I've never watched her show. What does she say about crating? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 She says that crate training is much more popular in the United States than in Britain. She believes they are being misused and should not be used for punishment or to isolate a dog for large portions of the day. She believes that if they are to be used, it should be for house-training only and then put away. If the dog likes the crate then the door should be kept open so he can come and go as he pleases. She prefers to set up an area of the house (like her kitchen) with a baby gate if the puppy needs to be confined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 the two greyhound siblings who were not house trained at almost 2 years of age and were NEVER let off leash to run, like any normal greyhound needs to! Heading a bit off topic for a moment. Just a point of fact: If you adopt an ex-racing greyhound from at least some of the rescues (e.g., Greyhound Pets of America), you have to sign an agreement NOT to let the dog off leash, period (well, except perhaps in a fenced yard). This is a rule in place for their own safety**. Saying that greyhounds MUST be allowed off leash to "run like they were meant to" is akin to saying that border collies must live on farms where they have room to roam and herd livestock to their hearts' content. **A sad story regarding letting them off leash. My mother and my brother used to walk her ex-racing greyhound, her borzoi, and her Italian greyhound off leash on our farm and the farm next door on walks to the river. She got away with it for years--no incidents. Then shortly before she died, my brother was taking Sneaker on her regular walk. A gun shot went off nearby, Sneaker took off into the woods (this is a 600-acre farm), and was found shortly thereafter HBC two or three miles from where she took off. My mother and brother were heartsick. That dog covered a lot of ground in very short time. Oh yeah, she had a need to run. Too bad she wasn't aware of the fact that crossing a road in front of a car can kill you. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Julie, that's not what I meant. Just imagine a Border Collie who's NEVER let off leash to run. A 2 year old. Can you imagine that?! Ever. Not in a fenced yard, nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Anda, I understood what you meant. I don't doubt that the owners in question are clueless and probably shouldn't have a dog, but I think not letting them off leash isn't the best example of their cluelessness. My point was that at least some of the rescues that adopt ex-racing greyhounds (yes, I suppose they're off leash for some part of their lives while they're racing) specifically *require* the dogs to be leashed *at all times.* My mother's been dead for a decade, so I just went to the GPA website to make sure I wasn't misremembering. Here are two quotes from there: They do not require a great deal of space to run, as many people think, but they do need exercise. Use It or Lose It by Kathy Morrill: In this case the first "it" refers to a leash, and the second "it" refers to your dog. It saddens me to say that, despite all our efforts to inform prospective greyhound adopters of the necessity of keeping their dog on a leash, we are still getting yearly reports.... I wish someone would explain to me how someone who professes to love their dog can take the chance of somethign disastrous happening to it simply because, suddenly, he can't be bothered to take a second or two to clip on a leash. ... Unleashed is unloved. I personally hesitate to make a blanket statement that not letting a dog off leash is somehow cruel to the dog. I'm sure there are dogs in situations where the only choice is to keep them on leash and yet that doesn't make the owners some sort of monsters. JMO. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 She says that crate training is much more popular in the United States than in Britain. She believes they are being misused and should not be used for punishment or to isolate a dog for large portions of the day. She believes that if they are to be used, it should be for house-training only and then put away. If the dog likes the crate then the door should be kept open so he can come and go as he pleases. She prefers to set up an area of the house (like her kitchen) with a baby gate if the puppy needs to be confined. By the average pet owner (as seen on shows like this one) the crate is often abused. Instead of a tool as part of the dog's training, it becomes an excuse and a way not to train. Taking away the crate won't solve that. You have to change the owners. The difference between _bad_ pet owners who crate and those that don't are the craters end up with undamaged homes and neurotic dogs that they rehome, and those that don't have damaged homes are nuerotic dogs that they rehome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Color me blond, but I just dont get this. The difference between _bad_ pet owners who crate and those that don't are the craters end up with undamaged homes and neurotic dogs that