Seizures/dementia/extreme fear

[kaos]

Hi Every one

 

I am hoping some one may recognize these symptoms and offer words of help. We have a vet appointment booked for next week (earliest we could get in).

 

My Sam (Shep/Collie/Rottie/Hound...seriously!) has always been a one person kind of dog and very strongly bonded to me. In the last three weeks she has begun having these "episodes". She will find my husband or me and cozy right up close to us (ie: on our feet if we are sitting or standing) or climb right into our laps and will be shaking violently. She will not stop shaking even if we take her to another room of the house and pet and try to calm her using the calming techniques we were taught by our behaviourist. There is no trigger that we can see or situation that brings it on that is consistently the same. It is also very odd that when I am in the house and accessible that she will seek out my husband and spend hours glued to him or spend a long extended time outdoors in the backyard just standing. (She is a very slim dog, whippet like, with very little coat and it is usually well below zero around here.

 

We are wondering if these could be a type of seizure or perhaps if she is experiencing dementia and becomes frightened and doesn't remember where she is or what is going on..... Could this be any thing else that you can think of? I am very frightened and not ready yet to lose my girl. She is 10 years old (doesn't seem old enough yet for mental deterioration), in really decent shape (Approx 50 lbs and up to my knees in height) and fed Canidae with either EVO red meat mixed in or California Naturals Herring and Sweet Potatoe with a daily fish oil capsule, vitamin E and Gluc/Cond/Msm. I hate to think of her being this terrified that all she can do is shake and I have resorted to giving her benadryl/ antihistamines to dope her up and relax her.

 

Any ideas welcome.

Sara

[nancy in AZ]

Are you sure it's fear? The first question that came to mind is could this be a pain reaction? Have you palpated her along the spine? Do you feel any heat or notice any distension of the belly? Does she appear disoriented? How responsive is she to your voice or other stimuli during these episodes. Is there any lack of coordination? If you lift her hind foot and set it with the top of the paw on the ground will she immediately right it? Is her breathing more rapid or heart rate elevated during these episodes? Do her pupils respond to a penlight?

 

Minnie has come to me with similar behavior on three different occasion where severe pain was the cause. The first incident was a focal seizure coupled with spinal pain (it was probably a mild stroke according to the neuro vet), the second was a bad disk in her spine and the third was an intestinal impaction.

 

Whatever the cause I hope you get some answers and get it sorted out for her. I know how terrifying this can be. The only other suggestion I would offer is if the symptoms appear to get any worse-- more intense or more frequent, I would tell the vet it's become acute and insist on bringing her in.

[kaos]

Hi Nancy

 

Thanks for your quick response, any and all info is really helpful.

 

Your right it may not be a fear response, she isn't super salivating, nor are her eyes overly huge and freaky, although her ears are pinned back. She shivers and shakes or glues herself to our sides. This is unusual because she isn't an overly affectionate girl, when she wants attention she will approach and stand quietly in your presence and wait for a pet or poke you to demand one, not snuggle up or glue herself to you for any contact at all. She doesn't appear disoriented so much as unreachable. She will sit, come follow, do all of her commands but will be velcro. Her co-ordination is fine she can do stairs and jump up on beds or furniture with no issues. Her breathing is certainly elevated and rapid. I will look at her pupils during the next episode.

 

I was wondering if she was experiencing small strokes or seizures too, however, there is never any lasting damage that we can tell. The episodes occur about two maybe three times per week and generally last any where from 20 minutes to a few hours.

 

I wonder if your right about acute pain, our other dog (Kaos) doesn't become agitated or upset when Sam is freaking out which is unusual. Kaos is usually a lightening rod of Sam's mental state. If Sam is upset Kaos gets upset etc. If Kaos can sense that Sam isn't fearful but in pain that may explain why she isn't reacting. I guess.... I don't know, this sucks. Its been 4 days since her last shiver, we'll see if it continues, My son has an MRI scheduled soon, I joked that I wanted to pop Sam on the bottom of the tray at his feet and have them both scanned..... would be nice.

 

Sara

[mbc1963]

No expertise at all... but my dog stabbed himself on a stick about a month ago. Because he screamed and then limped on his back leg, I kept checking his rear end for a wound or painful area. Nothing. But the dog kept sticking to me like velcro - he wouldn't leave my side and had his body literally touching my calf/knee at all times. Finally, he jumped up, yelped when I touched him, and I found the hole in his chest.

