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I need some help with this problem.8 mos old BC,alpha female,spayed,trained easily with all the basics,however has an acute fixation with cars or for that matter anything on wheels.She is still on leash and walks well at the heel position.At the first sign of an approaching set of wheels she goes in to the crouch and becomes fixated until the car is abreast and then she lunges and barks until it is past.I have tried just about everything prong collar,tincan with coins,harsh words and even a product called spray commander training collar.If I get agressive she responds in kind.This is the first BC that I have had that is that fixated with cars.The only thing I have not tried is the electric training collar and I'am not sure I should.

Is there anyone who had a similar problem? and if so what was the solution.

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What worked with Fergie was saving the shake can until the car was right there, then giving it one huge shake by her ear. And yelling, "NO!!!" real loud.

 

Of course, Fergie is thunder phobic. So loud noises have a real effect.

 

Of course, she now stops whenever a car comes. Still usually crouches. But that's all.

 

Well, DH did have one time when he read her up one side and down the other. That's probably part of it. Whatever - it has worked for about 12 years and about 5 walks a day.

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I need some help with this problem.8 mos old BC,alpha female,spayed,trained easily with all the basics,however has an acute fixation with cars or for that matter anything on wheels.She is still on leash and walks well at the heel position.At the first sign of an approaching set of wheels she goes in to the crouch and becomes fixated until the car is abreast and then she lunges and barks until it is past.I have tried just about everything prong collar,tincan with coins,harsh words and even a product called spray commander training collar.If I get agressive she responds in kind.This is the first BC that I have had that is that fixated with cars.The only thing I have not tried is the electric training collar and I'am not sure I should.

Is there anyone who had a similar problem? and if so what was the solution.

 

What you need to do is work you dog at her subthreshold level and counter condition HER to give you a different response, such as look at you. To work subthreshold you need to take her some place that you can be far enough from the moving vehicles that she does not react. I will usually pick a park etc where I can be as far back as I need to be. I will then reward my dog with lots of yummy treats for sitting beside me and not react. Once I know the dog is relaxed I will ask for a "watch me" or whatever. Then I slowly close the distance between my dog and the vehicles. I also find using a Gentle Leader or a Halti beneficial as I can control the head.

 

The other thing that I will do is get a friend to help me. I will go to an empty parking lot and get myself set up and then have my friend drive there car around the perimeter. Again, I have to make sure that I can have the dog at a distance where it will not react, and will look at me to trigger me to give a treat.

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Annie was conditioned early on to understand the word "BAD!". When she was a pup, she had the same fascination with anything with two or more wheels and an internal combustion engine. When she would start to take off, I would yell, "BAD CAR!" and restrain her. For the most part, she finally got the message. But for some unknown reason, BOTH dogs absolutely HATE the UPS truck; when I know it is in the neighborhood, I have to restrain them both.

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What Northof49 said. Teaching the dog that you want her to do something else instead of lunging tends to work better than just trying to stop the lunging without asking for something else. I have a dog who reacts to motorcycles, and I've taught her that as long as she can sit quietly, she is still allowed to watch the motorcycle go by. "Go into a sit when you see or hear a motorcycle" is the default behavior I've taught her, but "look at me" is another good one. You should be able to decide what will work best for your dog -- it just needs to be a behavior that is incompatible with the behavior you want to stop.

 

Cars are a relatively easy problem to solve, because it's so easy to set up well-controlled training situations that are appropriate to the dog's current level of self-control. Not only can you control how close the distraction is, by starting way back from a road and moving progressively closer as the training proceeds, but you can also control the intensity of the distraction. Start someplace where the speed limit is really slow (e.g. a school zone) and traffic is infrequent (e.g. on a weekend, or whatever), then move gradually to more and faster cars as long as the dog can still perform the behavior you want.

 

Done right, you will end up with a dog that CHOOSES to do what you want when cars go by, rather than one you will be constantly correcting forever after.

