Runners

[frenchy2999]

When we got our new house first thing we knew we both wanted was a dog. Then we had to decide what kind of Dog…. I’m a runner, did a few marathons many half marathons and can pile up a lot of mileage in a week. We always liked BC but knowing that they would make very good running companion helped our decision. We got our little girl and I haven’t really pushed her much into it yet. Vet said no more than 20 minutes until she is 1 year old. She’s 51/2 months now and all I do is a few minutes with her so she slowly gets used to follow me nicely. Rest of activity is normal play time with little brother BC and started fly ball

 

I was just curious to hear about other runners and how much can adult dogs actually do? On big training weeks I can run 90+ kilometres. Average weeks more like 50-60 kilometres. Given that I slowly introduce her to it when she is all grown up and increase slowly; will she ever be able to do 20+kilometres runs with me on my long weekend run? Or is that really too much for a dog and risk injuries?

 

Just curious to hear from other runners out there

Cheerios

[WAKing]

My last dog, a BC x Aussie Shepherd, would come to work with me out in the bush. I would usually hike about 10 km in about 5-6hours of work, this is in rugged terrain. She would zoom back and forth all day, I figure she would cover 3-4 times more ground than me.

 

I think as long as you feed her high energy, quality food it will be fine. Although I never had her running on paved ground so that might make a difference.

[MaggieDog]

Remember, dogs aren't full grown until between 18mo and 2 years of age, not just a year like most people assume, so you'll have a while before running is a major issue. My guidelines tend to be letting the dog set the distance - if they start slowing down, being reluctant on the run/walk, or show any signs of lameness or pain of any sort, I cut them back until they resume normal behavior.

 

With the amount of running you're talking about I would be sure to have you vet check your pups hips and elbows before starting major distances to be sure there are no problems and see if growth plates are closed as well.

[silhouettestable]

I don't know much of anything about the speed or terrain when you train for marathons, but here's an example of what dogs are capable of when they're fit and conditioned. The following information is the results from the mid-distance classes at some of the dogsled races I go to, listed in hours, minutes, seconds, a combined time from 2 days. (No, I don't compete in these ones, I have dogs in training for next year's 4-mile sprint races) These times are generally a combined time from running the same distance 2 days in a row.

 

6 Dog Mid-Distance (25 miles)

1 Paul Boudreau 1:58:25

2 Scott Shaw 2:03:22

3 Paul-Andre Chariebois 2:05:00

4 Andrew Zollner 2:06:39

5 Genevieve Telmosse 2:12:20

6 Denis Tremblay 2:12:39

7 Lisa Ferris 2:18:34

8 David Punch 2:18:55

9 Derrick Spafford 2:19:31

10 Shane Cox 2:21:12

11 Derek Stein 2:24:25

12 Eli Golton 2:27:59

13 Deb Knight 2:38:00

14 Jim Cunningham 2:49:35

15 Gavin Baker 3:07:19

 

8 Dog (40 miles)

1 Rene Marchildon 5:29:38

2 Jacob Golton 6:11:15

3 Scott Shaw 6:14:49

4 Janice Erker 6:23:35

5 Ray Erker 6:44:51

6 Eli Golton 6:48:53

7 Ken Golton 6:53:59

9 Deb Knight 7:06:26

8 Shane Cox 7:06:53

10 John Miller 7:39:06

11 Shawn McNeil 7:49:24

12 David Punch 9:01:23

 

8 Dog (40 miles)

1 Rene Marchildon 5:44:41

2 Herve Belanger 5:50:00

3 Bruce Langmaid 5:50:31

4 Jake Golton 5:57:22

5 Scott Shaw 6:08:17

6 Keri Rutherford 6:23:59

7 Janice Erker 6:55:19

8 Ken Golton 6:55:47

9 Shane Cox 6:56:29

10 Robert St. Onge 7:00:26

11 Eli Golton 7:03:20

12 Shawn McNeil 7:44:59

13 Andy Mika 8:52:13

 

10 Dog Mid-Distance (120 miles) this one they do 60 miles/day

1 Rene Marchildon 9:01:25

2 Bruce Langmaid 9:17:09

3 Stephen Duplessis 9:19:02

4 Normand Casavant 9:23:20

5 Jake Golton 10:26:54

6 Hank DeBruin 13:57:32

 

They go out and run the same course two days in a row and combine the times (same distance twice, not half each day). At least I think that's the way the mid-distance races are run. I know for certain that's the way the sprint classes work (4, 6 and 8 mile sprints). They race the same distance each day and combine the times for the final results. (4 miles x 2, 6 miles x 2, 8 miles x 2) Mushers generally talk in miles, not km, so your average 50-90km in a week would be nothing to a well conditioned racing dog. Also taking into consideration of course your feeding program (mushers feed high energy feeds and often supplement with meat - high protein, high fat diets), and the dogs joints and feet, when running on harder ground. Many mushers also do dryland training as well though, using bikes, scooters, 3 wheeled rigs, or ATV's, depending on the number of dogs they're working. Training times are usually limited to when the weather's cool so the dogs don't overheat or get slow and lazy. Sometimes training is done in early morning or late evening in the dark to catch the coolest part of the day. I've heard that feeding a zinc supplement will help to toughen the pads, and of course there's always the option of using booties.