 

So... pain caused the same behaviors you're describing in my dog. I wish your dog's problem was as easy to diagnose, but I've heard of other dogs getting really clingy when they were sick. In some book I read, the author used this clinginess as an the first symptom of a physical (not cognitive) illness later diagnosed. I think the book may have been "The Dog Who Loved Too Much" by Nicholas Dodman.

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

[nancy in AZ]

If you can get video during an episode it could be helpful (even if not in time for your appt) for a diagnosis. Does she pant heavily when this happens? Have you tried giving her a pain reliever to see if it makes a difference?

 

I wish you and Sam all the best. Waiting for answers sucks big time!

[Eileen Stein]

I'm thinking pain also. Clingy behavior and shivering is a very typical reaction to pain in some dogs.

 

Good luck, and please let us know what the vet says. Sorry you have to wait so long to take her in.

[Kyrasmom]

My oldest dog had something that sounds similar when he was around ten. He wouldn't necessarily seek us out but he would skake uncontrollably and just not move. We had the works done, including an MRI. The only thing we found is that he has an incredibly slow heart rate, he's always been extremely fit. I hate to say it but the vet ended up ruling it a bit of a mystery, we had video taped it for her and everything. She thinks it's related to his heart but when hooked up to machines, aside from the beat of an athlete, they couldn't find anything else. He had three or four episodes and in the past three years, he's had none. The only thing that changed is that we had him neutered so I don't know if hormones were doing something.

 

Sorry to not have any answers, it sounds very similar to what we experienced. I'll be very curious to see what your vet says. One thing our vet had us do is look for a pulse during the episodes and record the rate.

 

Maria

[bcnewe2]

I just went through something simular with Mick (4yrs old) He goes almost everywhere with me. Been riding in the car his whole life. If we go somewhere where dogs are not allowed he happily stays in the car. Kinda like his crate (it's a small car). But last week we went for a ride in my daughters SUV First time my daughter was in the back seat so he climbed in her lap and seemed a bit clingy then later I was in the SUV alone and he was really starting to act funny, Skip a day and we go home in our car. He rode the whole six hours with his head under the seat trembling and very uncomfortable I even gave him a benidryl to try and help him sleep (it's all I had in my purse), it didn't do anything for him. I couldn't figure it out. It's been a week, and he seems ready to get back in the car. I finally figured out that while in my daughters car the tires were making a horrible noise. Not that bad to me but to Mick he must have thought the world was coming to an end. She got new tires and the noise is gone. BUt at this time I'm not willing to test him in that car again. The poor guy was just miserable. Even though it was our normal car on the way home he had carried the phobia over to our car.

 

Long and short of it, could somthing be happening around your house that you or your SO are not aware of? Distant thunder that you don't hear? Construction being done far enough away that you aren't registering the noise? Even a truck or somthing driving past that's making a noise that she's hearing and you're missing? A sound sensitive dog can be really sensitive to things that you wouldn't even think of. Does it happen when you are away from home?

 

Just thinking out loud. Good luck and I hope it turns into something easy to fix.

 

Kristen

[MaggieDog]

The sound thing may not be far off - I had a friend whose dog had veeery similar episodes and they too thought it might be seizures. After much evaluation and examination of the patterns of "seizures" they realized that Paprika was reacting to some sound the oven made when it was on. The humans heard nothing, but it was enough to really freak the dog out.

[kaos]

Thanks Eileen for correcting the title for me, I appreciate the help

 

We haven't had an episode in several days now, but she is still more clingy than usual. I, too, wondered about her being able to sense something that we couldn't, like a high pitched noise from an appliance (fridge etc) that we couldn't hear, but it isn't always when the oven is on or we are consistently using something else... although it is possible that the sound is made occasionally by something, our fridge is very peculiar.

 

Maybe she can smell a wire smoldering in the walls (eep), Sam has become sound reactive (fireworks, gunshots, fire alarms) in the last few years, but she is usually feeding off of Kaos's reactivity at that point, and Kaos isn't reacting. Likewise, Sam has always been terrified of fire (not fireplaces or campfires but burnt food or BBQs... I always thought it was because she was frightened of the fire alarm, but again Kaos will freak as well and she isn't. So, I am drawing a blank.

 

I can't find any part of her body that she is sensitive about and I have molested her fairly thoroughly. I guess until the next episode we will have to play the waiting game. Thanks so much for every ones help, I really appreciate the ideas, suggestions and support. Hopefully, they never occur again and we can chalk it up to crazy Saminess, bu tif they do we will be seeing the vet.

