recall issues

[jfaircloth]

Our almost 9-month-old BC has great recall in the house and in our back yard, but when we take him to the dog park, we cannot get his attention to save our lives. He wants to do nothing but chase and play with the other dogs, and when it's time to leave, he completely ignores us. We have to trick him to catch him. We were hoping we could get him interested in chasing tennis balls, so that we could have some control over the thing that he chases, but he'd much rather chase the dogs that are chasing the tennis balls.

 

We have tried "that'll do," which he responds to really well at home, even when he's distracted by our other dog or our neighbors' dogs. We've tried "come," we've tried holding out a treat (but he's not very food motivated), and we've tried pretending to leave without him. Nothing works.

 

Any suggestions or ideas for getting his attention in distracting situations? Do you think the situation will improve after he's been neutered the week after next (not that we're counting the days or anything... )?

[Jedismom]

Is he food motivated at all? Though having food at a dog park can be risky I guess.

 

I've been teaching Jedi to come from long distances with distractions using a whistle, followed by an extra special treat like real chicken

[jfaircloth]

Is he food motivated at all? Though having food at a dog park can be risky I guess.

 

I've been teaching Jedi to come from long distances with distractions using a whistle, followed by an extra special treat like real chicken

 

We're not supposed to bring treats into the dog park, and he's not really food motivated anyway. We have a standard "that'll do" whistle for him that he responds to at home, but he won't respond at the park.

[1sheepdoggal]

Well, first off, you dont have "recall issues", you simply dont have a recall on your dog. Yes, it comes when called in the yard, and in the house, because it knows its name, and theres nothing going on thats extreamly excieting at the moment, so when it hears you, it comes in hopes that you may have something for it. Thats not a recall. A recall is when you can call a dog under any circumstances and it comes. Once it is solid and consistant in that, and starts to deviate from to that, then, you have recall issues. So, first you must understand what a recall is, before you can begin to understand how to get one.

My suggestion, is to go back the basics. Come, down, heel, sit, stay. Make sure the dog is consistant in all of these on lead, ( a 6 ft lead to start with ) progressing to a 30 ft line, and consistant there too, before allowing the dog off the line. The recall is best trained after you have a solid sit stay or down stay on the dog, then you can call it to you while it is motionless, and hopfully focused on you and waiting for the next command. Then, and only then, set it up in an area where there is small amounts of distraction, (still on a 30 foot line, though it should be on the ground and the dog draging it by now) and start getting a recall. If it pays no attention when you call it, reel it in and start over, until it learns that it either comes of its own accord, or your going to bring it back. Dont make it pleasant if you have to reel it in, be very bussiness like, no praise or talking to it. But make a big deal of it if it comes on its own. If it starts to come, and gets distracted on the way to you, a couple of goog tugs on the leash, ( say the dogs name and give the command again) to get its attention should be enough to get it back on track. Soon enough it will figure out which is the lessor of the two evils. Coming is much more fun than being reeled in and having to do it all over again. I dont use treats when training, because I want the dog to come to me, not for a treat, but that is a personal decision. Dont give your dog more distractions than it can handle, and progress with the distractions as the dog begins to be capable of handling more and more of it. In other words, dont give them a sensory overload. Start with a couple of distractions at a time and build on that. The pup is only nine moths old. Certinly, in more capapable hands, such as a person who has trained many a dog, a pup of 9 months should already be mastering all these commands. Where you are both just learning, take it easy, and slow. Make sure that one command is mastered and consistant before moving on to another. Its more imperritive that the dog be trained, as opposed to it being off lead. If it cant be off lead playing in the park,( which it shouldnt be till it is trained) then make several short training sessions a day fun. I assure you, the dog will much more appreciate the time spent with you interacting, than mindlessly running a muck in the park, and it will stregthen your relationship. Good luck, and I hope others will chime in, as there are more ways then one, and this board is famous for showing just that very thing.

