what do you consider a started dog?

[Bo Peep]

I've had several dogs that ran in N?N that had an outrun- 100-300 yards or more, lift, fetch and turn around the post and drive (one legged-ed, return and pen. That's what I would consider a started dog. Any thoughts on that? Is that a started dog? A dog that "off-set" know their flanks? I think that type of dog would be worth 1,500.00. Am I wrong? It would certainly win a N/N trial and be "proven" - Just trying to ask as I am considering a 'Trained Dog". Now what do I expect in that? A retired dog, that just needs a good home that needs very little exercise and just some TLC and someone that would love him and pay very close attention to him. Probably NOT trial from him, yet give him a nice home, a little work, as he seems comfortable and pay his med bills. After this many years, I need a dog to show me the ropes.

Dianne

Any opinions or where to search for a BC? You KNOW this is a good home. 20!+ years in border collies. Sure, I've missed a couple years in training, but am ready to get back. I trained my own from scratch- didn't get me too far. But I'm willing to learn. All my dogs are inside, spoiled rotten, as you can tell by my pics and loved to my best ability. Dominate female resides, but can be taught her place- I'd love it.

[kelpiegirl]

I'm confused- are you looking for a started dog? Or, do you want to know if the price for the dog that is started, that you are looking at, is worth $1500? If you aren't going to trial, for sure, but you may want to, there are loads of 8 mo + dogs out there who have good breeding and would be happy to live with you. I think what you list as started is reasonable- that's what I would talk about- but I wouldn't say that n/n is a good benchmark- pro-novice more likely- that is not to say that the n/n dog couldn't be great, but rather, the pn dog may have a handler who has been around the block with a few dogs, and feels that that dog is a good one. But, again, if you aren't going to trial, then it is all academic- the sheep training, anyway. If you are going to trial, head out to the trials near you, or if you still know folks that you trust in the biz, so to speak, put the word out. Good luck

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I look past the labels and want to see and hear what the dog actually does. Dogs have to do certain things to be minimally useful here - gather sheep at 150 yards (preferably 300, however), have a good stop and hold, good solid flanks, and pretty much know left from right in a variety of situations. This dog might be 2K or more. Anything less, depending on age of course, would be in the $1500 range. I've seen "started" dogs advertised as such, that were just barely going around the sheep in a round pen, up to a dog that was running a nursery course (but not yet trialing), all at the same price.

 

Most people advertise a dog at slightly above the dog's actual skill level. It's just the way it is, not anyone trying to be deceptive - it's like they are advertising the dog's immediate potential. Plus, many times they really are at that level in training situations, but I don't consider training situations to be a true reflection of what a dog can do under pressure, whether working or trialing. Most sellers will immediately clarify this point when you start talking to them directly about what the dog can do in specific terms.

 

You also have to take into account that without some pretty intense training (or a high level of skill on your part), it may take up to a year to get out of a dog what is really trained into him.

 

Now, I talk with the jaded voice of someone who's been used and abused - but in fact I've always been very happy with my dog dealings. I've dealt with many people who were straight up, and set dog prices at a reasonable level, and the dogs were "as advertised." As with buying a puppy, I think the key is dealing with someone I trust and have built a relationship with, rather than snatching up the first cool looking fancy-papered dog that catches my eye.

[juliepoudrier]

I consider a started dog one that will gather the sheep at some minimal distance, say, 150 yards, and will flank in both directions, stop, and do a bit of driving. The dog doesn't necessarily have to be solid on its flank commands, but it should have a basic understanding of right vs. left. I would expect such a dog to be around $1,500. The more time and trianing put on the dog from there, the more I'd expect to pay.

 

Dogs trained to open level can be all over the map, depending on what faults they may have (say, not a good shedder or habitually stops short on the outrun or is tight). If I were looking for a fully trained dog not to trial but just to help around the farm, I'd look for someone trying to place an older open dog who still has a few good years left, but who maybe can't compete at the highest levels any longer or just needs to make way for younger dogs coming up in that person's kennel. Such dogs can be had for a good price, and sometimes even free to the right home.

 

What fully trained or just trained means is pretty subjective. The best thing to do is to actually see the dog work, but even then, if it's working at home on familiar stock you might get an "inflated" idea of its skill level. Still, it's better to see the dog work than not before parting with your money and getting your expectations up.

 

J.

[Bo Peep]

I guess what I'm actually looking for is a retired dog. One that can show me the ropes, One I should have bought about 15 years ago. LOL. I've "started" way too many dogs myself, only to end up where I started and never sold them as "started dogs". I just kept them. Any idea where to look? I'd take a dog that isn't a good shedder. I'm no where near the open class. I'd be happy with a little hat, myself.

[MickeyDogs]

Bo Peep, Patrick Shannahan is in Caldwell, ID, (not sure how close that is to you). He'd certainly be a place to start. Here's his website

[Laurae]

Isn't Caldwell basically a suburb of Boise? My ex was originally from Caldwell. Lucky you, Dianne!

[Bo Peep]

Thanks for the link. Yes, he's pretty close to me. I took a couple lessons with my old dog. His prices don't seem too bad. It says a solid driving dog is around 2,000. Guess I should save my pennies and have a chat with him. I even know the gal on the front of his web page. Small world.