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My BC mix, Baxter, became fixated on cars, planes, bikes, strollers around 4 or 5 months old. It very quickly progressed to lounging and spinning at the end of the leash. I spent many leashed walks with a treat bag rewarding him for "leave it" and focusing on me. I have progressed to the point where he will still creep and stare, but it is controlled. I use commands such as down, slow, and ease up on our walks now. He thinks he is working and we no longer use treats on the walks. He also knows he is not allowed to walk in the street - must stay on the grass or sidewalk. Anytime we need to cross the street I say "cross" and he does so quickly. Fast moving cars are significantly more tempting than slow moving cars. And although I have been able to call him off a car when he bolted out the front door (my other dog broke her stay to greet someone so he did too as a car went by), I still always leash him anytime we might encounter traffic. It is just too tempting for him. Nice to have an emergency recall. The other issue I had with him was riding in the car. He was lounging at the windshield trying to get to cars as a pup. I quickly fixed that with a travel crate. About 3 or 4 months later he began barking and spinning inside the crate at the traffic. I initially tried a sheet over the crate, but he was still able to hear the cars or see shadows. So I had to resort to the dreaded pink water spray bottle - his arch enemy. He is terrified of it. I sprayed him with water once, then a few times after that all I had to do was say "hey" and show him the pink bottle. He rides quietly now. For a dog that does not miss an opportunity to splash in mud puddles or swim I have no idea why he hates being sprayed water. Hope some of this will help.

 

Mel, Bonnie, and the Baxter

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I'm another with a wannabe car-chaser. I've been working on conditioning her to turn to me (for a reward) as soon as she hears a car coming as we walk along - roads with infrequent traffic seem to be worse for her than walking along a main road with constant traffic. Because I'm basically lazy, I've just been marking her head turn to me with a verbal marker, but I think it would be more powerful with a clicker as the marker.

 

We've just this minute come back from a lunch time walk along the country road near the school I work at. She got rewarded for turning to me for about a dozen cars - this happens 4 days a week when I'm at work.

 

I have to say though, that it's still an ongoing management tool, not a cure. She still thinks about chasing sometimes, but about 99% of the time, turns back to me pretty quickly. I don't prompt her - I'm thinking that if she makes the decision to turn to me, that's more powerful.

 

Oh - and the other thing with this method - be careful what you wish for. She's now hanging back when it's time to turn into the school grounds - telling me "there might be a car coming - another chance to earn a reward!"

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post-8400-1205800599_thumb.jpg

 

post-8400-1205800990_thumb.jpg

 

My BC mix, Baxter, became fixated on cars, planes, bikes, strollers around 4 or 5 months old. It very quickly progressed to lounging and spinning at the end of the leash. I spent many leashed walks with a treat bag rewarding him for "leave it" and focusing on me. I have progressed to the point where he will still creep and stare, but it is controlled. I use commands such as down, slow, and ease up on our walks now. He thinks he is working and we no longer use treats on the walks. He also knows he is not allowed to walk in the street - must stay on the grass or sidewalk. Anytime we need to cross the street I say "cross" and he does so quickly. Fast moving cars are significantly more tempting than slow moving cars. And although I have been able to call him off a car when he bolted out the front door (my other dog broke her stay to greet someone so he did too as a car went by), I still always leash him anytime we might encounter traffic. It is just too tempting for him. Nice to have an emergency recall. The other issue I had with him was riding in the car. He was lounging at the windshield trying to get to cars as a pup. I quickly fixed that with a travel crate. About 3 or 4 months later he began barking and spinning inside the crate at the traffic. I initially tried a sheet over the crate, but he was still able to hear the cars or see shadows. So I had to resort to the dreaded pink water spray bottle - his arch enemy. He is terrified of it. I sprayed him with water once, then a few times after that all I had to do was say "hey" and show him the pink bottle. He rides quietly now. For a dog that does not miss an opportunity to splash in mud puddles or swim I have no idea why he hates being sprayed water. Hope some of this will help.

 

Mel, Bonnie, and the Baxter

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I tested the water spray method tonite and actually got a more positive response than earlier.She at least backed off and had second thoughts.I will try again on the morning walk.

 

Thank you all for your most welcome input.