[jfaircloth]

Well, first off, you dont have "recall issues", you simply dont have a recall on your dog. Yes, it comes when called in the yard, and in the house, because it knows its name, and theres nothing going on thats extreamly excieting at the moment, so when it hears you, it comes in hopes that you may have something for it. Thats not a recall.

...Certinly, in more capapable hands, such as a person who has trained many a dog, a pup of 9 months should already be mastering all these commands.

 

Ouch. I appreciate your candor and your suggestions, but I do need to correct a couple of your assumptions. First of all, he DOES come when he's called in the yard when there are distractions...i.e., our neighbors' dogs, playing with our other dog. His sit-stay is solid; his down-stay needs a bit of work but he's a 9-month-old rescue who had NO training before we got him 6 weeks ago. He had never even been on a leash. So please don't assume he's not in "capable" hands. We've tried the long lead training, but not praising him if we have to reel him in is probably the mistake we've been making. So thanks so much for that wisdom and we will continue to work at it.

[1sheepdoggal]

And your answer is the exact reason why I very seldom post answers to "Help me" posts anymore, no matter how text book I try to keep them. Perhaps its not so much what you are doing, but your timing. But since you are capable of knowing what to do, I'll just say good luck with your pup, and I hope some one on here can give you the answers that your looking for.

[Ninso]

Hi,

 

Here are some recall tips in an archived thread you can take a look at: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=6033

 

To my mind, if you've only had him for six weeks and he will come when called even with other dogs playing in the backyard, that's a pretty good recall, especially for a 9mo pup who is entering adolescence. I think the key to a great recall in any situation is just to practice, practice, practice in all sorts of situations. Also, never let him ignore a recall. This takes a bit of strategizing on your part, because if you have a feeling he will ignore the command, you shouldn't give it--if you need him, just go get him. The dog park is a very distracting environment, far more distracting than a yard that he is familiar with so it is a pretty huge step to expect a solid recall there. What I would do is stop calling him at the park. If he comes to you on his own, reward him, whether with treats, praise, or even just a command to go play again. Until his recall is solid, just go to him when its time to go rather than calling him. As he gets more reliable, you can start calling him again. Don't just call him when its time to go home. Call him periodically throughout the time at the park and then just release him to go play again. If it were me, I would probably stop going to the dog park until I had practiced the recall in less distracting environments and built a more solid bond so that the dog would come check in with me once in awhile. But that's just me--I've had my dog five months and we haven't gone yet, partially because he's not real big on playing with other dogs and I have ample space in my backyard to play with him.

 

I think like so many other things, its just a matter of patience, consistency and making it fun for your dog. Good Luck!

[1sheepdoggal]

Hmmm. Pretty much just what I said, I guess I just need to get better at sugar coating things when I say them. Maybe a smily icon or two.

[Ninso]

Darci,

 

I don't know you at all. so I hope you don't take offense at this. You had very good advice in your post, but especially on a message board where there is no context to people's comments and people don't know each other personally, comments such as "in more capable hands the dog should already be able to do this stuff" can come off as really abrasive. I think we've all seen seemingly innocuous comments get blown out of proportion on these boards. You just have to be extra careful.

 

I'm not the best trainer in the world and I know it - I've only had and trained two dogs of my own. I'm sure OP is not the best trainer in the world either, and I'm sure the OP knows that, particuarly since he/she is asking for help. Nobody needs to have their nose rubbed in their lack of experience. I don't call that sugar-coating, I just call it showing a little respect. Again, I doubt you meant to offend anyone and I'm sure just wanted to help. You seemed to take offense at the OP's offense, so I just thought I would explain.

[Jedismom]

This is for sheepdoggal. Thanks for your detailed post. Jedi is not consistent in some areas yet and I appreciate reading about the different ways of doing things. I hope you keep posting because there are people reading these that appreciate the info.

