sluj Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 I've been thinking about this lately in a couple of different contexts, so I hope you'll forgive me if I ramble a little. Living in an urban area, it's more than just desirable to have a dog who takes strangers, strange dogs, and vehicles in stride. Fortunately, Allie is not at all dog-reactive, and ignores most passers-by, but there are some people she has decided need a warning bark. Since I don't want to scare off delivery folk, or be a nuisance to our neighbors, I've been working on treating her for being quiet. We've also progressed so that she doesn't need to hide behind me when the garbage truck comes. On the other hand - and this is where the discussion bit comes in - I wonder if a little fear is a good thing. If she shies away from the bus, she's not running under its wheels. Obviously I don't want her to be so anxious that it interferes with her quality of life, but I don't really want her to believe she's indestructible, either. Also, she dislikes men who smoke (esp. pot) or who move oddly. Since we live less than half a mile from 2006's "4th most dangerous city in the US", and many of our residents exhibit signs of extreme mental disturbance and hard drug use, I'm not inclined to doubt that some of the people she distrusts are potentially dangerous. (Of course, some of the people she barks at are nothing worse than jerks ). I have no intention of training her for protection work, but maybe a warning growl or bark is appropriate at times. Anyways, as I said, a bit of a ramble. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 I know when I am walking with Chesney, I think he picks up with I feel uncomfortable with someone approaching, and he will usually give a low warning growl, especially if the person moves suddenly or says something. I don't mind so much with things like this. As far as some fear goes. I think its a good thing as long as the fear reactions, like you said, don't interfere with 'normal' functioning. And after being up at school at St. Mary's for 2 years I wouldn't mind if Chesney gave a warning growl to some of the folks up there. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 You can always teach a growl or bark on cue only and do the desensitization in the majority of situations. I at one point trained Maggie to bark on the cue "Steady" and liked knowing that I had that tool in case I ever wanted to appear like my dog could do damage on command. I did not use an obvious "bark" cue so that the "bad person" wouldn't know she'd only been trained to bark vs. full on personal protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 Well, to give you some examples from my life... My first Border Collie, Duncan, was a certified therapy dog. You would have been amazed to see how gentle and understanding he was with people of all ages and disabilities. Someone broke into our house and he "escorted" the person off our property all on his own, before my sister even realized what was happening. As soon as the police showed up he greeted them with his tail wagging, so proud of what he had done. Flyboy, a Border Collie with the most happy, bomb proof temperament you could ever meet. He is afraid of nothing and loves every person and dog he meets. He is supremely confident yet very fair and gentle. The one time in his entire life he went after another dog was when a BC I was fostering attacked me. Flyboy came flying through the air, knocked the dog back and stood silently between me and the dog. I think your best bet is to socialize, train and desensitize as much as possible and trust your dog to know what to do when the situation arises. The very best protection dogs know what normal human behavior is like so are able to pick up on the subtle body language cues that mean a person is up to no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 A few years ago, I let Buddy out back, because I heard our neighbor dog, Lily, screaming like crazy out there, with a bark that was unlike anything I'd heard before. Buddy joined in the screaming. I went out, and saw a man standing in the backyard, pointing something at the dogs. It made a clicking sound. I called the police, and (miraculously!) two cruisers pulled up into my front yard in less than a minute. Turns out that this was a slightly-limited but very tall teenage boy who had just moved into the apartment behind mine, was cutting through the yard to get home, and had some sort of toy he was pointing at the dogs. Not a sensible move, but understandable given the kid's situation. When I described for the police what the dogs had done, they said, "That's not a bad thing, lady." So I let Buddy bark at strangers who come near the house. I just work on training him to be quiet when I ask. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyler Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 So I let Buddy bark at strangers who come near the house. I just work on training him to be quiet when I ask. Exactly. This is the same thing when dogs bark at a door bell or whatever. I personally want them to be heard at the door; especially when I am not home with the wife and kids. My last BC that has now passed on wouldnt stop barking until he heard "enough or OK" and then he would just sit there. I enjoy a protective dog so long as it is restrained and there is no chase or charge given. So long as they respond consistently to a command that means to let the gaurd down its fine. Koda doesnt do anything and really hasnt seemed to care about the doorbell or a knock - even with my little chihuahua yapping her head off. Zak also doesnt seem to mind. Im wondering if they are going to pick it up eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 One could always desensitize the heck out of the Border Collie and adopt an LGD... Yes, that was a joke! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted March 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Thanks for all the suggestions and stories! I definitely need to proof her quiet-on-cue - it's not bad, but it's not perfect either. I've also asked some classmates to come over so she gets used to strangers entering the apartment. One challenge (maybe exacerbated by living in a hotbed of artistic/political counter-culture?) is that we have such a high density of people exhibiting what I'd have a hard time accepting as "normal" human behavior. And that's just my take - so I have to guard my own feelings about these types in order to not set her off. Frankly, I think she's justified in barking at the people who yell to provoke her, but my desire to not be evicted is overriding my sense of fair-play. *sigh*. The joys of city life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Solo has protected me appropriately on a number of occasions. His demeanor in these situations is nothing like his fearful reaction to some strangers. It is assured and businesslike. To him it's clearly a different situation -- I think because the people he protects me from are easy to read (they are hostile), unlike the people who freak him out personally, who are (to him) unpredictable and difficult to read. He is problematically protective of spaces like crates, or the car. I will admit I never worked on the car thing because it is a "variant of normal" behavior (rather than out and out weird), and because it is not a terrible thing to have a dog who barks at people outside the car when you live alone in the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxgloveBC Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Along somewhat of the same lines of the dogs knowing if a person is any good or not, a sort of funny story that really made me sit down and think: I was dating a guy for a few months a while back and when he would walk in the door, Yoshi my Sheltie would NOT shut up! He would bark and bark at him until I had to get on to Yoshi to get him to quiet. It wasnt the normal hey you are new bark. It was a bit different. Well in the end, the guy ended up not treating me all that great. I wonder if Yoshi was just a better judge at character than I was. It really made me think!! However, Foxy has never met a stranger, she LOVES people and PEOPLE are the most exciting thing in the world. I really have worked with her more on sounds and people doing things such as running or working on things (hammering, drilling, and such) Foxy is already a lot better than Yoshi, who since his injury has become more reactive to things Also, if I feel uncomfortable in any situation where I feel like my dog might spring out of control (not in aggression, but either of fear or excitmenet) I tend to use the Gentle Leader. With Yoshi, not so much he has always been pretty good. Foxy though, I tend to use it when I think things will set her over the top in excitement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Also, she dislikes men who smoke... Senneca also hates cigarette smokers. She goes especially crazy if she sees someone lighting up. There's got to be something bad that happened in her former life that she associates with smokers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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