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I tested the water spray method tonite and actually got a more positive response than earlier.She at least backed off and had second thoughts.I will try again on the morning walk.

 

Thank you all for your most welcome input.

 

The problem with using strictly punishment is that you don't CHANGE the behaviour, you merely suppress it. Your dog will still want to engage in the unwanted behaviour - she just will learn not to so she doesn't get punished, providing the punishment always is strong enough incentive to suppress the unwanted behaviour. Your dog also may very well learn when you have the spray bottle and when you don't. As well, in the future, you may find that you might need to spray your dog for whatever reason with something, and all the dog will understand is that you are punishing her for whatever she happens to be doing at the time. Why not put the effort into changing your dog's behaviorial response to the stimuli of the moving vehicles.? Changing the dogs behavioural response to the vehicles will eliminate the dog's desire to want to chase the vehicles.

 

I have had to work with a lot of Border Collies coming off of farms for car chasing, and changing the dog's response to the cars to something like a watch me or a calm sit has always been one of the easier things to teach them.

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I agree with trying many of the tactics stated above. However, do not be afraid to escalate until your dog responds. Some react differently than others. I had this issue with Koda as well that seemingly came out of nowhere, although I should have seen the warning sign. He used to HIDE behind me when cars would go by. Well, stupid me should have seen that for what it was but didnt until he got bold enough to chase them.

 

I tried treats, frisbee, ball and so on with the result being "I dont care what you have because there is a car!". So corrective physical punishment became necessary. I used a choke/slip collar and took him where there were frequent cars going by. As soon as he would crouch I IMMEDIATELY give the correction and walk the other way. He got squirrely and showed a bit of a nasty side to him but it was all show. Next car and he crouched again; I responded with three very hard pops in quick succession and took him the opposite direction. If he looked back he got popped again and told "look here!". If he did what I was asking he was LAVISHED with praise - and I mean you love him like never before with high pitched voice and total excitement. It didnt happen overnight but dramatic results could be seen. Now, if there is a car going by and he looks I just use, "Ah ah ah!!!" and his head goes straight ahead - hes about 5.5 calendar months old now.

 

He can now be off of a leash and see a car go by. He may look but there is no crouch and its more of a glance and he goes about his business. I would say that if you need a shock collar as a last resort then do it. I encourage using the least aggressive techniques first and give them a chance. No improvement?.....Then escalate. This is a matter of your dog's life and is not abusing your puppy - its called tough love. If it means having a dog that enjoys his life and I dont have to freak if he gets out at the door then I will do WHATEVER it takes to keep him safe. When people get all bent out of shape about shock collars I tell them its a matter of increased response (if needed) and its either that or a bumper - you choose. Its funny that many of the people I have talked with that are extremely opposed to shock collars have the invisible fence - whats the difference?

 

Sorry that this was blunt but I care that your dog has a long, healthy and happy life. Good luck!

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Guess some folks have never seen the effect shock collars AND invisible fences can have...

 

There are better ways of doing things to change how a dog feels about stuff that causes a dog to react.

Aggression begets aggression .

The biggest problem is that most people for whom desensitization 'doesn't work' are working too close and

expecting results too quickly.

Someone advocating 'use of force' over an internet forum could really open up a can of worms if someone gets bit.

Just food for thought.

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Guess some folks have never seen the effect shock collars AND invisible fences can have...

 

There are better ways of doing things to change how a dog feels about stuff that causes a dog to react.

Aggression begets aggression .

The biggest problem is that most people for whom desensitization 'doesn't work' are working too close and

expecting results too quickly.

Someone advocating 'use of force' over an internet forum could really open up a can of worms if someone gets bit.

Just food for thought.

 

Im assuming that this was in response to my post. I understand your position but did express this:

 

"I would say that if you need a shock collar as a last resort then do it. I encourage using the least aggressive techniques first and give them a chance. No improvement?.....Then escalate. This is a matter of your dog's life and is not abusing your puppy - its called tough love."