[Little Bo Boop]

Hmmm. Pretty much just what I said, I guess I just need to get better at sugar coating things when I say them. Maybe a smily icon or two.

 

 

Or perhaps you might try being just a bit less condescending in your posts? I imagine most people asking for help don't like to be treated as if they're some kind of training dolt....

 

 

I'll take a stab at it ;-) I don't use a long line to teach a recall, at least I've not had to use one so far, and I also don't usually have a solid or any actually, down or sit or stay on my dog before I have recall on them. The recall is the first thing I try to get on my dogs, and I start from day one. Everytime I take them out, no matter for what reason I practice recalls. Very excited call their name, prasie hell out of them when they come, repeat. I start out at a short distance, gradually extending it till they're pretty consistant. I also start out with a whistle, and blow a recall (they actually seem to respond better to the whistle most of the time) When distractions are introduced, (like sheep ;-) ) your dog may lose a bit of its recall. When this happens I will call the dog, if it ignores me, I'll growl, as soon as it looks like its going to come to you, praise like hell...you may have to do this a few times, but if you're consistant (key), they usually figure it out pretty quick. Good luck with your pup ;-)

 

Betty

[1sheepdoggal]

No offence taken Ninso, though I didnt feel that I was being rude or disresepctful. Simply honest. Though abrassive is a word used in the past to describe how I explain things, so it wasnt a shock to me to find that it had happened again. The Op didnt mention in the first post that they had only had the dog for 6 weeks either, so it is easy to figure theyve had the dog long enough to have already jumped some of the hurdles they are encountering with the dog now.

 

Thank you Jedismom. I never quit posting, I just stay more in the working stockdog section nowadays, where folks are a little more thick skinned, and understand things a little differently when you say them. I dont have the tact alot of posterds do, so I try to stay away from a lot of posts like this one. Its just that no one had answered this one and it had been quite awhile since it was originally posted, so I thought Id help. Funny, as I was posting, a couple of others were too. Back under my rock.

[jfaircloth]

No offence taken Ninso, though I didnt feel that I was being rude or disresepctful. Simply honest. Though abrassive is a word used in the past to describe how I explain things, so it wasnt a shock to me to find that it had happened again. The Op didnt mention in the first post that they had only had the dog for 6 weeks either, so it is easy to figure theyve had the dog long enough to have already jumped some of the hurdles they are encountering with the dog now.

 

Thank you Jedismom. I never quit posting, I just stay more in the working stockdog section nowadays, where folks are a little more thick skinned, and understand things a little differently when you say them. I dont have the tact alot of posterds do, so I try to stay away from a lot of posts like this one. Its just that no one had answered this one and it had been quite awhile since it was originally posted, so I thought Id help. Funny, as I was posting, a couple of others were too. Back under my rock.

 

Thanks to everyone--including sheepdoggal--for your suggestions. Any and all suggestions, ideas, etc., are much appreciated. No smiley faces necessary. Sorry I got anyone's dander up.

[Ali C]

Maybe right now, since you're both so new to each other, the dog park is not a doable thing. If he's doing well at home with multiple distractions, but can't yet do what you ask at the park, then just keep on with what he is successful at. Can he drag a cord/line at the park? If he can, I wouldn't even call him at the park, just get a hold of him on the line, and maybe recall him when you know you have his mind. I was thinking that maybe you could do something that many of us do with pups when teaching a recall off stock. Recall him to you a few times while he's playing, praise him when he comes, then let him go right back to playing. This way he does not immediately assume the fun is over just because you've called him. It will lessen the "I'm gonna beat you at this" idea in his head, while still understanding if he's called he's to come, no matter what.