 

Here's one more set of results, this one is from a one day race so the time you see is how long it took to run the dogs that distance just once, rather than combined from two days.

8 Dog (50 miles)

1 Shawn Akins 3:43:17

2 Jake Golton 3:45:16

3 Marty Shaw 4:01:15

4 Ian MacKenzie 4:11:40

5 Ray Erker 4:14:15

6 Shane Cox 4:16:11

7 Janice Erker 4:17:20

8 Thomas Pride 4:19:30

9 Eli Golton 4:34:08

10 Andy Mika 4:54:16

11 Deb Knight 5:08:52

12 Gavin Baker 6:43:44

[Greylite]

My last dog, a BC x Aussie Shepherd, would come to work with me out in the bush. I would usually hike about 10 km in about 5-6hours of work, this is in rugged terrain. She would zoom back and forth all day, I figure she would cover 3-4 times more ground than me.

 

I think as long as you feed her high energy, quality food it will be fine. Although I never had her running on paved ground so that might make a difference.

My two boys are the same way. They'll go all day at if you let them. Don't over do it though with a pup. My boys weren't ready at such a young age. Let them mature first. I wouldn't take that young of a dog out running.

[juliepoudrier]

I would think your location and the weather conditions would have a large impact on whether your dog can do the distance. As Sillouhette Stable pointed out, the information she gave is for dogs running in winter in snow. Also note that those are *teams* of dogs, so there is some lightening of the load as a result of there being a larger number of animals to spread it over, although I think the example was more to illustrate the distances the dogs were able to cover. Still I'd wonder if a single dog would be able to go as far as a team, but since I'm not a musher, I don't know the answer to that question.

 

In the examples of the dogs covering many greater miles than their humans, note that these dogs could stop and start at will and so even though they ranged over greater miles, they were not going "full force" the entire time, but were able to pace themselves. That makes a huge difference, IMO. Even working dogs "on the hill" have periods of relatively light work/rest in among the harder work.

 

I wouldn't do any really long distances until the dog is closer to two years old. As someone else suggested, I would have an orthopedist evaluate radiographs of her hips and other joints to make sure the is physically sound enough to put in the kind of mileage you do. Then work her up slowly. Remember that most border collies are very stoic dogs who will continue even when in pain, and dogs have been known to work themselves *to death* in bad weather conditions (generally extreme heat/humidity). You will need to be a very careful observer of your dog to make sure that she's not running through pain or pushing herself beyond her limits to stay up with your running schedule.

 

Border collies can make fantastic running partners. Just be sure that you are very aware of her health and her limits and that you don't push her beyond them.

 

ETA: I have an obsessive circler/runner who will be 10 at the end of this year. He is a real hard body and thin as a rail (but well muscled). I would imagine that in the course of a day, he puts in quite a few miles running, but he also takes breaks, and has ready access to water (a kiddie pool as well as clean drinking water) at all times. He clearly paces himself, takes breaks, gets water, etc. I do notice that he comes up lame with more frequency than he used to. Despite quite obvious lameness he will keep running if allowed. I would certainly make sure there is water available along your running route, or at least carry some with you and make sure your dog can drink. It may require a quick break in your run, but better to be safe for the dog's health....

 

J.

[Pearse]

I wouldn't run a dog on pavement much before they are 1 yr old at least, and no 20km runs until they are 18 - 24 mos.

 

After that, they'll train up faster than a human will. 50 - 60 km / week will be no problem for an adult dog and they have no problem going 20km at a stretch especially if the pace is such that they can trot. I have two dogs that will trot up close to a 7 min/mile pace and one that starts to lope at much over 9 min/mile. The one that has to lope tires quicker.

 

Cold is no problem. I don't run much when the combined temp/wind chill goes below -25C but even at -35C, I haven't seen the dogs have any problems.

 

Heat is a bigger issue. I don't take the dogs when the heat gets up over 90F. They've worked sheep at hotter temps than that but for 15-20 minutes at a stretch. At lower than 90F, as long as you have water and take the odd break to check on them, stop and cool them off if they start to lag you should be OK at speeds 7-8 min/mile and an hour or less of running time. Mostly I try to run early morning or late evening is summer so it isn't as much of an issue. These are fit trained dogs and pretty lean. I've seen dogs walking in the park (not running) in the summer time that are close to heat stroke so you need to be really attentive because it can happen really quickly. The other problem in summer is hot blacktop. That can scald a dog's feet. Parking lots are the worst and I've had to carry dogs back to the car rather than let them walk across a parking lot in mid-summer.