they rehome, and those that don't have damaged homes are nuerotic dogs that they rehome. Are you saying that crating a dog causes them to be neurotic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Color me blond, but I just dont get this. The difference between _bad_ pet owners who crate and those that don't are the craters end up with undamaged homes and neurotic dogs that they rehome, and those that don't have damaged homes are nuerotic dogs that they rehome. Are you saying that crating a dog causes them to be neurotic? trying again...muddled it obviously Bad pet owners don't train, exercise, or stimulate the dog. When they use crating to get around this - typically the dog ends up crated for hours on end with no relief. So yes, that sort of crating can make the dog neurotic. I've gotten dogs in that have only been out of the crate for a few minutes every day for a year or more. I 've seen them sucking their feet, chewing on their flanks, pulling their hair out, spinning in the crate, for example. The opposite, but equally bad pet owners doesn't crate and lest the dog run amuk will often end up with an equally neurotic dog. So it's not the system (crating versus not-crating) that makes dogs nuts or abusive. It's the owners use of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I don't think that I've ever seen this show but I do know that these shows tend to feature clueless owners who are likely the catalysts for their pets' bad behavior(s). But, I would like to point out that not all behavioral issues are due to an owner's cluelessness (Is that a word?). Not all behavioral problems develop because the owner "let them" develop. Dogs, like people, are a combination of nature and nurture. It's not always so black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I don't think that I've ever seen this show but I do know that these shows tend to feature clueless owners who are likely the catalysts for their pets' bad behavior(s). But, I would like to point out that not all behavioral issues are due to an owner's cluelessness (Is that a word?). Not all behavioral problems develop because the owner "let them" develop. Dogs, like people, are a combination of nature and nurture. It's not always so black and white. True, the owner cannot change the genetics, but they can change their response to them. "Letting" is just that - be it by ignorance or deliberate neglect. The dogs ability to recover from those things is also genetic. Whether or not he will recover is up to the owner. (and to be fair sometimes there just isn't enough time or money) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I saw an episode where a GSD was barking at and chasing the 3 kids in the house (guarding the father from them). If I had kids I would never subject them to that kind of environment for years. If I had been one of the kids I would have moved out long ago. Once she got the father to take charge as a firm, confident leader and taught the kids how to take control without being afraid (the dog was not actually aggressive) it was peaceful. I really like that she is matter of fact, calm and takes charge without resorting to flooding, harsh punishment or other methods that CM uses. Did you see the episode on fat dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yes! That may have been the episode where the dog ate better than the humans in the family. Freshly cooked major meal for the dog, tv dinners for the family. One lady gave her dog his afternoon tea. Dogs don't have to eat like that to get fat though. No exercising will do it. My neighbors have 2 black labs they do nothing with. They keep them confined in a laundry room all day or in a small corner of the yard they have fenced off. They destroy the house if they are let loose. They are never walked. I was in their house the other day and I saw them for the first time in a long time. I have never in my life seen fatter labs. She said they were about 110 lbs. She thought it was funny. I think it's sad but it seems to be the norm. When I walk my dogs, I seem to be one of very few, even though I know there are dogs in many of the homes I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahoops Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I too like her alot .One episode that had me gobsmacked was the one where the mum,dad and their poor son took their dogs to a field and each guarded a gate and each carried walkie talkies to alert each other to another dog approaching .I sometimes have to wonder do they make these stories up for the show?Surely some of these owners cant really exist!