I agree with the posters who said they do not use food or such for recalls. My dogs are taught to come because I said so, not because I may or may not have something wonderful for them. Surely a kind word and a touch, but beyond that I tend to think one's getting into begging... I was explaining this to someone the other day and laughed when I told her I know that I have muttered to a dog or two that wasn't listening "AYE, that was NOT a request!" In the beginning I do whatever leg work is needed. If I call a pup and he does not "hear" me, then the ball is now in my court and I have to fetch the pup up (without calling or fussing), get his attention and usually get a couple, real short recalls before he's allowed to go back to what he was doing. I am not ugly about it, but I am also no fun if I have to fetch a pup I called. They quickly learn this and in my experience tend to choose coming to me vs me coming to them! If the dog park is the only place he doesn't hear you, then you can either go to him and remind him a recall is a recall wherever we are, or you can decide the dog park isn't something you guys can do- at least right now. As I'm sure you know, the more times he successfully "beats" you at the park the worse it will get.

 

Ali Curtis

[Ruger's Dad]

I would be listening to 1sheepdoggal. I taught Ruger recall using the long line. For him it took exactly once. However, it was during our frisbee sessions. He learned at that one try that if he brings me the frisbee back it gets thrown again.

 

If you don't have recall at the dog park, take her advice at the root of the problem. Long line your dog at the park. What a great way to work obedience with all the distractions. Working recall with a long line would be easy under those circumstances. You have control. The same would go for the heel, sit, and stay work as well.

 

I have never had recall problems with Ruger at the park. The reason, he goes there to play frisbee. Other dogs just get in his way and are a nuisance. He is all business. I have seen other dogs similar to him but not the degree of intensity. I would bet your dog would change if you took him there with a job other than chasing other dogs.

 

One more thing, keep the training sessions short. Time is on your side so don't get frustrated. Always end on a positive note.

[gypsy84]

Great advice already given here. I wholeheartedly support the long line idea, since it can help you correct your dog when you are nowhere near it - just watch out for tangles in legs... canine or human

 

Also, you might want to try going to the dog park during off times, when it's empty of other people & dogs. My Gypsy is ADDICTED to dogs, she seriously loves them. Teaching her a solid recall took a looooooot of hard work and practice, but it sure paid off. Just having the smells left behind in an empty park will provide some distraction, but not to the level of a pack of 10 dogs whipping past when you're trying to focus your dog.

 

Good luck

[jfaircloth]

Thanks everyone!!

 

I did some long-line work with him last night and it seemed like a lightbulb finally came on after I had to reel him in a couple of times and he didn't get any praise for it. We do like taking him to the park because of the tremendous amount of exercise he gets there, but I do agree that it's best to keep him away, at least during peak usage times, until we get this issue under control. I like the idea of a long line at the park, but it would only work when there aren't so many dogs there...I'd hate to get other dogs tangled up in his lead.

 

As always, this board is the best. Thank you thank you thank you.

[MyMace]

Or perhaps you might try being just a bit less condescending in your posts? I imagine most people asking for help don't like to be treated as if they're some kind of training dolt....

I'll take a stab at it ;-) I don't use a long line to teach a recall, at least I've not had to use one so far, and I also don't usually have a solid or any actually, down or sit or stay on my dog before I have recall on them. The recall is the first thing I try to get on my dogs, and I start from day one. Everytime I take them out, no matter for what reason I practice recalls. Very excited call their name, prasie hell out of them when they come, repeat. I start out at a short distance, gradually extending it till they're pretty consistant. I also start out with a whistle, and blow a recall (they actually seem to respond better to the whistle most of the time) When distractions are introduced, (like sheep ;-) ) your dog may lose a bit of its recall. When this happens I will call the dog, if it ignores me, I'll growl, as soon as it looks like its going to come to you, praise like hell...you may have to do this a few times, but if you're consistant (key), they usually figure it out pretty quick. Good luck with your pup ;-)

 

Betty

 

thanks for this post...my mace has recently regressed drastically on his recall...but i don't like the idea of using a long line either, that's just too easy for him...no problems there...

i'm going to try the growl technique today! or imitating my husband's voice...lol...since he ALWAYS comes to him...