Sara

[vanillalove]

Petey went through this exact thing when he was younger! We weren't sure what happened but we heard a crash and found him hiding behind the couch and seizing. He is normally a very affectionate dog, and during episodes he would hide into places I would have never thought of! The vet thought it was epilepsy for a long while, but it ended up being that the crash we heard was him falling between the couch and the side table to chase the ferret. He must've hurt his spine, and he had a lot of "seizures" for a week or so after it happened. To this day, he doesn't like being held in a certain way that puts pressure on his lower spine which I assume is from the accident.

 

I hope everything goes well and maybe ask the vet if it could be some minor spinal injury. Thinking about you and Sam!

 

Kayla

[Rave]

My old girl went through something similar, in fact I posted on here about it (I'll search for that post). Except her episodes were much more extreme, to the point where she would literally be climbing the walls, escaping through windows, over fences, etc... She was definitely shaking out of fear. We ruled out everything, even did a brain scan, and came to the conclusion they were behavioral seizures. Once she was put on Phenobarb, the episodes stopped and I could sleep again. Unfortunately there's no test for this, other than if the Phenobarb helps, than that's what it was.

 

If the episodes are mild and she doesn't seem to be in pain, I'd just continue to monitor her.

 

edit... Here's the link to my thread: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...c=10111&hl=

The technical term is psychomotor seizures.

Good luck!

[diane allen]

You've gotten good suggestions - I'd think pain also, vs. fear.

Do ask your vet - I don't want to be alarmist - about hemangiosarcoma. You can read about it on various web sites, but if she's having 'minor bleeds' and its painful, that may be the cause. You definitely want to rule this out, as when a 'major bleed' happens, it can be fatal very quickly. Dogs get it on their heart and spleen - but mine decided to be slightly different, has it on her liver, but her spleen is OK. She had a minor weak spell that cause me to take her in and get the diagnosis. No surgery or treatment recommended, and none done (she pretty much hates vets). She's 12 (it usually happens with older dogs, and some of the breeds you mention are high risk), but now going on week 6 of her "a few days to a few weeks" prognosis. Hope yours is something simpler and easy to treat!!

 

diane

[Eileen Stein]

It could be some sound or smell that is undetectible by you, and I hope that's it, but hemangiosarcoma is a good thought also, unfortunately. I hope she is better, but if she does have another episode, check her gums to see if they are very pale.

[kaos]

She hasn't had an episode in over a week now and they seemed to start to lessen in the weeks before then. I am frightened of the Hemangiosarcoma idea and will be researching it thoroughly so I have an understanding of it and can discuss it with our vet if the episodes return. Thanks every one for the help and well wishes. I will be monitoring her gums and have been spoiling her rotten for awhile now for the just incase possibility that it is something awful.

Sara

[Eileen Stein]

If they are diminishing, it seems to me it's more likely that it was environmental. Good.

[kaos]

Hi Every One

 

I just thought I would update this thread. We have finally figured out what was causing Sam's "episodes". She was/is terrified of the "ping" noise that the computer made whenever we received email. We have witnessed her go into full panic/cling mode several times and were able to narrow it down very quickly once we realized what prompted the behaviour. We have now changed the computer settings and she has been doing just fine (except when hubby accidentally turned the ping back on.... JA). Thanks again every one for all the help, I love the community support aspect of these boards and I don't post very often but rest assured I am reading them every day!

 

Sara

[MaggieDog]

Amazing what our dogs pick up on isn't it. Glad you got it all sorted out and a happy ending too.

[Liz P]

I have a BC that HATES cell phone ring tones with a passion. She is not afraid of them but pins her ears back and looks annoyed if she hears one. If it is an option she leaves the room/area. Cell phone rings on TV don't bother her. My regular phone is ignored. She is not noise phobic so I can only conclude that the tone must really hurt her ears. I guess it is same with people and fingernails on a chalk board

[ThunderHill]

Chiming in very late... a friend's dog was acting like this. It turned out to be caused by a dying smoke detector in the basement. The middle-aged humans didn't notice the increasingly faint alarm tone over the general house and street noise. A visiting six year old human with excellent high-end hearing finally figured it out. They replaced the smoke detector battery, the clingy frightened behavior stopped. Glad you found out what was going on with your dog, and that it was something easy to remedy! (I was worried about the anxious dog being in pain, too. Huge sigh of relief that all is well.)