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Not to get toooooo sidetracked from the OP...but frankly, I know NOTHING about greyhounds, or any sighthounds. But I did get the DVD Really Reliable Recall, by Leslie Nelson. Her method was developed for her own Afghans - after someone told her she could NEVER let them off leash, because she couldn't teach them to "come" when called. It does work, and one SHOULD be able to let even rescued greyhounds off leash - somewhere, sometime. But then, we're talking a dedicated pet owner who would actually have to work at TRAINING a dog. Just because they've rescued a greyhound from a racetrack doesn't mean they're THAT dedicated, I guess...OK, that's a generalization. But you get the drift. I frankly can't imagine a sighthound (or frankly, any dog) NOT being able to run free - but that's just me. diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 All I can say is I LOVE HER SHOW!!! I really like and respect her hands off way of working with the dogs. It's firm but gentle and they almost always respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I too like her alot .One episode that had me gobsmacked was the one where the mum,dad and their poor son took their dogs to a field and each guarded a gate and each carried walkie talkies to alert each other to another dog approaching .I sometimes have to wonder do they make these stories up for the show?Surely some of these owners cant really exist!!!! Oh man!! That family was just manic in how they dealt with everything!!! Just bringing peace and toning down the hysteria did more for those dogs than anything else. It's a wonder those dogs hadn't run away just to get some relief! Funny thing... I happened to have record an episode of It's Me Or... and had just watched it... non confrontational way of handling a dog resource guarding the wife and the bed. I happened to change to NG with 'the one who shall remain nameless' handling the same exact thing. Talk about night and day! Victoria needs no disclaimers because of use on non confrontational methods... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Not to get toooooo sidetracked from the OP...but frankly, I know NOTHING about greyhounds, or any sighthounds. But I did get the DVD Really Reliable Recall, by Leslie Nelson. Her method was developed for her own Afghans - after someone told her she could NEVER let them off leash, because she couldn't teach them to "come" when called. It does work, and one SHOULD be able to let even rescued greyhounds off leash - somewhere, sometime. But then, we're talking a dedicated pet owner who would actually have to work at TRAINING a dog. Just because they've rescued a greyhound from a racetrack doesn't mean they're THAT dedicated, I guess...OK, that's a generalization. But you get the drift. I frankly can't imagine a sighthound (or frankly, any dog) NOT being able to run free - but that's just me. diane Diane, The point I was trying to make is that the particular rescue, Greyhound Pets of America, (and I would bet others like it) has the adopter sign a contract and one of the things that contract states is that you will not let the dog off leash. Obviously my mom's sighthounds had generally reliable recalls, which is why she was able to walk them off leash on our farm and the neighboring farm. She was, however, breaking the terms of her adoption contract by doing so. I'm not commenting on whether it's sad that a dog can't run off leash, although as I stated earlier, I'd be willing to bet there are dogs whose living situations mean they are rarely, if ever, off leash (I mean, consider an apartment dweller in a city with few or no dog parks--or just a dog in the city belonging to a little old lady who never walks it except on leash), and that doesn't make their owners stupid or uncaring. In fact, if the alternative for the dog is death or lab research (which is what happened to many greyhounds before a number of rescue organizations got going), then never being off leash is perhaps a minor inconvenience in life. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 The difference is that CM works with the dog until it shuts down mentally, so it looks like it is cured in a hour (a miracle!), but you never hear what the dog is like after he leaves. VS shows the owners what to do, leaves then comes back in weeks or months and the dog is better (if the owner worked with it). You can see that her methods work and that the dogs are much more calm and happy after their owners learn how to be effective leaders and responsible dog owners. Of course, many people want quick fixes, they dont want to have to put effort into anything, which is why they like CM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 The difference is that CM works with the dog until it shuts down mentally, so it looks like it is cured in a hour (a miracle!), but you never hear what the dog is like after he leaves. I much prefer Victoria's approach but in all fairness to Cesar, he often goes back down the road to see how dogs are doing. Often the owners report the dog is doing very well and that is how it appears on camera. Sometimes, new problems pop up or old ones return. Cesar may or may not help them resolve the problems. I've seen a couple of shows where the owners decided to rehome the dog (with Cesar) because they didn't feel they could make things work out. Cesar then helped them pick out a dog that was more suited to their lifestyles. He seems to be putting extra emphasis on choosing the dog that is right for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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