 

Pearse

[lrayburn]

There was a man interviewed in Runner's World just a couple of months ago who trains for marathons with his BCs and one of them finished a marathon with him. However, during training and a part of the race his dogs were able to run offleash. If you are running where your dog can be offleash and can choose to run on dirt or grass, your dog (after the age of two and with appropriate conditioning) should be able to go the distance with you. If the dog has to run onleash, pavement or if your weather is hot, limit your dog to your shorter runs.

 

My dogs love to run with me but one of them absolutely hates run onleash and bucks up after a mile or two even though she will run for hours offleash. Onleash is a totally different thing because they can't slow and then sprint which is a more normal mode for them. (And they have to ignore all of the good sniffy stuff along the road.) They love to run and play when I do track intervals - they play in the football field inside the track and check-in when they like. If you have a good track, that is something she could do now - hang out in the infield while you do speed work.

 

I'm in the mountains of western NC where the weather is pretty moderate - if you have a lot of heat and humidity, the dog may not do as well. When you first get started, set up your run so you run from the house for a short loop with the dog, when you pass the house again, drop off the dog and go for the rest of your run as you gradually up the speed and mileage. At the beginning, make sure you are ending the run before the dog starts to visibly tire to keep them motivated and healthy.

 

Ben completed a 5-mile charity race with me last year. If I could have kept up with him, I would have won my class and then some!

 

Lisa

[Sasha's Mom]

I run with my 4, and slowly trained the first 3 up to distance. Here in Florida, we definitely run into more of a problem with the heat. I love to run when it's hot, and don't mind a sweltering 99F run at noon. (Yeah, I'm crazy, and I like to sweat - makes me feel like I'm accomplishing something. That, and I HATE running when my throat and ears are cold.) Note that I don't run when it's that hot often- but I work rotating shifts, and sometimes, midafternoon is the only time I can get a run in.

 

I don't take them for more than 2 miles each if it's above 85, always carry water for them above 90, and no more than 1 mile each then. We also have a canal to jump in if we go a certain way. And a doggy pool to jump in when we get home.

 

I can still manage to get in a long run (10-13 mi) if I take them individually, but I do varying loops in and around our big neighborhood.

 

We're buying some acreage in the country soon, which will change our running style... I working on my newest girl who is only 12-18 months old. (We don't exactly know), and she lets me know. Often I take her for 2 miles, take the 2 other girls 2 miles together (BC and lab), and then take my old GSD and little BC for one more slow mile. I'm not fast, so it's a trot for them for the most part. And lots of sniffing fun.

 

Danielle, Nik, Sasha, Sassy and Zoe

[silhouettestable]

Also note that those are *teams* of dogs, so there is some lightening of the load as a result of there being a larger number of animals to spread it over, although I think the example was more to illustrate the distances the dogs were able to cover. Still I'd wonder if a single dog would be able to go as far as a team, but since I'm not a musher, I don't know the answer to that question.

J.

 

It's true that the more dogs pulling the load, the less drag on any one dog, and some dogs will also rest while running (slack off their tugs and just keep pace without pulling hard). However, I think that under the right conditions (cool enough temps) any one of those dogs could still go the distance with a runner since no matter how hard they do or don't pull in harness they are still running the same distance. Even if they are a slacker (or floater as they are sometimes called), and run with a loose tug line they are running just as far as their teammates, just not working as hard. Accompanying a runner "should" be a much easier run for a dog that's used to pulling since they would be free running without anything behind them. That being said though, the dogs I'm talking about run in cold temperatures (typically not above 10 C/50 F) and wouldn't last anywhere near those distances in the heat, and especially the humidity. Some of the heavy coated northern breeds will begin to overheat as they approach the upper end of their working temperature range. Even though my own dogs are mostly bc's and bc mixes, and not thick coated dogs I don't train them when the weather gets too mild. Even if I train in the morning in the springtime I find that they will loose speed and tire more quickly as the days begin to get milder. I don't want to teach them to run slow or slack so I exercise them in other ways in the hotter weather - free running around the farm, frisbee, agility, swimming etc. I personally hate the heat and can't wrap my head around the idea of running with or without dogs in the Florida heat or any similar place I'd melt.

[frenchy2999]

Thanks all for your responses

 

I'm in Australia but not much for the heat myself, in Summer I run in very early morning and we get pretty fresh Winters where I am. I will be taking this very slow and easy with her until she's old enough. She's a wonderfull girl we love her dearly, the last thing I would want to do is to hurt her in any way

 

Cheers!