 

What Im saying is if the lesser does not work (and it doesnt in many many cases) dont give up. Use whatever technique you have to (escalating bit by bit) to save your dogs life. Its that simple. You can give your kid a cookie to not play with matches or try positive reward - and sometimes that works (yes, its understated and a loose anaology). But sometimes they need a crack on the butt.

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Sorry, guess we'll agree to disagree... hitting/ smacking kids or dogs doesn't solve the underlying problem... You end up with dog or kid that's

'scared'. A lot of folks have neither the patience or savvy and end up pushing too far with the end result being dogs biting out of self defense/ fear/confusion and promptly labeled 'aggressive' .

 

Tough love can work with kids that can rationalize and understand... dogs? Not so much. If 'cranking' worked on your dog , fine... I still

don't agree anyone should really advocate this ESPECIALLY without seeing the dog . Non confrontational ways of working with a dog will not run

the risk of someone possibly being hurt... That's my point.

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As soon as he would crouch I IMMEDIATELY give the correction and walk the other way.

 

If you're correcting at the moment of the crouch you're waiting too long. The correction should be given as soon as the dog * *looks* at the car, and used then only if she is unwilling to give you her attention at that moment by any other means. Also, unless you are proficient at knowing the *exact* moment when to adminster the punishment, be it shock or reprimand, (but particularly shock)you could quite possibly do more harm than good.

 

It may be something that you'll never be able to train out of her, so simply being prepared to keep her safe could be the best you can do.

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...hitting/ smacking kids or dogs doesn't solve the underlying problem... You end up with dog or kid that's

'scared'.

 

Tough love can work with kids that can rationalize and understand... dogs? Not so much. If 'cranking' worked on your dog , fine... I still.

 

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree here - and thats fine. My statement about smacking a kid in the butt was to refer to using a choker if needed and not to hit the dog by hand. I wouldnt do that for obvious reasons. Tough love is doing something that you dont want to do and being harder on them because its a last resort. And "cranking" on my dog is not what happened - thats abuse. Very firm pops have been used for years, are still being used and by extremely reputable trainers. If you pop hard enough to move your dogs feet then its too hard and so abuse. I have never caused fear in any dog I have ever trained and all my Borders have loved me to death and been loved the same in return.

 

I do agree that if one is not comfortable using such techniques as a last resort then seek professional help. Never put yourself into a situation you do not feel you can handle assuredly!

 

If you're correcting at the moment of the crouch you're waiting too long. The correction should be given as soon as the dog * *looks* at the car, and used then only if she is unwilling to give you her attention at that moment by any other means.

 

Agreed in your theory. However, in my case Koda would crouch instantly so the look and crouch happen at the same time. It may be different from dog to dog. Attention could not be had using any means at all - total fixation. As soon as the dog responds in a way that is positive then do as I stated: "If he did what I was asking he was LAVISHED with praise - and I mean you love him like never before with high pitched voice and total excitement."

 

So to the original poster of this thread I suggest using your own common sense and if uncomfortable seek the advice of a trainer.

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Skyler, My apologies... I just get kinda nervous when 'corrections' are advocated because I've seen waaaay too many folks hear/read/try

stuff and dogs pay the price.

 

No harm no foul BC4Pack. You just advocated your point of view and that is what this forum is all about; so long as it is civil. I too should probably be more careful when suggesting things to people because not everyone has the experience to know what is to much and how to do it. To me, its second nature, but to others I see that it could be an issue. I think a major part is the trainer being comfortable and confident in what they do too. That easily translates to the dog.

 

I certainly dont advocate being mean to a dog, only that if it takes getting to the point of a strong correction (in the right situation) I will use it. I love my dogs WAY...and I mean....WAY to much to see them get seriously hurt or killed. Im not saying the original poster is incompetent in any way, but you are right that there are incompetent folks who could hurt their dog. You are right to say what you said. But at the same time I also feel that what I am saying is equally valid.

 

So no appologies needed, but thanks my friend for stating them anyway. I just get kinda nervous when folks think that they have only treats in their bag of tricks and arent willing to do what it takes to ensure Fido is a safe boy. We see the same coin I think just looking at it from opposite sides.

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